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Cox Engine of The Month
February-2024
1/2A Nut's

"RC Speed Boat Power Drive TD .020"

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Post  sosam117 Thu 7 Dec 2023 - 20:17


I have a friend that wants to know what the usual run times are for a Cox Pee Wee engine with the stock (Red) tank?
I don't think the tank color matters. Just a stock Pee Wee fuel tank (3cc size?)

No special fuels --- nothing special at all --- just a stock Pee Wee engine on stock fuel?

Thanks,
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Post  rdw777 Thu 7 Dec 2023 - 20:49

Mike, Mine run 90-120 sec depending on needle setting (24% nitro fuel, Cox 4.5 x 2 prop)…
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Post  sosam117 Fri 8 Dec 2023 - 2:08

rdw777 wrote:Mike, Mine run 90-120 sec depending on needle setting (24% nitro fuel, Cox 4.5 x 2 prop)…

What is the average flight time (gliding) for the replica 020 planes?

Thanks.
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Post  706jim Fri 8 Dec 2023 - 3:33

It's been many years since I ran my 0.020's but they would get just about 2 minutes on the stock 2cc tank. I used to put 0.4cc into the tank for free flight in a small field. Somewhere in these forums is my story about the salvaged Pee Wee that ran out a whole tank in windy conditions. 51 years later I still don't know where it landed.
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Post  batjac Fri 8 Dec 2023 - 3:56

sosam117 wrote:
I have a friend that wants to know what the usual run times are for a Cox Pee Wee engine with the stock (Red) tank?

About 20 minutes a decade.

The Smart A Mark
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Post  GallopingGhostler Fri 8 Dec 2023 - 5:33

When I was flying single channel, I was getting about 1.5 minutes with a Cox 4.5x2 prop, about 2.5 minutes with a Top Flite 5.25x3 white nylon.

A little off topic, but the 5.25x3 became my prop of choice because the Pee Wee could handle it and with reduced RPM gave me longer flight times at same speed through the air. Also, it was rugged and didn't shatter as easily as the Cox gray competition props (the only other prop available to me at the time.) Being notoriously out of balance, I carefully sanded the back side of the heavier blade until it balanced. That was the key to making it run well with a larger prop.

Some say the Pee Wee is a downsized copy of the Babe Bee. Actually with its SPI dual intake bypass port cylinder, a better comparison is a downsized Black Widow. That was the secret to its powerful nature, upsetting some of the older .049's of the time being more powerful.
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Post  rdw777 Fri 8 Dec 2023 - 13:45

What is the average flight time (gliding) for the replica 020 planes?


Mike, My replica Ace R/C Guppy will easily glide three minutes or so
(with no thermal help) after the engine quits and that’s with a cheapie toy glider wing….It weighs 6.5 oz. or about 185 grams….At that weight the .020 will pull it up about as high as I can see it by the time it runs out of fuel….. If the replicas you are referring to are Old Timers they would beat Guppy’s glide time pretty good with a better wing….

Guppy’s engine is an early model thin wall cylinder that was bent when I got it but
706jim graciously repaired it…. Still runs great to this day Thumbs Up

Cox 020 Pee Wee average motor run time? Aa546310

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Post  1/2A Nut Fri 8 Dec 2023 - 19:22

Cox yellow 4.5x4 extended Jordan's flight time due to reduced rpm.



Feb 8, 2018
Jordan Kearney / New Zealand
Pee Wee .020 Est. 5.5cc external tank run.
20/20/60 fuel
Nano style- all balsa with ply firewall


Small Cox Logo  RC Plane Rudolph Santa Christmas Tree Snowman Lighting The Tree
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Post  706jim Fri 8 Dec 2023 - 22:48

1/2A Nut wrote:Cox yellow 4.5x4 extended Jordan's flight time due to reduced rpm.



Feb 8, 2018
Jordan Kearney / New Zealand
Pee Wee .020 Est. 5.5cc external tank run.
20/20/60 fuel
Nano style- all balsa with ply firewall


Small Cox Logo  RC Plane Rudolph Santa Christmas Tree Snowman Lighting The Tree

It's amazing that your little plane could fly that fast with such a tiny engine. BTW will be visiting NZ in February first time since 1989.
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Post  rdw777 Sat 9 Dec 2023 - 0:11

Cox yellow 4.5x4 extended Jordan's flight time due to reduced rpm.

Nice match up of air frame  and prop….The plane has to be pretty sleek for the PeeWee to pull that prop like that….PeeWee’s can be little sleepers IMO Small Cox Logo RC Plane
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Post  sosam117 Sat 9 Dec 2023 - 1:27

This is what I have completed and flown in the last 2 months:

I have completed the Dixielander with R/C gear installed. (modified BMJR Dixielander kit)
Cox 020 Pee Wee average motor run time? Uc0txb10


Electric equipment is:
Innov8tive designs outrunner motor 2800kv (Cobra C-2203/28 Brushless Motor, Kv=2800, E36-F1S as used for electric free flight).
I am using a 4x4 GWS prop.

The event we are deciding on the rules, (so far) does not allow for a folding prop (SAM Replica Event) like having a Pee Wee engine on the front but replaced by an electric motor.
2 cell lipo pack --- size and capacity not specified as the fuse on each plane will be different (whatever fits but has to be 2 cell pack)
Span has to be 36 inches (Replica type rules)
Currently motor run time is 2 minutes with a total flight time of 10 minutes.

Anyway:
The Dixielander equipment:
Servos are Hitec HS-35HD Ultra Nano servos which just fit inside the fuse.
Castle Creations 15amp controller and a 2 cell 400 lipo pack.
Covering is from FAI -- clear mylar ¼ mil covering on the tail area and 1 mil on the wing.
Lightly sprayed black paint on the bottom of the wing for visibility.
Long tail moment, so I had to find a 2-cell pack that would balance the plane at the correct location.

Increased the wing incidence by ½ a degree (about 3/32 wedge on the bottom of the pylon) from what was in the kit.
As for side thrust -- I have 4 degrees (right) and down thrust is 2 degrees.
All up weight, ready to fly is 7.8 oz

It climbs very well on ½ throttle and is out of sight (almost) in 90 seconds.
Cox 020 Pee Wee average motor run time? K11t9610

Gliding time is over 9 minutes without any thermals.

SAM is looking at the Replica event to hopefully spark new (younger) members.
As there were many years ago Replica 020kits out there and the AMA has a E-36 (electric) event as well.

So,
That is the reason why I asked this question.

Thanks for all of the help and inputs.

M. McIntyre
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Post  rdw777 Sat 9 Dec 2023 - 17:41

Sounds like an interesting event Mike…. And very nice Dixielander…fantastic glide times!!…. You’ve shared span and weight…. What’s the wing sq. in.?…. Must be a very light (and efficient) wing load to glide that well ….
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Post  sosam117 Sat 9 Dec 2023 - 21:58

rdw777 wrote: Sounds like an interesting event Mike…. And very nice Dixielander…fantastic glide times!!…. You’ve shared span and weight…. What’s the wing sq. in.?. Must be a very light (and efficient) wing load to glide that well ….

Wing area is 189 sq. inches
Stab area is 78.75 sq. inches

Under camber airfoil looks to be something like an RF-32 airfoil?

The plane balances on the beginning of the 1/2" size trailing edge.
So, it is 1/2" up from the edge of the wings T.E.

Extended the nose of the fuselage 1-3/4" for two reasons.
1.) I knew it needed the nose extended to get it balanced with the extra wood to add the needed wood for control surfaces.
2.) To make room to move the servos in front of the pylon and not have the weight of the servos adding more weight to the tail.
The servos would have been behind the balance point (trailing edge).

Gave the fuselage just 2 coats of dope. 1st one was to seal the wood and sand off the fuzz when it dried.
Then the 2nd coat for a good water-resistant coat. I fly in the morning with dew on the grass.
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Post  rdw777 Sun 10 Dec 2023 - 17:26

Thanks for the details Mike, Sounds like a well thought out and set up plane… With the far rear balance point the stab will carry a good bit of the load too….Guppy’s wing load is a bit more plus a weird airfoil…. The plan has a built up wing included…. Maybe I’ll build it one of these days Thumbs Up
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Post  sosam117 Mon 11 Dec 2023 - 3:44

rdw777 wrote:Thanks for the details Mike, Sounds like a well thought out and set up plane… With the far rear balance point the stab will carry a good bit of the load too….Guppy’s wing load is a bit more plus a weird airfoil…. The plan has a built up wing included…. Maybe I’ll build it one of these days Thumbs Up

I remember the Guppy from ACE, along with all of the other items that ACE had.
Variable chargers which I still have and use as an example of their product line years ago.

Another good company gone.

An interesting note ----- Stefan Graupner has started his own company ------- SG Modelbau
Here is his website:
https://sg-modellbau.de/en
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon 11 Dec 2023 - 4:29

I remembered the comments by Tom Runge of Ace R/C. Unfortunately, they could not purchase electronic parts, particularly the special components required in the transmitter section and RF receiver section cheap enough to compete with then Japanese imports, Futaba, etc. Thus, they could not continue in production, ditto with Phil Kraft, Cannon, Heathkit, etc. Protectionism by import tarrifs unfortunately were not used by the US federal government to level the playing field.

The plane kits and foam wings was an outgrowth of their earlier radio sales. The foam wings have a semi-symmetrical airfoil similar to the Goldberg planes such as the Falcons, Skylarks and Cessna Skylanes. It is said to have better wind penetration than the standard flat bottom Modified Clark-Y airfoils.

The 35 inch untapered Ace wing, with modification to the cabin wing saddle to fit its bottom profile would make a good wing for the Sterling Minnie Mambo.
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Post  ffkiwi Mon 11 Dec 2023 - 8:03

[quote="706jim"]
1/2A Nut wrote:Cox yellow 4.5x4 extended Jordan's flight time due to reduced rpm.

It's amazing that your little plane could fly that fast with such a tiny engine. BTW will be visiting NZ in February first time since 1989.



706Jim...get in touch when you're here.

ChrisM
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Post  sosam117 Mon 11 Dec 2023 - 13:24

GallopingGhostler wrote:I remembered the comments by Tom Runge of Ace R/C. Unfortunately, they could not purchase electronic parts, particularly the special components required in the transmitter section and RF receiver section cheap enough to compete with then Japanese imports, Futaba, etc. Thus, they could not continue in production, ditto with Phil Kraft, Cannon, Heathkit, etc. Protectionism by import tarrifs unfortunately were not used by the US federal government to level the playing field.

The plane kits and foam wings was an outgrowth of their earlier radio sales. The foam wings have a semi-symmetrical airfoil similar to the Goldberg planes such as the Falcons, Skylarks and Cessna Skylanes. It is said to have better wind penetration than the standard flat bottom Modified Clark-Y airfoils.

The 35 inch untapered Ace wing, with modification to the cabin wing saddle to fit its bottom profile would make a good wing for the Sterling Minnie Mambo.

My dad and I had the ACE High powered glider with a EK Logictrol 3 channel brick ( on 27mhz --- CB channel)
I still have the EK Logictrol 3 channel brick (and it still works but won't use it as radio interference is now really bad on it.)

Cox 020 Pee Wee average motor run time? Ek_lit12


And the later "newer" EK Ranger brick radio on 72mhz ( which still works also)
Cox 020 Pee Wee average motor run time? Ek_ran10
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon 11 Dec 2023 - 17:46

I hear you, @sosam117 , I bought a Hobby King transmitter conversion kit with TX module and receiver to change out the RF section of older digital radios to modern 2.4 GHz, just haven't installed it yet. A solution like that would permit reuse of the Logictrol transmitter, but of course would obsolete the receiver-servo brick. However, it would be eye catching for someone to see you putting it to use.

Out here, we haven't seen the CB interference, but Clovis is a little off the beaten trucker path. If I lived near a major interstate highway, then could be a problem.
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Post  sosam117 Tue 12 Dec 2023 - 13:31

GallopingGhostler wrote:I hear you, @sosam117 , I bought a Hobby King transmitter conversion kit with TX module and receiver to change out the RF section of older digital radios to modern 2.4 GHz, just haven't installed it yet. A solution like that would permit reuse of the Logictrol transmitter, but of course would obsolete the receiver-servo brick. However, it would be eye catching for someone to see you putting it to use.

Out here, we haven't seen the CB interference, but Clovis is a little off the beaten trucker path. If I lived near a major interstate highway, then could be a problem.

CB interference is not that much of a problem as it once was.
With cell phones and other, better technology, CB radio is not really used that much anymore.
In and around the Chicago area, Remote controlled (R/C) cranes have taken over the 27mhz and 72 MHz frequencies.

At my/our flying site, on 72 MHz, brown/white --- red/white --- blue/white and green/white are not usable.
And on the "old" R/C frequencies there are/were a total of seven channels that "were" allocated for R/C aircraft, but somehow remote cranes are seemingly "close" to those frequencies.
I had to change my frequency from what I had (blue/white -- 72.160) and changed to violet/white (72.320mhz).
My EK ranger "brick" is on that blue/white frequency.

So, when I changed to violet/white (72.320) I also went to using Airtronics radio, which later on (bought new set on 2.4 FHSS) I updated to the new 2.4mhz. band and never looked back.

I looked into converting the old radio gear (when I saw them at the Toledo Expo years ago) to update them, but with the cost of the upgrade (updating) over just purchasing a new transmitter, I thought it was a better option just to get the new transmitter which then would have a few more channels for the same cost.
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