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Post  RknRusty Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:10 pm

cribbs74 wrote:Rusty, from what I can gather the "X" is a performance designation however it never amounted to a whole lot. A Fox .36X is a combat designed engine. From what Ken has told me it's a real bruiser.
I thought maybe that was it. Never the less, the engine hunt is over. I just bought the Ball Bearing Thunder Tiger in the post above. Looks like a nice one, and as I understand it, should perform as well or better than the Fox.

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Post  Cribbs74 Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:33 pm

RknRusty wrote:
cribbs74 wrote:Rusty, from what I can gather the "X" is a performance designation however it never amounted to a whole lot. A Fox .36X is a combat designed engine. From what Ken has told me it's a real bruiser.
I thought maybe that was it. Never the less, the engine hunt is over. I just bought the Ball Bearing Thunder Tiger in the post above. Looks like a nice one, and as I understand it, should perform as well or better than the Fox.

Let me know how it goes. I went the Fox route. They were gifts. I have heard nothing, but good things about Foxes. I figure they have been in business since the 1940's and still sell new engines so they can't be all that bad. I'd say it's a 50/50 Fox users or other brands in the CL crowd. The Old time stunt guys love their Foxes, despite burps, crummy needles and bad plugs.

Ron
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Post  RknRusty Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:01 am

There are dozens of Foxes, plenty cheap on the Bay too. I could have had one for $35 plus $8 with a Buy It Now button. But I like the looks of the Thunder Tiger, and considering the source, I went with the one I knew i could trust. In the picture, the needle on the Tigger looks just like my Norvel fine thread ones... I wonder.

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Post  RknRusty Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:44 pm

New good news. The previous owner has a brand new fuse to give me at the club meeting Monday evening. I'll just make all new tail feathers and whatever other parts are needed. It will make a longer project, but a much nicer airframe. And I can dispense with that gawd-awful yellow junk. A nice lightweight paint and covering job, a new Thunder Tiger ball bearing hot rod engine, and I'll be in business.

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Post  Cribbs74 Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:53 pm

Good deal Rusty, the one I saw was red with cream wings. It looked great.

The new fuse was a stroke of good luck!

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Post  RknRusty Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:05 pm

cribbs74 wrote:Good deal Rusty, the one I saw was red with cream wings. It looked great.

The new fuse was a stroke of good luck!

Ron
No kidding, it'll be a new plane. I'm not a cream color guy though.

I've been trying to look up information on that Thunder Tiger Pro, but there's hardly anything about the .25 on the web. I found a manual on the ABN R/C version but not the ABC or any C/L version. Larger TTs seem to be really popular in cars and boats.

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Post  Mark Boesen Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:34 pm

Hi Rusty,
Yep, theres not a lot of info out there on them. Not to steer you away from us, but you might hit Stuka Stunt for info. It's C/L stunt, period, and theres a ton of set-up suggestions.

(0.7 hp @ 16,000 r.p.m.)

http://manuals.hobbico.com/ttr/pro-air-series-manual.pdf
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Post  Mark Boesen Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:43 pm

hey, how 'bout dark red and white with some black trim?
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Post  RknRusty Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:59 pm

Mark Boesen wrote:hey, how 'bout dark red and white with some black trim?
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I LIKE it! I was thinking of suggesting Bernie call his Garnet and Black Bee the Carolina Shaker, or the Gamecock. But nobody but me would get a kick out of it. Garnet and black on the Shoestring. I'll seriously think about it.

About the Thunder Tiger, the main thing I've been reading about is when, if ever it changed to ABN... or from ABN to ABC. The box says ABC, but there's major confusion because some say the sheet in the box says ABN. I was just trying to find a time when this might have changed and what it means to me as an engine owner. Yiiii!

Yep, that's the manual I downloaded that started my search.

And another thing, the NVA on yours looks like a Super Tigre NVA. In fact it looks just like the Driscoll F/T NVA I use on my Norvel.

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Post  Mark Boesen Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:10 am

It is a ST needle or at least a knock off, I mentioned that in the PM last night, also sent a spare.

I'm thinking 10x4 or 9x4 prop is the ticket.

Yep, the box says ABC...some say ABC is better, some say ABN is better, I don't think it really matters. What it is I really don't know, I'd guess and say ABC as that what it says on the box?

p.s.
years ago i did a Sig Banshee that kinda looked like a Gee Bee, white with red trim and Husker logos, it rocked!
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Post  pkrankow Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:13 am

The "hard" chrome plating is harder than the nickle plating. The aluminum piston supposedly wears out about when the nickle plating wears out, the chrome supposedly can go through a couple pistons before wearing through.

The brass of the liner won't hold up for long without the plating.

There are very few engines I have seen run this hard, or this much (let alone run one like that myself!). I don't think the difference is significant for most of us who fly a couple dozen days a year.

Phil
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Post  RknRusty Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:01 am

I'm going to need a strip of some lightweight fiberglass cloth, but I can only find medium everywhere I have searched. Anyone know where to get it, or what would be a good substitute. The plans refer to it as nylon. I also need to know what size the ply doublers on the nose are. I'm thinking 1/16". I can't see even an outline where they were applied to the original, but I haven't excavated yet.

Is this the stuff?
http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.exe/MainMenuFV5.html?E+Sig
EDIT: That link doesn't go to it. The part number is: SIGSH571

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Post  Mark Boesen Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:31 am

Opinions are like noses, everybodys got one. I'd repair the busted fuselage and go, save the new one for a second plane...that and I want see you flying ASAP!
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Post  Cribbs74 Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:35 am

Not a bad idea. That way if you wreck while getting used to the bigguns you will have a spare
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Post  pkrankow Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:48 am

Fiberglass cloth is measured in the weight per square yard. A 6 oz cloth weighs 6 oz per square yard, and is the standard weight for most applications such as full scale boats, car bodies, storm celler doors...

If you look under "fiberglass cloth" SIG offers 6 oz, 1.5 oz, .75 oz, and .56 oz. The .75 oz is probably what you want. You will need to cut it into strips, and stout shears are the most expedient means, but the shears won't last long. Trapping the cloth between a piece of metal bar and a cutting surface, then using a fresh, stout razor knife is probably better as the blade can be replaced.

When you cut it, cutting it diagonally will provide for stronger resistance to twisting, while not reducing the resistance to bending by much.

Phil

If you want to use nylon get some rip stop from the fabric store.
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Post  RknRusty Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:44 am

Thanks for the cloth info, Phil.

Man, you guys are making a real play on my wishy-washiness. I kind of want to fly the thing too. Then at least if I bust it again, I'll have some experience with it, being a new type plane to me and all. Y'all are my fun-compass. lol!
See I'm already rationalizing. A complete rebuild will be a Lot of work.

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Post  duke.johnson Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:03 pm

Rusty
You can't go wrong with that Thunder Tiger .25, a real great engine. And their hot.
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Post  Ken Cook Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:52 pm

I would be concerned with the weight. My Fox on my Shoestring with tongue muffler is weighing 6.85 oz's. A OS LA .25 without muffler weighs 8.30 oz's. A Magnum .25 ball bearing weighs in at 8 oz's no venturi no muffler or needle. The Magnum shares similarities to the Thunder Tigre.In all cases, the stock mufflers are USELESS for control line. They're going to add an immense amount of weight and they're going to cause problems in the engine run itself. They're too restrictive and they will only add to overheating and sagging of the engine. A tongue muffler will reduce weight and also allow for better flow. The Fox ball bearing .25 is the lightest ball bearing engine which weighs 7.8 oz's no muffler. The Mccoy .35 weighs in a 6.75 oz's.

The Goldberg Shoestring wasn't designed for modern engines. It's not that they wouldn't work, but you certainly are going to need a lot of extra tail weight to carry around. I see this frequently how the LA .25 for instance is considered the replacement for the Fox.35. These are two totally different engines with totally different characteristics and I for one know for a fact that a LA .25 on a Goldberg Shoestring isn't going to outrun a Fox.35 in performance. I've never seen a LA .25 swing a 10 x 6 for instance (at least not happily) and I certainly have never seen a LA .25 fly a 550+ sq inch airframe. Our speed limit stuff is 420 squares and weighing less than 24 oz's. The LA on these types of planes are running flat out with no power to spare and are slightly struggling. This is where I enjoy the ball bearing .25's as these have more than enough power to spare.

I've seen this at Brodak's over the past years as well. Yes, LA's have taken first place the past 2 years at Brodak's but this hasn't been with Goldberg kits. A new laser cut kit from either Brodak or Eric Rule has been the success due to the all up weight of these planes not exceeding 26 oz's. I would venture to say that a Goldberg plane even with a Fox .35 still weighs close to 33 oz's. if not more. Just something to think about when choosing engines. Ken
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Post  RknRusty Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:28 pm

So if I'm not mistaken, mine compares most closely with the Magnum. I have no need for a muffler except for my own ears. I've enjoyed using the muffled Norvel, because it's much quieter than my angry Tee Dee. I'd forgotten how much until I fired up the Li'l Satan at the field last week. But I can at least leave that off to help some. If it won't perform in its quick-repaired form, I'll go ahead and rebuild it with the new fuse. My Goldberg plans say it should not exceed an AUW of 30oz. I should be able to come in under that If it won't perform with that, I'll go back to the Fox. I was about to pull the trigger on one for $35+$8 the other night when the sexy TT snatched my attention. If I end up with a Fox on the Shoestring, I'll have to build another plane for the TT.

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Post  Ken Cook Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:53 pm

Rusty, I would think you should be able to use that engine. Just watch your balance which is why I listed the differences in engine weights. I've come across some porky examples and mine which I feel is average is weighing 28.5 oz's ready to go. My plane though has some heavy covering as I like to use this on my racing models. My posting of engines and weights was in regards to how the plane would fly in the event you wanted it to be maneuverable. I know you stated the original builder had a OS .40 on it. I was real curious as to which one seeing that most OS .40's for the most part weighs in at almost 10 oz's.

I've seen this done before where the model is powered with a large engine and once the power cuts it falls like a rock. If you have the ability to ditch the muffler, that will obviously keep the weight off the nose. My only other concerns would be the size venturi that's in the engine. Was this originally a R/C engine that's been converted? Ken
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Post  RknRusty Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:10 pm

No, my new TT is an CL engine. Mike may have been mistaken about the OS 40. The bolt holes are in the correct place for a Fox and should fit my Thunder Tiger too. When I saw it fly, he was doing nice circular loops and decent wingovers, and when the power cut it glided in for a pretty landing. Unfortunately for him, the next landing was unscheduled. I'll say this, when I held it for launch, it almost jerked itself loose from my grip. I had underestimated how hard the big thing would pull. I'm sure glad I managed to hang on.

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Post  Mark Boesen Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:37 pm

Hi Rusty,

No, it was a R/C engine, the venturi is the correct size. Like i had mentioned it saw action on a C/L plane and briefly on a R/C.
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Post  RknRusty Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:49 pm

Mark Boesen wrote:Hi Rusty,

No, it was a R/C engine, the venturi is the correct size. Like i had mentioned it saw action on a C/L plane and briefly on a R/C.
Ah, okay. I'm looking forward to playing with it.

Speaking of playing, I need to fly. If I can't sneak out to fly my little ones this Sunday, it'll be a couple of weeks before I get to fly. It's going to start getting windy soon, and won't dependably calm down before May.

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Post  RknRusty Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:09 pm

I used 3" bamboo sticks sharpened on each end and epoxy. the fuse is straight and the elevator and wing are lined up perfectly. I still have to pack the gaps with sawdust and more epoxy.

I'll patch the elevator with a basswood strip and mount the engine. I don't know if I have a big enough tank, but I'll rig something up for now and order a new wedge if I need it.

My Shoestring Stunter is RTF - Page 2 Repair10

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Not only that, but i got the tail feathers for the T-28 cut out. All except for the rear section of the rudder because I ran out of wood.


Last edited by RknRusty on Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post  Cribbs74 Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:12 pm

Awww man! Looking good. Love those Shoestrings. Not much longer now.
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