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Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

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Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  ian1954 on Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:04 pm

Is it a bug? I think so!

It starts with the simplicity of acquiring a classic vintage engine. Ironically, one of these



A Space Bug but more importantly a Cox Bug! This combined with such an informative forum accelerates the illness/addiction and this is fueled by comments, topics and articles constructed in such a way as to prevent cure!

WARNING! Do not continue reading unless you have developed an immunity, have an appropriate anti serum or have the will power to resist.

You acquire an engine and discover that there are different varieties. You see one that is better than the one you have, you find one that needs a little tender loving care ...................... The addiction begins.........



It gets out of control. It is reinforced by the smell of fuels, castor oil residues, Hoppes No 9, cleaning fluids. It provides excuses to use blow torches and buy tools that you can't live without! To generally make a smell, a mess and a noise.

Another warning - this is often defines as a hobby but it extends beyond the hobby room. You will spend hours on this forum - enter competitions and as "The Bug" bites deeper it will take over the home. You will create undesirable relationships that will encourage and feed the addiction - it will accelerate to the point where you will be unable to resist.

It has taken several weeks to bring my Cox engines together as I don't keep them at home. The engines have not been stored in a logical manner and mixed with other engines. I still haven't brought them all together as I still have more distributed in storage but this exercise has gone a long way to correct that.

I have also to mention that after seeing Jason's pictures of his engines laid out another side effect of "The Bug" took over and I have wanted to do the same. Jason has increased his collection, a fellow sufferer, and I saw a posting encouraging him to lay out a display again (need I say more!). However, this takes hours!

Excuse my photography. I found it difficult to lay the symptoms of my disease out in a picturesque way and so I just sorted them and dumped them. I don't have a table big enough and so I used the settee (also not big enough).

Another warning! If you are using household furniture for this - make sure that it is easy to clean afterwards! After run oils, fuel residues and oils smell nice but "soft" furnishings don't agree with them!





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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  ian1954 on Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:05 pm

Here is a little more detail












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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  Cribbs74 on Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:53 pm

Is that all? Shocked
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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  ian1954 on Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:07 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:Is that all? Shocked

No. Smoking





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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  getback on Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:45 pm

Clapping Clapping Clapping Clapping Clapping Clapping Clapping Clapping Clapping Clapping  DAMMIT!  Man !!!! I hope you buy your Wife something Nice now and then Laughing   NICE !!! IAN  #6 pic down from the top left. front those 3 with the metal tanks and color back plates that look like space bug Jr. what are they ? Thanks , Eric Small Cox Logo
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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:58 pm

Now that's just sick lol!
Are you going to leave any out there for the rest of us, or do you plan to dominate the world?
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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  ian1954 on Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:00 pm

getback wrote:Clapping Clapping Clapping Clapping Clapping Clapping Clapping Clapping Clapping Clapping  DAMMIT!  Man !!!! I hope you buy your Wife something Nice now and then Laughing   NICE !!! IAN  #6 pic down from the top left. front those 3 with the metal tanks and color back plates that look like space bug Jr. what are they ? Thanks , Eric Small Cox Logo

They are Strato Bugs. More info here:-

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t4229-the-strato-bug-identifying-originality?highlight=Strato+Bug
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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  ian1954 on Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:22 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:Now that's just sick lol!
Are you going to leave any out there for the rest of us, or do you plan to dominate the world?

I often wonder why some regard some Cox engines as rare. I have not had a problem locating them. I suppose have 15 RR1s is a bit excessive (only 10 in the picture) but the five not shown need major work. I have about another 100 engines not pictured all too grim to picture.

It is not possible for me to get all my "collectables" in one place at the same time.

I have parts for another three TD 010s but not the cylinders or pistons. These will be dieselised with home built cylinders and pistons.

I have another three Olympics in the queue for restoration along with a box of "scrap" Babe Bees. I do not think of them as scrap but future restorations.

I have not "acquired" a Cox engine for over a year now but have been given quite a few in exchange for other engine restorations. I have no idea how many I have in total.

I avoid counting them although I keep lists.




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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  ian1954 on Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:56 pm

More detail:-









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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  1/2A Nut on Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:15 pm

lol! Awe man just think of all those poor kids wishing they had a Cox engine to run but can't cause Ian has them all Sad

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Amazing

Post  jmcalata on Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:30 pm

Amazing ! Shocked I had never seen so many Small Cox Logo  engines together sitting in an armchair. Clapping

Also three rares stratos. Huh...
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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  getback on Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:30 pm

I am getting an education here soooooooooo the Black Widow was not always Black /// What year is that I had seen one on the bay and thought well that's just another not so real . So you must have pulled a Cox Box This round . Very nice Ian1954 , Thank you for sharing . Eric Very Happy
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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  RknRusty on Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:34 pm

Good Grief! ... And good for you.
And great entertainment. Some of the above responses caused me to laugh out loud. The first was Cribbs', "That's all?" The next was what I saw as I got up off the floor and scrolled to the next post... more engines! And 1/2A Nut's concern for the poor children that will never have one. And Rod's world domination suggestion.
I'd love to win a single blind grab out of that pile.
Rusty

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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  crankbndr on Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:09 pm

Wow!! Nice!! Drooling on my keyboard, you must have engines stashed in every nook and cranny.
I'll trade two Venoms and an RR-1 for the yellow Strato.

Would you have a box insert for the Strato? I need a good scan of one.
I got this photo from Marks site and it came with a lot of glare but was able to make a decent insert.



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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  ian1954 on Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:28 pm

Thank you for your comments - I enjoyed them all. This was a one off event and unfortunately I couldn't get them all in one place at the same time. There are more but, with the exception of restorations, they are all now back in storage. Next time because I have arranged them better for storage it might be easier to amalgamate them another time. My respect to Jason, this took many hours to set up and his display looked much better.

I admired those amongst us who take the trouble to age and identify the Cox family - I have distinct difficulty with the "Bee" family. Black Widows and Golden Bees are difficult. Cox had a habit of "mixing" and "matching" parts. The two "Silver" Black Widows are genuine as purchased. I bought those new from a Model Shop in England. £19.95 each!

Until you dismantle and engine, scout this site and use the encyclopedias - it is difficult to identify precisely any particular engine. It is practically impossible to collect them all because of the possible variations.

All my Space Bugs are now "genuine" but that could be subject to debate as I have replaced later cylinders, pistons and heads with the correct ones of the period. Quite a few of the old classics for sale have had later parts installed.

There are many anomalies in the publications so "let the buyer beware". Most engines are sold by sellers who are unfamiliar with them.

One day I will thin them out and keep the pristine examples. Then again, they will all be pristine when I have finished! Smoking

Here are a couple that aren't often referred to on this site.

The Banana 049 or the Haifa Banana



The Ranger



(Unfortunately the Stratos don't have the original packaging or I would be happy to oblige with scans)
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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  Marleysky on Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:10 pm

wOw, I'm almost speechless. That collection must have taken many years to assemble. My wife is a quilter and collects fabric and designs. She had a sign that reads " She who dies with the most fabric wins! " she IS trying to win, as are you with a collection like that ( substitute Engines for fabric ) I am impressed and in awe that you can't even store it in one place.....or is that for safety reasons so you won't loose the complete collection in one mishap?
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Smoke

Post  jmcalata on Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:36 am

Hi Ian1954, I stopped smoking three months ago Smoking

Keep on anf good luck cheers
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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  ian1954 on Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:37 am

Marleysky wrote:wOw, I'm almost speechless. That collection must have taken many years to assemble. My wife is a quilter and collects fabric and designs. She had a sign that reads " She who dies with the most fabric wins! "  she IS trying to win, as are you with a collection like that ( substitute Engines for fabric ) I am impressed and in awe that you can't even store it in one place.....or is that for safety reasons so you won't loose the complete collection in one mishap?

I have some quite valuable engines in my collection - there are probably around 250 engines in the pictures, 75 still in storage and 100+ waiting for a good clean/restore. If you estimate an average of $10 per engine then you are looking to insure the Cox part of my collection for $4,250. Some of those engines would cost quite a bit more to replace.

I am highlighting this because in the UK; insuring small, easily transportable and saleable items is prohibitively expensive and even then - "Fort Knox" style security would be requested.



So I cannot keep them at home. This is probably the same in other parts of the world.

I often quote the fact that I cannot insure a 50cc motorbike, a 125cc motorbike would cost me 4 to 5 times more than my 1200cc motorbike.

If I had the space and collected these engines



I probably could insure them for peanuts!

I would, however, warn you all that in a hobby such as ours - and I don't mean just rabid engine collecting! - we amass tools, parts, equipment, books, magazines ............. To lose such possessions, for what ever reason, could be a permanent show stopper depending on your time of life or personal situation. A chap I knew build a "log cabin" workshop, inside he had a lathe and milling machine which he insured. Over the years, he had build up quite a collection of add ons - chucks, cutting tools, drills, taps, dies, wire and tube benders, saws, files, diamond hones ......He also stored his treasured woodworking tools there. He had been using "Teak Oil" to freshen up garden furniture one summer and as he was intending to apply several coats over a period of days, he left the sodden cloths in a jar in the "shed". He didn't dispose of them when he had finished and they spontaneously combusted taking his workshop with them. Horrendous, he lost everything and then realized he was only insured for the mill and the lathe (named items). When he made the claim (now pay attention here as it can be confusing), the insurance assessor inspecting the aftermath realized that the workshop also had tools and equipment that were not insured. As a consequence, he was declared to be underinsured and his payout was reduce to 25%. They estimated the amount he should have been insured for and then pro rated the payout.

What I am emphasizing is that you need to assess what you have amassed and how much it will cost you to replace. We blokes tend to build our modeling empires a piece at a time and overlook how it has grown. That drawer full of tools, knives, blades, rulers, squares, screw drivers, hammers, files, saws, drills  ......... engines, engine stands, fuel tanks, control lines, handles ........ workbench, vices (the sort that clamp things not smoking, drinking, gambling and ....)..........it goes on.

If something horrible happens - fire, theft, acts of God ...). How would you recover? Some items are irreplaceable!
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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  ian1954 on Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:44 am

jmcalata wrote:Hi Ian1954, I stopped smoking three months ago Smoking

Keep on anf good luck cheers

I hope you keep up the non smoking!

I started smoking at about 7 years old. I would have given up years ago if the powers that be hadn't started banning it!

I have now started smoking a pipe (as well as cigarettes). It annoys the complaining people a lot more. Things that were legal - now aren't and things that were illegal - now are!
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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  GWILLIEFOX on Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:36 am

The exhaust ports on the banana look to be trapezoidal rather than rectangular. Is it just the lighting? The Fox .049 FAI had such ports.
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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  ian1954 on Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:21 am

GWILLIEFOX wrote:The exhaust ports on the banana look to be trapezoidal rather than rectangular.  Is it just the lighting?  The Fox .049 FAI had such ports.

You are correct - the ports were modified by Tissan in Haifa, Israel and are trapezoidal. The only Cox ever to be assembled outside of the USA.
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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  Surfer_kris on Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:56 pm

I have never seen any trapezoidal ports though. I thought they just milled of the bar in the regular sure-starts?
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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  ian1954 on Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:12 pm

This is a petrol TD 049.



I had trouble running this and did many experiments with fuel mix. I found, by accident, that it started very easily on just petrol -95 Ron. So I added 5% castor and ran it a little longer. I was a little unhappy that there wasn't enough lubricant but it wasn't happy with 10% castor and so I did 5% castor and 5% two stroke synthetic (motorcycle two stroke).

It started easily but seemed to have lost get up and go. I added a dash of paraffin (kerosene) and it ran quite happily. Still needs more work, I spent about two hours fiddling and after running I checked the plug. It was sooty and not the coffee colour I had hoped for so it was running rich but I wasn't able to lean the mixture any further.

I had run it on a 6 x 3 propeller.
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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  Cribbs74 on Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:53 pm

Ian,

Being as it's a gas Wink engine. I wonder if you need to mess with the shimming a little. Or perhaps go to Av gas and bump the octane a little. I am pretty sure the compression ratio is up there on the TD's.

Just a thought, I play around with full size petrol engines from time to time.

Right now I am rebuilding a 360 Chrysler engine and am purposly knocking compression down to 8.5:1 to allow me to run regular fuel. I was tempted to bump up a little for some more power, but it's a '72 pickup so how much power do I need? Concentrating more on the torque side of the house.

Ron



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Re: Cox engine collecting (The Bug!)

Post  ian1954 on Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:02 am

Cribbs74 wrote:Ian,

Being as it's a gas Wink  engine. I wonder if you need to mess with the shimming a little. Or perhaps go to Av gas and bump the octane a little. I am pretty sure the compression ratio is up there on the TD's.

Just a thought, I play around with full size petrol engines from time to time.

Right now I am rebuilding a 360 Chrysler engine and am purposly knocking compression down to 8.5:1 to allow me to run regular fuel. I was tempted to bump up a little for some more power, but it's a '72 pickup so how much power do I need? Concentrating more on the torque side of the house.

Ron




I thinks that there is a combination of things to change or try. I was pleased that I got it running - I have some octane booster that I can experiment with but I found that adding the paraffin improved it and that would imply lower octane. Who knows? I enjoy experimenting but sometimes (well most of the time!) I spend too long fiddling about.

I've not done many car engine rebuilds (lots of motorbike and model engines though!) but when I see 1972 it rings alarm bells. Engines in the UK of that era ran on leaded fuel and I had to exchange the cylinder head on my Land Rover for one with hardened valve seats.

Cars prior to 1995 in the UK can suffer from the alcohol content in the bio fuels now sold predominately at supermarkets rotting seals and rubber.

The Chrysler 360 V8



I did a lot of work on a Rover V8 (developed from a Buick 215) and that was time consuming but that V8 burble when running was a very pleasing sound.
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