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VIDEO: R/C P-51 ARF ----> Control Line "Fun Scale" Cox_ba12




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Happy VIDEO: R/C P-51 ARF ----> Control Line "Fun Scale"

Post  larrys4227 Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:31 am

Howdy folks --- A few of you may have seen a random post or two on another forum in regards to my newest project.  I've had a Hanger9 P-51 ARF hanging on the wall for a number of years, and I've always wanted to convert it to control line.  I doubt it would ever get used as an RC plane again .... and motivation struck me after a contest I was at a couple weeks ago where they had a "Fun Scale" class.  I've tinkered with a throttled controlled flight streak ... and it is tons of fun

The June 2015 issue of AMA magazine had quite a write up on control line scale, and how to convert a hanger-queen ARF into a Fun Scale plane.  Its pretty simple .... the most important part is location of the line guide at the wingtip.

My particular case will be a 6-channel 2.4ghz radio .... controlling throttle, flaps and rudder. Since the P-51 is a taildragger .... they have a nasty habit of pulling left (which is toward you in C/L) just before takeoff.  I'll need the rudder input to offset it.

Lots of little things to do ... but the first was to free up the engine and run it.  It was perfect, and purred like a kitten.

The pic below is where I'm at as of a couple nights ago .... last night I got the on/off and charging jacks remounted into the fuse.

The bellcrank is completely removeable, so I can get to the radio gear underneath.

Next up, will be the leadouts .... and then I can start work on the wingtip line guide.

VIDEO: R/C P-51 ARF ----> Control Line "Fun Scale" Large

Here are a couple pics taken in 2008 and 2009 ... which is about the last time it flew through the skies.

VIDEO: R/C P-51 ARF ----> Control Line "Fun Scale" Original

VIDEO: R/C P-51 ARF ----> Control Line "Fun Scale" Original

VIDEO: R/C P-51 ARF ----> Control Line "Fun Scale" Original


Last edited by larrys4227 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Happy Re: VIDEO: R/C P-51 ARF ----> Control Line "Fun Scale"

Post  larrys4227 Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:42 pm

I hope I got all this right .... cause it looks like I'll be flying this, this weekend. Shocked

Line guide is done.  All I gotta do is double check the CG ... hang it from the ceiling to check the line guide ..... handles and line ...... HOPEFULLY  all will be good.

Flying  Flying

VIDEO: R/C P-51 ARF ----> Control Line "Fun Scale" Large

VIDEO: R/C P-51 ARF ----> Control Line "Fun Scale" Large
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Post  Marleysky Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:55 pm

Wheee, looks like it should be fun!  Very nice looking for FunScale.  Can't wait for flight report and video...? RC Plane
Do you require a co- pilot ? Who does or how do you hang on to the handle and twiddle the sticks on the transmitter while flying?
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Happy Re: VIDEO: R/C P-51 ARF ----> Control Line "Fun Scale"

Post  larrys4227 Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:41 pm

Videos are hard for me .... as 90% of my flying is by myself.

Ya, with this one I probably do need a co-pilot. LOL

The transmitter will be hanging off of my belt and controlled with my left hand. All I need is the left stick and a toggle switch right above it.

I hope it goes well ....LOL
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Post  batjac Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:30 am

Larry,  interesting looking conversion.  I just looked at the Hangar 9 website for their P-51 ARF.  All I saw on their website was the discontinued 40 size ARF for a .46 engine.  The listed weight was 6.25-6.75 pounds.  Is that the same plane? And there is a 60 size also.

I don't want to be a downer, but I'm not sure about your bellcrank setup.  Are those four black screws all that holds the bellcrank plate to the sides?  And those side rails seem pretty small to me.  What are the rails made of?  1/2" stock?  The wood seems a little light to be spruce.  I don't think I'd fly a plane that large and heavy on that bellcrank setup.  And I'd definitely get a pull test on it before flying.  Not trying to be negative, I'd just hate to see you lose your plane to a bellcrank failure.

The Doomsayer Mark

edit: Looking some more for the Hangar 9 "Marie", all I see is the 60 size that is listed at 7-8.5 pounds. It looks like the pictures of the one you have, and if so, I'd definitely not use that bellcrank setup. Just sayin'

The Doom and Gloomsayer Mark
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Happy Re: VIDEO: R/C P-51 ARF ----> Control Line "Fun Scale"

Post  larrys4227 Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:45 am

Mark --- This particular Hanger9 P-51 is no longer made. It is a 46-size. It was originally an all-in-one ready to fly with engine and radio.

I did quite a bit of research as well as speaking with Fred Cronenwett. He knows his stuff about scale, as well as writes the scale column in AMA magazine. June 2015 AMA mag had an extensive article about converting.

I saw a number of scale planes put together this way .... with removeable bellcrank. The sides of the fuse is reinforced. The rails are oak, I believe. Put together, it is really solid. Fred didn't indicate I should change anything ... I'm sure he would have if he noticed something badly amiss.

LOL .... heres the way I look at it. The planes been hanging on the wall for over 7 years not being used. I put it together the best I thought how .... if it doesn't work out ....hey, I tried. This P-51 is difficult to get in the air as an RC plane ... I'm alittle nervous for the maiden on a set of lines. It needs alot of rudder on take off, so its an added skill I have to do at the same time as everything else.

It'll be interesting .....

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Post  getback Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:51 am

Well this is a new one on me and should bee a handful to get to that comfortable feeling Popcorn Eric Popcorn Best of luck with the maiden flight .
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Happy Re: VIDEO: R/C P-51 ARF ----> Control Line "Fun Scale"

Post  rsv1cox Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:47 am

What engine are you running Larry?

I thought about doing the same with a ARTF but couldn't make up my mind whether to run electric or fuel -

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t8478-make-a-control-line-model-out-of-this

so the project still sits. Good for you, for going for it. I hope that it works out well and I can't wait for the results.

Bob
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Happy Re: VIDEO: R/C P-51 ARF ----> Control Line "Fun Scale"

Post  larrys4227 Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:39 pm

It's an Evolution 46 ... the "A" version .... or those engines shipped on Hangar9 planes as trainers.

Its really an outstanding engine. Runs great and starts as easy as snapping the spinner with your fingers.

I hope it works out well too ... they'll be a gradual taxi around the circle a few times to try and identify any concerns before the wheels lift off.

But theres always those .... "Awww Crap" moments just as it takes to the sky and theres no turning back ... LOL
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Post  Mark Boesen Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:19 pm

Years ago when i was flying stunt, a guy came to a contest with a Great Planes Citabria powered with a .60, it flew pretty well.
I think your set up is ok, but wouldn't plan to use the servo to control rudder, as it might be more trouble then worth, you might be better off to dial in a couple degrees of rudder offset and make sure the tail wheel steers plane to the right.

Lol, and on the same note, i remember reading in mags back in the 70's-80's of people converting ukie profiles to R/C!
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Happy Re: VIDEO: R/C P-51 ARF ----> Control Line "Fun Scale"

Post  larrys4227 Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:36 am

Mark Boesen wrote:
I think your set up is ok, but wouldn't plan to use the servo to control rudder, as it might be more trouble then worth, you might be better off to dial in a couple degrees of rudder offset and make sure the tail wheel steers plane to the right.

Initially, I had the exact thoughts as you expressed. But in reading articles and listening to those scale fliers that know what they are doing .... I'm going to follow their advice. P-51's, Corsairs and warbird taildraggers all have a nasty pull to the left as the plane is on takeoff roll. I can agree .... mine as RC, I could never keep in a straight line down the runway. Very tricky. From pics and articles ..... lock tailwheel into a straight line with the fuse ..... zero rudder offset ..... right rudder on takeoff roll ..... ALOT of right rudder ... and then release when plane leaves the ground. (I've watched a couple videos on this ...and there is much rudder input by the pilots.)

Additionally what I have done .... and learned from my experience with my throttle controlled Flight Streak .... is to tighten up the outboard landing gear wheel to induce drag. This makes the plane pull to the right .... not enough to make it crab, but enough to help keep the plane's nose pointing to the outside of the circle.

I spent alot of time as well with the inboard wing line guide ... following Fred C.'s documents to the letter. With my wifes help last night .... I hung the plane from the ceiling of the garage. I was amazed .... the vertical CG is spot on to my eye, and the nose is clearly pointing down ... probably about 5 degrees is my guess. More than is needed ... but that as well is going to keep the nose pointed to the outside. Until those first flights are done and I can start trimming it back ... I'm going to give it as much outboard influence as I can, per their advice.

Of course, as soon as I start that first taxi roll .... all bets are off. LOL!! Fred says to just taxi the plane around a couple laps ... not even trying to fly it yet. The plane is going to tell me alot as it very slowly picks up speed. Make changes before the wheels leave the ground if need be ...

Yeah ... I'm nervous. I feel almost like the first time I retreaded back to control line and was about to pull the stooge line. UUgghhh!!

But I'll step back from what I know of traditional C/L planes ... and let the experts guide me.

My new lines .... .021" X 60' should be here tomorrow. If the wind is favorable, I'll leave work early friday and head to the field for some practice taxi laps.

This is nerve racking .... lol!
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Post  larrys4227 Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:30 pm

Oh man .... you guys have no idea how STOKED I am right now!!

She flies!! Yaaaaa!!!

I left work early this afternoon .... finally some light winds ... and headed to the field.

Really nervous .... I set the aileron surfaces as neutral as I could get them, and then set the low throttle position. Double checked everything else and gave it a go ....

Made 2-3 taxi laps around the circle to get the feel, and I'm glad I had the rudder hooked up. She really wants to pull in toward me on rollout.

Finally, I just throttled up, and off she went .... touch and go's ... slow flap laps .... a couple of fast laps and a bunch of different landings with and without flaps.

I couldn't be happier ... she flew beautifully. Another elderly gentleman was at the field and I asked him to watch the wings as I couldn't really tell if the outboard was high or low .... he said they were perfectly flat.

4 flights .... about 10-12 minutes each ..... it was so much fun to finally be able to fly this P-51 after thinking about doing this conversion for so many years.

I can't wait to go back out this weekend ..... Smile

VIDEO: R/C P-51 ARF ----> Control Line "Fun Scale" Large
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Post  rsv1cox Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:22 am

Good looking plane, successful flights, happy dances all around. I'm glad that it worked out great for you.

Bob
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Happy Re: VIDEO: R/C P-51 ARF ----> Control Line "Fun Scale"

Post  larrys4227 Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:32 pm

I was lucky enough to get a fellow C/L pilot to catch a video of my P-51 today.

Sorry its so far away ... sometimes I don't know if I like a semi-still camera, or a closer one panning around the circle.

Hope you enjoy!!

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Post  RknRusty Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:14 pm

Looks good in the air, and even in the video the wings look level. Nice expert double touch and go there one time Lol. I could see you leaning back against it at fast throttle, did you open it up all the way?

How's the pull feel? I bet it would take me for a walk. It looks to me like it would do a wingover if you don't bang the corner too hard, maybe nip away at it, higher each time and see where its limits are. Are you planning to do anything like that?

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Post  larrys4227 Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:33 pm

No, I haven't opened it up all the way. It's pulling extremely hard right now because I have the line guide pushed further back than it should be, until I'm sure what the plane is gonna do. It needs .021 lines .... which I don't have until early next week. Today I flew it with .018's ... so didn't want to go to crazy. And, on top of all that .... the lines are 64 feet .... way too long. Each time I came in for some kind of landing, the lines had a bit of slack and kind of hard to control .... thus the bumpy landings.

Yesterday, when I did the maiden .... I was on .015 x 60 footers .... it was the largest I had, but I was very easy with the speed. I don't recall having that problem of 'loose' lines yesterday ....

I really don't have any plans to stunt with it. This is for Fun Scale Class, and although I can choose certain stunts to fill up my 6 requirements .... I really don't need to since I have throttle control and flaps. Taxi's, touch and go's, overshoots, flapped flight will fill up my card of 'scale' requirements easily.
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Post  RknRusty Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:14 am

Be sure and re-check for wings-level after you put the heavier lines on. It might need a little more counter-balancing, especially at low speed.
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Post  larrys4227 Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:40 am

Maybe thats what was going on ... longer and heavier lines. I've noticed in some articles and videos that the scale guys all seem to use short lines. Maybe thats the reason. My Flite Streak, that is throttle controlled, is on 55ft lines .... it flies better.

Darn rain today .... was hoping it would hold off for a while .... looks like I won't have that luck.
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Post  rsv1cox Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:32 am

Now I wanna tell you - THAT looks like fun.  You must have been busier than an one armed paper hanger with the itch.   I can't believe the lift that that model generates at low speeds while carrying all that R/C equipment.

Maybe despite my tendency to get dizzy, even I could do it.  Get dizzy, just set it down for a moment or two.  But the slow laps you were doing would not cause me to get dizzy on those long lines.  You did get quite aggressive at the five minute mark though.  Low to high speed transitions really worked out well.

You have me really excited to see if my A1 Skyraider would fly that good C/L - R/C.

Bob
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Post  larrys4227 Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:05 am

Thanks rsv1 .... it certainly is alot of fun. Smile I hope I do create some excitement with this .... actually, the gentleman that was holding for me was very excited about it and was going to go home and have a look-see at what he had hanging on the wall. LOL! Everyone that was there was pretty impressed .... there was quite a peanut gallery .... all out of camera shot.

The actual flying line for any scale C/L is considered at 30 degrees .... I've been keeping it level cause, well, I is scared to get it up to reg height. I've been lucky the 2 times I've taken it out ... the wind has been dead calm. No idea what its going to do with a breeze.

Descent should be very smooth ..... lets say a landing .... that manuever should take a lap or two to complete and then another lap of taxi on the ground, and then a smooth takeoff and a couple laps to get back up to height. My P-51 does like more speed to land .... I'm almost at stall quite a few times (which is stupid of me) and that is causing some of the bouncing. Almost all of the slow speed flying is with the flaps deployed. The angle of attack puts it nose high, but it just seems to float there ... I like it. LOL

I think I got a number of things right .... C/G and line guide position. I think the motor itself is contributing to a good flight too. It runs excellent with great transition. It has always run good .... gotta love Evolution engines. I have 4 of them and they all run great.

I've got a lot to learn on how to fly scale and make it appear scale-like .... I'm excited to learn. But the line size and length is first up to correct.

Now, get in the shop and install a servo or two .... Smile
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Post  getback Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:14 am

I am with BOB , That was exciting and really like the way you can control your speed to what you want . I bet the RC guys will think he crazy out there doing both at the same time lol! Thanks for the video Larry I really enjoyed it and glad thins are working in the right direction for you . getback Flying
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Post  londke3 Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:20 pm

My flying buddy has converted 4 of the HANGAR 9 Warbird ARFs to CL including the Mustang, here are some video's I shot of the P47, Corsair and the P40.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlKcBB_UBJ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sGETANZAHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmfAtANEDlE
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Post  Surfer_kris Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:51 am

getback wrote: I bet the RC guys will think he crazy out there doing both at the same time lol!  

Well it does look rather strange too me, but if you replace the human with a pole you can even stand outside the circle Wink
Or even better, show some mercy, cut the lines and set that miserable tethered plane free... bounce
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Post  larrys4227 Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:17 am

londke3 wrote:My flying buddy has converted 4 of the HANGAR 9 Warbird ARFs to CL including the Mustang, here are some video's I shot of the P47, Corsair and the P40.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlKcBB_UBJ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sGETANZAHQ  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmfAtANEDlE

Thanks for the link! I think I recall viewing the Corsair video ... but had not seen the other two. The P47 Thunderbolt was interesting to listen to ... seems like it had a low pitch prop. I've been wondering if I should prop down to get the rev's higher. Just normal cruising, my throttle is at 1/3 or a bit more. I can't imagine flying wide open .... way too fast.

He seemed to put up a nice comfortable pace to the speed .... all of 'em look great!
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Post  getback Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:45 am

Thanks londke3 , enjoyed the videos really like the sound of that 4 stoker the corsair was my favorite but the look of the p40 was awesome. getback RC Plane
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