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Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

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Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  roddie on Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:11 pm

One of my recent "box-o-engines" acquisitions; I decided to inspect tonight. Crankshaft turned freely.. but piston stationary.. Huh... hmm...



I unscrewed the backplate to find this...





Only one small piece of what might have been a "fragment" of the lower-end of the rod was in the case. No remnants of a broken crankpin.

Here's a close-up photo of that fragment.. Huh...



This little pup met with a catastrophic-failure at some point in its' life. Needless to say; I'm a bit disappointed. I'd hoped I might be able to run this little mill on a small c/l balsawood airplane of maybe 18-20" wingspan.

Could it be rebuilt? I don't know too much about these engines. Did all the Testors/McCoy .049s have the same stroke? If so; maybe I could source a replacement crank... and use one of my reed-valve cylinder/piston sets to get it running again?

This "pipe-bomb" reed-valve engine was also included in the "box-o-engines"..



It's pretty "stuck".......... but if I can free-it-up.. maybe I'd at least have a donor-piston/cylinder? I have another "pipe-bomb" engine that's not stuck.. so if nothing else; I now have three glow-heads.. where I only had one before. Mark McRiley and I have been brainstorming on a retro-fit mount for the Testors pipe-bomb .049 reed-valve engine. If lightweight enough.. I think it will pull a small balsa C/L model over and around the circle for some good fun!

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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  Ken Cook on Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:41 pm

That's the best thing that could've happened to that engine. However, it should be framed as it does indicate it did run.
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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  roddie on Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:13 pm

Ken Cook wrote:                     That's the best thing that could've happened to that engine. However, it should be framed as it does indicate it did run.

That's cold Ken Cold .......... Laughing
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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  Marleysky on Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:31 pm

Well, Ken does offer the voice of experience!
For the rest of us, fumbling with spitting sputtering engines is just a way of life. And to prolong that pain.... I offer a clip and paste of someone else's attempt to mount one of these pipe type engines. It's on Facebook, so it won't play well(share) with others. Try this link;

https://scontent.fdet1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21318811_1815146448500289_6571932761247677362_o.jpg?oh=936b7e96a453af442f18b4d81e5cda01&oe=5A6051F8&dl=1

And or:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1815146558500278&set=g.919016391481124&type=1&ifg=1
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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  Cribbs74 on Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:40 pm

I'm with Ken, Unlike Cox, those engines were only designed to be run in toys and were built for that capacity. There is a following, I respect that, but it's not something to get serious with.
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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  MauricioB on Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:50 pm

Hello Roddie, I have a Testor 049 that was given to me by a friend, I overhauled it and it works very well.
I had a plastic tank but it was broken, so I decided to make a bench to be able to take it to any model and place an additional fuel tank.
It is a engine that surely there you will get the missing pieces, surely it will be a beautiful project for you, to return to life to that engine!
Ahead!
Regards!!


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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  Oldenginerod on Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:26 am

Ken Cook wrote:                     That's the best thing that could've happened to that engine. However, it should be framed as it does indicate it did run.

How many have you run Ken?  I think you're being rather harsh, even in your sarcasm.  Yes, some are known to break the crank, then again, so have some Cox engines.  As for running, any that I have, whether Wen Mac, McCoy (like Roddies) or Testors reed valve run every bit as good as most Cox engines I've run.  Apart from the mounting difficulties of the Pipe Bomb, they are a fine engine.  The McCoy Red Head .049 that Roddy shows would do a fine job of pulling most 1/2A planes around.

Roddie, you shouldn't have too much trouble finding parts to repair that engine.  I have a crank and even a piston/rod you can have if you can't find anything closer to home.
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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  Ken Cook on Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:23 am

I owned many of them, I just sold them all on EBAY last year . There were about 12 in the lot. Glad to see them go equally, I spent enough time as a kid fiddling with them . The black plastic version was about the only one I ever had success running in terms of getting it to run and power it offered,  the bad outweighed the good. The other styles very anemic.  I spent many hours as a kid trying to get them to work, I owned 4 cars from them, one that would never run, the Indy had the rod break, the Beetle which had the pipe bomb engine which  broke the crank. Many of my relatives that purchased them for me were not very well informed in terms of quality and the decisions were based on price. The cost is reflective to the quality of this engine.  I certainly would never draw a comparison between Cox and Testor's in terms of comparable runs. I don't find that I'm being harsh at all, I'm being realistic.
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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  Marleysky on Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:30 am

Buyer Beware, or Caveat Emptor!    http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENGINE-LOT-4-TESTORS-049-ENGINES-FOR-PARTS-REPAIR-2-PROPS/311956936131?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

Here was a listing for four (4) engines for $19.95.
With shipping that breaks down to $6.75 each......still no bidders. There are listings for multiple single engines, by a different seller, from $24 to $29 each. The  seller on the first lot never responded to my request for additional info on the group, so I didn't bother to bid. I'm sure the "Bay" loves to collect listing fees from sellers who try to sell items with out researching what similar items have sold for. lol!
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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  Oldenginerod on Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:15 pm

That listing title says 4 Testors engines (although the description says two). Well, one's a Fox, but I can forgive him that as rarely are Fox .049s marked as such. One engine says Wen Mac right there on the crankcase. You really have to wonder how serious some of these ebay sellers are to not get their facts straight. It doesn't take a lot of research. I sometimes find myself sending messages (nice ones of course!) to the seller correcting an inaccuracy in their listing. Occasionally I will receive a return message expressing the seller's appreciation for the information, plus they add a correction to the listing. Others just don't seem to give a damn and are quite happy to deceive an unwary buyer. Then you get some who think that if they play complete ignorance ("I know nothing about these items") they are no longer responsible for the deception.

On a positive note, I actually have benefited from other people's ingnorance by purchasing various "un-named" engines for a song. They're just as little harder to locate.

As said,
" Marleysky on Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:30 am
Buyer Beware, or Caveat Emptor!"
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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  chevyiron420 on Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:06 pm

Your piston and cylinder from the pipe bomb will fit perfectly on your mccoy. The problem is the crank. They will break cranks right through the hole that line up with the carb. Once I settled on the cox 6x3 props and fuel with 25% oil, I had no more crank failures. Your crank may have been broken forcing a stuck piston. I have been using these engines for a very long time and I like them. The crank from a wen mac will work fine. It wont be counter weighted but it works. Only the later mccoys were counter weighted.
Phil
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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  roddie on Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:27 pm

chevyiron420 wrote:Your piston and cylinder from the pipe bomb will fit perfectly on your mccoy. The problem is the crank. They will break cranks right through the hole that line up with the carb. Once I settled on the cox 6x3 props and fuel with 25% oil, I had no more crank failures. Your crank may have been broken forcing a stuck piston. I have been using these engines for a very long time and I like them. The crank from a wen mac will work fine. It wont be counter weighted but it works. Only the later mccoys were counter weighted.
Phil

Thanks for the info Phil. Do you suppose that these engines come close to their rated design-rpm (red-lining) when running the smaller Testors propellers along with using an improper fuel in them?

I have an ancient un-opened quart of Testors/McCoy glow fuel.. and have to wonder what the formula is.. or was.




I've never run a Testors .049 of any type.. and was hoping to run this one. At least this type can be easily mounted to an airplane. I'll keep an eye out for some parts-engines.
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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  gcb on Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:01 pm

The "pipe-bomb" designation came from the ones with metal crankcases. The ones with the black crankcase and white plastic tank were sold as the "Testors 8000 (.8cc=.049ci).
The engine was sold upside down in the box. It was set-up to fly CL in a CCW direction.

RC Plane
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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  Oldenginerod on Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:35 pm

The series 8000 was a great engine. Easy to mount with the included radial tank mount, decent fuel capacity for reasonable length flights (unlike the Fly-'em series which ran out of fuel before it got in the air.) They started well, needled well and pretty much performed as good as your average Cox. Unfortunately the starter spring was fragile, although the design was good.

I will admit, there were some obvious QC issues, but nowhere near as bad a OK Cubs.
I eBay purchased a heap of parts a while ago that were advertised as to suit OK Cub, but I could tell from the picture they weren't. Turns out they were Wen Mac/Testors/McCoy. There would have been more than 20 piston/rod assemblies which all looked brand new. I've used these to repair several of these engines, but I needed to check carefully when chosing as there was a huge variation in the ball socket clearance. I just went through and chose the tightest ones for my rebuilds, which actually makes a significant difference to the running of the engine. Sadly these are not swaged in like a Cox so you cannot take up the clearance. What ya get is what ya got.

Roddie, if that Testors fuel doesn't specify that it's suitable to .049s then I'd be careful. For one thing, the nitro content could be as low as 5%-10%. The Testors .049 won't handle low nitro as well as Cox. There's a fair chance the oil content will be fine as it was probably formulated with plain bearings and iron pistons in mind.

No reason why you can't just use your 25%-35% Cox fuel, but I'd be sticking to the lower nitro end of the scale to preserve the bottom end, and those hard to find heads.
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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  roddie on Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:42 am

Oldenginerod wrote:

I eBay purchased a heap of parts a while ago that were advertised as to suit OK Cub, but I could tell from the picture they weren't.  Turns out they were Wen Mac/Testors/McCoy.  There would have been more than 20 piston/rod assemblies which all looked brand new.  I've used these to repair several of these engines, but I needed to check carefully when chosing as there was a huge variation in the ball socket clearance.  I just went through and chose the tightest ones for my rebuilds, which actually makes a significant difference to the running of the engine.  Sadly these are not swaged in like a Cox so you cannot take up the clearance.  What ya get is what ya got.

Roddie, if that Testors fuel doesn't specify that it's suitable to .049s then I'd be careful.  For one thing, the nitro content could be as low as 5%-10%.  The Testors .049 won't handle low nitro as well as Cox.  There's a fair chance the oil content will be fine as it was probably formulated with plain bearings and iron pistons in mind.

No reason why you can't just use your 25%-35% Cox fuel, but I'd be sticking to the lower nitro end of the scale to preserve the bottom end, and those hard to find heads.


A little more discovery with my broken engine. Con-rod to piston fit is VERY loose.. (probably as much as 1mm or .040")   Huh...  I'm thinking that this loose of a fit may have pounded the bottom-end to the point of failure.

I removed the cylinder and head to find "two" gaskets were installed.



I wanted to see "how stuck" the piston was.. so I opened my bench-vise jaws enough for the rod to drop-in, and tapped very lightly on the top of the piston using a hardwood dowel and tack-hammer. The piston slipped down in the bore quite easily.



It's kind of a shame regarding the ball/socket joint design. It seems to me that a piece of thick-wall steel tube having an inside bevel of a given angle to fit over the outer "cup" of the socket might work as the Cox reset-tool does. It wouldn't be difficult to machine with a lathe. The outer cup of the socket is approx. .250" or 6.35mm. therefor; the tube-tools' ID would need to be smaller than that.. but have a wall-thickness enough for machining a bevel. A couple of light taps with a small hammer would reveal whether the tool would pinch the outer-cup closed enough to take-up the slack in the joint. Unlike the Cox reset tool; the con-rod would merely fit inside the tube.. rather than a slot. Furthermore.. a beveled seamless (and slot-less) tube would be self-centering. Nothing ventured.. nothing gained..  Two Cents

EDIT: forgot to mention.. the Testors/McCoy fuel can states on the back panel (see directions for use)  "Approved for use with Testors/McCoy model engines, planes and cars". This was the fuel that was sold in department stores that also sold the Testors toys/models. My can has a K-Mart sticker on it. Note also the "Copyright 1970" printed on the very bottom of the can.

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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:45 am

roddie wrote:
It's kind of a shame regarding the ball/socket joint design. It seems to me that a piece of thick-wall steel tube having an inside bevel of a given angle to fit over the outer "cup" of the socket might work as the Cox reset-tool does. It wouldn't be difficult to machine with a lathe. The outer cup of the socket is approx. .250" or 6.35mm. therefor; the tube-tools' ID would need to be smaller than that.. but have a wall-thickness enough for machining a bevel. A couple of light taps with a small hammer would reveal whether the tool would pinch the outer-cup closed enough to take-up the slack in the joint.

I doubt your efforts would succeed Roddie.  The rod is retained by a clip and not swaged in as a Cox.  (Possibly like the early Cox "three piece" piston.  I'm sure the socket would be hardened and would not yield, unlike the socket in a Cox piston which is copper coated to prevent the piston crown & socket from being hardened during the piston hardening process.  I would suggest that your efforts may fracture the socket.  To re-state what I have done, I go through my stock of spare pistons and choose the one with the least clearance.  If you do no good sourcing spare parts, I will repeat my offer to send you what you need, and would be happy to pick the best one of the bunch and send it to you in a padded envelope for free, along with another crankshaft.  $15.85 AUD on you if I box it.
It's up to you. See how you go tracking down a donor engine.
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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  roddie on Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:32 am

Thanks again Rod, I'm sure that some parts will come around locally. Thanks for explaining about the Testors piston/rod construction/metallurgy. Maybe the rod-fit in my engine was poor to begin with.. or maybe whoever had the engine before me, ran it on the wrong fuel?

I wonder if Testors ever tried to reproduce Cox's ball-socket design and got into trouble with patent infringement? That's what happened to Cox, when they tried copy Testors starter-spring design.. or so I've heard.

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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:46 am

roddie, I know of few others that get the pure joy out of investigating the inner workings of these little engines than you do and sharing your findings on these pages.  

My heart did a little flutter when I saw the first picture in this thread of that little pot-bellied McCoy, just the way I used to love receiving them.  Dusty, dirty and containing secrets.  To bad that one has a nasty problem.

I have a few, but none exactly like the one shown. I have several (pictured) that I use for display but I have some incomplete McCoys that I would be happy to send you, a couple with intact crank-shafts that might fit yours.  I'm a little closer geographically than Rod. Smile 

Just PM me your address and they will be on their way.



Bob
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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  roddie on Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:46 pm

rsv1cox wrote:roddie, I know of few others that get the pure joy out of investigating the inner workings of these little engines than you do and sharing your findings on these pages.  

My heart did a little flutter when I saw the first picture in this thread of that little pot-bellied McCoy, just the way I used to love receiving them.  Dusty, dirty and containing secrets.  To bad that one has a nasty problem.

I have a few, but none exactly like the one shown. I have several (pictured) that I use for display but I have some incomplete McCoys that I would be happy to send you, a couple with intact crank-shafts that might fit yours.  I'm a little closer geographically than Rod. Smile 

Just PM me your address and they will be on their way.



Bob

Bob.. I'm not sure what drives me in this hobby.. maybe it's just my appreciation for a time where amusements were more than pushing buttons and escaping into a world of social isolation.

I was an under-privileged kid.. and made a lot of my "toys" myself in my early-years. My dad didn't have a job that paid enough to support us.. so my mom sewed "draperies" at home with a rugged-old "Singer" sewing-machine.. (she still uses it..) The Mill-store would deliver bolts of fabric/lining, hooks and patterns for the drapes.. and my mom would cut and sew them together. Heavy brown paper was also supplied for wrapping-up the drapes with string to be picked-up. My mom would frequently cut a 60" x 60" square of paper for me to draw "roads" on with crayons.. for my Matchbox cars. This provided endless hours of fun.

My dad built and flew C/L models from the late 50's thru the early 70's.. along with my uncle and grandfather, when C/L flying was in its prime. I was a "toddler"... and vividly remember those days.. but they were short-lived. Sometime in the early 70's.. the C/L activities diminished.. and my dad lost interest in the hobby and got involved with Barbershop quartet/chorus singing.. which consumed a great deal of his time. I was left to my own devices.. and had two baby brothers by then. It would be 25 some odd years later when I was married; that my dad would show-up at my house with a Cox PT-19 flight-trainer and starting-kit. Shocked We both flew it that afternoon.. and that event is what jump-started me into this hobby. My dad actually regained interest and bought a C/L balsa kit and engine. It was the Sterling Mono-coupe and an OS .25FP-S. He never flew it though. He was a "builder" more than a flier. That airplane ended-up with my brother.. received a little "hangar-rash".. and now I have it.



This Veco "Warrior" that he built around 1968 is also hanging in my basement.. It has a Veco .35C engine.



You could say that I'm stuck in a nostalgic vintage C/L modeling time-warp... and that would be fairly accurate. Smile






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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:55 pm

Just to be clear Bob, the McCoys that you have pictured are a completely different animal to Roddie's. Must be a Wen Mac/Testors based engine with a glow head
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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:04 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:Just to be clear Bob, the McCoys that you have pictured are a completely different animal to Roddie's.  Must be a Wen Mac/Testors  based engine with a glow head

Then I misunderstood Rod, easy for me.  But, I have many more Testors/Wens than McCoys.  Maybe something roddie could use.

Edit add.

These are what I had in mind. roddie just needs an undamaged crankshaft, right.







Oh yes Rod, Just to drive you a little nuts......... Smile I found a use for my rebuilt drill press vice.


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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:37 pm

Between the Wen Macs and Testors there was just two McCoys as far as I know, No.1 & No.2.  I can't see the markings on Roddie's engine, but I think it's a No.2.  My recent one is a No.1 with a "T" above McCoy.

Later ones they dropped McCoy & went with Testors.  Any Wen Mac with a glow head is pretty much the same thing.  They changed some features like cooling fins etc. but pretty much everything interchanges.

Just saw your edit Bob. Roddie needs a crank and piston/rod. The Wen Mac with the broken case won't work as I think it has a domed piston. The crank will fit although lacking a counterbalance. The Pipe Bonb on the left will have the right piston but wrong crank. The Wen Mac at top will be good in all departments, but a shame to break up a complete engine. The bottom one is obscured so I can't tell the model. Mk X onwards should work.
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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  roddie on Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:24 pm

Here's a photo of the reverse-side of the case.. if that helps.. "THANKS fellas"!


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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:27 pm

roddie wrote:Here's a photo of the reverse-side of the case.. if that helps.. "THANKS fellas"!



It may be buried in crud in the photo, but they are normally marked either No.1 or No.2.  Probably a carry-over from Wen Mac days where they used to make so many minor design changes, even withing a particular model, that it's impossible to know what you actually have.  From the Mk1 through to the MkXIII there were actually 27 distinct different models, but there were actually more variations in design than the 27 as Wen Mac transisioned from one Mk to the next, using up old parts inventory, modifying some to suit, assembling whatever parts they could reach on any particular day.

But in short, Any flat topped piston (glow head model) will fit the McCoy as will the crank from just about any front intake engine (apart from the Mk1 and the FRV Pipe Bomb, but that's another story)

And yes Bob, I noticed the vise.  No comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Testors/McCoy .049 smoked...

Post  chevyiron420 on Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:54 am

Testors dropped the #1 or #2 after a wile.
Phil
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