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Post  robot797 on Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:17 am

Because I was bored and I got the parts
I now have a cox 049 running on gasoline



more info will come
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Post  balogh on Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:46 am

Really interesting and unique..I saw unburnt castor in the plastic exhaust manifold...how much % did you apply in the fuel?

The flywheel seems to run excentrically..is the crankcase worn radially?
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Post  robot797 on Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:56 am

I use 20% oil
10% normal 2 stroke and 10% castor
the flywheel doesn't have any sideways movement as far as I can see (might be wrong here)
but the engine did get a new crank (broke the last one in a diesel experiment)
so it does have a little front to back play
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Post  Cribbs74 on Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:42 am

Very cool!

Now you have to figure out a way to minaturize all the ignition components. I don’t think they will fit in a plane or car.
Klotz makes an all castor 2 stroke oil and a part castor part synth oil called Techniplate. That way you don’t have to mix. I use it in my dirt bikes.

Do you have any close up pictures of the spark plug and ignition system? I would like to see what you did.

Great Job!

Ron
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Post  robot797 on Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:58 am

pff I already have a way to minimize the ignition components


original dutch site
http://ridders.nu/Webpaginas/pagina_blokker_vonkcircuit/blokker_crcuit_frameset.htm

translated english version

http://modelengineeringwebsite.com/Blokker_I_C_ignition.html

it has no funktions for retarding or advancing the ignition
but with help of an arduino or a pic micro chip it can be added

but for a one rpm engine it shoudnt matter the retarding of the timing is just for easy starting

also here are some detailed closeups

cox 049 gasoline Pc280013
cox 049 gasoline Pc280010
cox 049 gasoline Pc280011
cox 049 gasoline Pc280012
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Post  Oldenginerod on Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:49 pm

I didn't think castor oil mixed with gasoline???
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Post  balogh on Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:52 pm

I used to mix it in the 2-stroke fuel of my scooter back in the 70-s...it smelled good at least.
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Post  Cribbs74 on Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:13 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:I didn't think castor oil mixed with gasoline???

It doesn’t in low temperatures.

I use straight Benol spring/summer and Super Techniplate in the fall/winter. It works good. Klotz may add stuff to make it hold in suspension better.

Ron
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Post  Oldenginerod on Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:58 am

Cribbs74 wrote:
Oldenginerod wrote:I didn't think castor oil mixed with gasoline???

It doesn’t in low temperatures.

I use straight Benol spring/summer and Super Techniplate in the fall/winter. It works good. Klotz may add stuff to make it hold in suspension better.

Ron

I know when mixing model diesel fuel you can't add the castor to the kerosene before adding the ether. It won't mix, but the ether allows it to.
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Post  robot797 on Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:59 am

well i never heard of castor not mixing with gasoline
the castor I uses is made for dirt bike racers
it mixed without any problems
maybe it is because I also use a part normal 2 stroke?
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Post  getback on Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:23 am

Nice project Robot797 i have seen these ignition systems and wonder how it can fire at the right time without knowing the timing /stroke , anyway thanks for sharing ! Babe Bee .049
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Post  gkamysz on Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:05 am

robot797 wrote:well i never heard of castor not mixing with gasoline
the castor I uses is made for dirt bike racers
it mixed without any problems
maybe it is because I also use a part normal 2 stroke?

This is a fun project. I was going to do a gasser .049 this winter, but have not gotten to it yet. Castor made for engine applications will readily blend at normal temperatures. Many have a warning that it will fall out of suspension at lower temperatures. ~35-40°F, 1-5°C. Castor from the drug store may not blend at all with petroleum based fuels.
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:54 am

Read somewhere that OS and I think Norvel have gassers that uses a special glow plug instead, capable of staying hot enough by catalysing with gasoline. Then one could dispense with the electronic spark ignition.
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Post  robot797 on Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:06 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:Read somewhere that OS and I think Norvel have gassers that uses a special glow plug instead, capable of staying hot enough by catalysing with gasoline. Then one could dispense with the electronic spark ignition.

yea its the os g5

but it cant be used for a conversion

as quoted for the os page

G5 Glow/Gas OSMG2714 Optimized for gasoline/oil engines that use a glow plug instead of a spark plug for ignition. Not intended for use with glow powered engines.

https://www.osengines.com/glowplugs/index.html
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:36 pm

robot797 wrote:yea its the os g5 but it cant be used for a conversion as quoted for the os page

G5 Glow/Gas OSMG2714 Optimized for gasoline/oil engines that use a glow plug instead of a spark plug for ignition. Not intended for use with glow powered engines.

https://www.osengines.com/glowplugs/index.html

I think what they mean is, you can't use the plug for a glow engine on glow fuel, wasn't meant to catalyze glow fuel.

However, provided that it uses the standard 1/4x32 glow plug thread, and that it can be successfully mounted on a glow engine without fitment problems,
That doesn't prevent one from giving it a shot on a glow engine that's using gasoline for fuel. Popcorn drunken Beer Cheers
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Post  robot797 on Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:32 am

mmmmm maybe your right
might have to try it sometime
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Post  gkamysz on Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:46 pm

It can be used for conversion, however, it's not as simple as a plug change for virtually all engines. I did an FS-120S with a Walbro carb, but it doesn't run quite right without plug heat and still needs some increase in compression ratio. Norvel uses a very hot OS plug which happens to be a turbo type. Glow carbs may or may not be acceptable for gasoline.
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Post  robot797 on Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:29 pm

gkamysz wrote:It can be used for conversion, however, it's not as simple as a plug change for virtually all engines. I did an FS-120S with a Walbro carb, but it doesn't run quite right without plug heat and still needs some increase in compression ratio. Norvel uses a very hot OS plug which happens to be a turbo type. Glow carbs may or may not be acceptable for gasoline.

thanks for the info
I still gonna try it though
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Post  robot797 on Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:47 pm

Who know a good use for this engine?
because I am thinking of putting it in my micro boat
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Post  robot797 on Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:00 am

HI
I just thought of something
if I were to get a flywheel that has a bit more mass
and a simple (homemade) ignition box
I could make a hitt and miss cox

would anyone here be interested if i were to do that?
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Post  coxaddict on Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:17 pm

Thinking outside of the box always gets my attention.  Do you think The old spark ignition engines could be converted to gas?
Huh... Huh...
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Post  robot797 on Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:58 pm

coxaddict wrote:Thinking outside of the box always gets my attention.  Do you think The old spark ignition engines could be converted to gas?
Huh... Huh...
arrent they gas from the factory?
becaus of the ignition
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Post  batjac on Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:31 pm

This seems like a cool “Just for Fun” project, but not really usable. Now, if I could source some really light ignition components and do this on a Medallion .15 engine, it might make a fun power plant for a 30’s or 40’s free flight design converted for RC. Heck, I’d even try an ignition control line with a Medallion 15 if the electronics were light enough. In fact, I can think of just the control line design for that.

The Old Timer Mark
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:55 pm

coxaddict wrote:Thinking outside of the box always gets my attention.  Do you think The old spark ignition engines could be converted to gas? Huh... Huh...

The early "gassers" (ignition) were gasoline powered, see Sceptre Flight Model Engine Tests, Brown Junior Model D

Sorry for being a little long winded, but I found it fascinating the history of using a .60 ignition gas engine of only 0.25 hp to fly a 7 to 8 foot cabin model weighing 6 or 7 lbs. turning a 13 - 16 inch prop. This is not bad for a 1934 motor.

Feb 1957 Model Airplane News wrote:The Brown Junior was, of course, a spark ignition two-cycle motor running on a mixture of ordinary gasoline ["white" no lead gas] and #70 motor oil; had a cylinder bore of 7/8 in. and a stroke of 1 in., giving a displacement of .601 cu. in. For its size it was extremely light, the complete engine, less fuel tank and ignition coil, weighing only 7-1/2 oz.

[....]

Twenty years ago, the average model aircraft engine was operated at speeds of between one-third and one-half those common today. Four to five thousand rpm, using 14 in., 15 in. or even 16 in. diameter props, were usual with a Brown. With type of model then being built, of course, there was little demand for high propeller speeds or high power outputs. Most .60 engines were nominally rated as "1/5th horsepower motors." Such an output was generally available at somewhere between 4000 and 5000 rpm. although, in actual fact, a peak power of about 1/4 hp. could be obtained in the region of 6000 to 7000 rpm.

This is indicated by our test figures for the Model D, which, it will be observed, actually produced the quite commendable output of 0.258 bhp at 6,200 rpm. This horsepower figure, it will be noted, roughly corresponds with that for a good, modern contest engine of .15 cu.in. - one-quarter of the Brown's displacement - a remarkable commentary on the progress that has been made in model engine development.

We must not lost sight of the fact, however, that the modern engine has to peak at revolutions 2 - 2-1/2 times as high as the Brown and will probably be using a prop of only 8 in. diameter or less. The Brown, on the other hand, will be delivering it maximum power on a 13-14 in. prop. Prewar [WW2] gas models were, of course, relatively large, generally spanning (for a Brown) around 7-8 feet and weighing 6 or 7 lbs, and the Brown was certainly far better suited to this type of model than would be a high-speed modern small engine.

This Cox gasser would put out less RPM than it would under glow. However, provided that one doesn't overheat it (may need a Texaco glow plug head or possibly even a heat sink head for a car), I could see it turning a larger propeller (8 or 9 inch?) for say may be a 5 foot wingspan Paa Loader of the 1950's, or may be power a boat. Would it really be able to do such? That I don't know, but I think the possibilities are fascinating.

Gasoline has a higher heating value than Methanol. It would be more economical as one doesn't need to carry as much fuel as they would with glow.

The prospects seem promising, thanks for posting the video, seems to have decent RPM.
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Post  coxaddict on Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:09 pm

I'm not familiar with spark ignition engines as I  didn't know they ran on gas .  Maybe you can mix a little nitro to get more power for your boat. I used to add a little glow fuel to my gas powered weed whacker and boy did it have a lot of power!lol! lol!
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