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Post  NEW222 Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:49 pm

Just like a new engine. I like your blueing methods. I have not done it yet like that, but I must ask. Do you blue the insides too, as I am assuming you do. If so, is there any other prep needed to run the engine again?
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Post  GallopingGhostler Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:43 pm

Bob, great job, it gives very little hint of its former neglected life, indeed a very well done transformation and restoration. I have no doubts that it will also be a good runner also. Given that it is a slightly larger displacement 0.060, I imagine that its performance ought to be quite respectable, if nothing else at least comparable to a Cox .049 Babe Bee or may be even a Golden Bee.

I managed to pick up a bluing kit in Albuquerque a few weeks ago. It will be my first, now I'll be able to restore the bluing on my steel cylinder engines and needle valves.
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Post  Jason_WI Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:46 pm

That looks good. What bluing kit do you use? I have a small Birchwoof Casey bluing kit I have used on the .15 cylinders that were rusty. Turned out ok if I repeated the process a second time.
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:59 am

Aurora .060 rusty and unresponsive - Page 2 Wv_cox19
Aurora .060 rusty and unresponsive - Page 2 Wv_cox18

Brownell's Oxpho blue, the best and over time I have tried them all.  I used to buy it by the quart.  

I used to use swimming pool acid to remove the old bluing, but vinegar or even Simple Green will take it off on the small stuff associated with our hobby.  I turned Eric onto it sometime ago, but I think he uses Birchwood/Casey.  

Remove any rust and old blue. I have used a wire wheel on slow speed gently applied at times on really bad rust, but not time time on the .060.

Immerse in the solution for around a minute, wash off with cold water and neutralize with a light oil, then burnish, clean and do again.  I haven't done a second application yet on the Aurora's engine.

Some metals take the process better than others.

Aurora .060 rusty and unresponsive - Page 2 Mccoy_14


Easy.
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Post  getback Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:09 am

Yes i use the cheaper stuff at the time it made a big diff. at 10-12 $ more at Walmart Very Happy It works ok as far as i can tell does need two times in though. Engine Looks Great Bob . Cool
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:36 am

Bob, Brownell did a really good job on that McCoy .35 Red Head, clean and consistent bluing. First time I've seen a media blasted one. Did it come that way, or did you clean it by bead blasting it?

I got Birchwood Casey Permablue kit (3 oz. bottles), was the only thing available, but paid under $20 for it. Got no idea whether its good or not, will know more when I try.

Aurora .060 rusty and unresponsive - Page 2 82244f10

Have noticed that some steel fin Foxes must have not been blued, or may have been "browned" using another chemical system. (Or, is it native but uniform rust? Huh... ) I've seen a few firearms that the steel was browned, they looked sharp with a twist on a slightly different finish.

That would make for an interesting engine variant by browning the cylinder instead of bluing.
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:01 am

Yes, aluminum oxide I think but it may have been Black Magic as I switch off.

Nasty thing when I got it, but it cleaned up well. Some I rub out with fine steel wool and a light oil. Gives a much more natural finish, but I liked this one so much I just left it. Found a prop drive washer, washer and nut so it's complete now.

And, yes, I plan on running that Aurora .060. I have never ran an Aurora engine before. Come-on warmer weather.......

Cabin fever in WV.

Bob
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Post  Bretherman Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:21 pm

@rsv1cox wrote:Aurora .060 rusty and unresponsive - Page 2 Wv_cox19
Aurora .060 rusty and unresponsive - Page 2 Wv_cox18

Brownell's Oxpho blue, the best and over time I have tried them all.  I used to buy it by the quart.  

I used to use swimming pool acid to remove the old bluing, but vinegar or even Simple Green will take it off on the small stuff associated with our hobby.  I turned Eric onto it sometime ago, but I think he uses Birchwood/Casey.  

Remove any rust and old blue. I have used a wire wheel on slow speed gently applied at times on really bad rust, but not time time on the .060.

Immerse in the solution for around a minute, wash off with cold water and neutralize with a light oil, then burnish, clean and do again.  I haven't done a second application yet on the Aurora's engine.

Some metals take the process better than others.

Aurora .060 rusty and unresponsive - Page 2 Mccoy_14


Easy.

Beautifully done.

What is that burnishing step that you use in bluing?

I've read some people would use #0000 steel wool with oil to rub parts down after bluing. Is that the essence of it?

Then I'm guessing you clean, blue again (if needed) and finish off with that same burnishing step?
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Post  rsv1cox Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:15 pm

Hot blue (gunsmiths process) works so much better than cold blue and you can burnish (polish) with oiled fine steel wool.  But if you use it on cold blue your going to remove or reduce the bluing.  

Use a soft tooth brush and oil on the fins of you want a more shiny finish, polish with a cotton cloth.  leave as is for a matte.  

Wish I had taken a "before" picture of that McCoy. Nasty was to nice a word.

Bob
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Post  Mark Boesen Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:26 pm

[quote="GallopingGhostler"]Bob, Brownell did a really good job on that McCoy .35 Red Head, clean and consistent bluing. First time I've seen a media blasted one. Did it come that way, or did you clean it by bead blasting it?

I got Birchwood Casey Permablue kit (3 oz. bottles), was the only thing available, but paid under $20 for it. Got no idea whether its good or not, will know more when I try.

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I've used this stuff for years, Walmart
lasts forever too
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Post  rsv1cox Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:35 pm

It's all about the same Mark, a lot of it is in the touch.  The more you do the better you are at it.

From my McCoy days.  Guess i did about a dozen.  Engine high heat red resembles a couple of MG engines I did.

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Post  Bretherman Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:23 pm

@rsv1cox wrote:It's all about the same Mark, a lot of it is in the touch.  The more you do the better you are at it.

From my McCoy days.  Guess i did about a dozen.  Engine high heat red resembles a couple of MG engines I did.

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Beautiful.

I've ordered a bottle of the Oxpho-Blue after seeing your initial pictures.

This YouTube video I found today shows an interesting method where you can dilute it in 9:1 water to bluing liquid, and use that to do a few coats.

(Starts at the 9:45 mark):



I think I might try this method as I'm guessing it'll use less liquid if the container is sized right.
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Post  Mark Boesen Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:30 pm

@rsv1cox wrote:It's all about the same Mark, a lot of it is in the touch.  The more you do the better you are at it.

From my McCoy days.  Guess i did about a dozen.  Engine high heat red resembles a couple of MG engines I did.

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Aurora .060 rusty and unresponsive - Page 2 P1010664

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yep, i used to have a jar of plain black oxide, worked about the same. Q-tips work good for me.
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Post  OhBee Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:36 pm

Thats a car engine?...My 48 yr. old motorcycle has a bigger engine than that! 😊
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Post  davidll1984 Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:59 pm

affraid nooo u literaly destroy inside of that por engine cylinder if y use gun blue y never never never use inside gun barel just out side did say never yes tink u just destroyed its cylinder y se in picturs bath of that stuf no no its Not how we did that only out side use tape wit toilet paper inside cylinder y want To hear them run tink wil run poore performance now and Not long just couple run wil just destroye its piston coating and left engine wit Not mutch compression sory for saying Old Bugger Neutral
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Post  davidll1984 Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:14 pm

Ok let me explain wy it hi corrosive stuf its layer of oxid make the color and inside now has inside cylinder just remove the layer inside wil make engine wit lower compression the stuf inside wil make engine over heat tink use lot of oil wil change noting so in best case scénario the stuf wil wear out faster than the piston use sintec oil it may help is a way To infinit brake in To reduce wear
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Post  Cribbs74 Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:32 pm

I have had some problems with soaking a cylinder in gun blue before. It seems to be fine if dunked in and taken out after a min or two, but if you let it sit you can say goodbye to the compression and the cylinder for that matter.

These days it’s a brush on and rinse off affair. Although I haven’t done it in a long while.
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Post  Oldenginerod Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:42 am

I usually dunk for a few seconds, wait for it to react, and rinse a couple of times and I've never noticed any problems with compression.

Edit:  That's using Perma blue.
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Post  Bretherman Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:23 am

Interesting, I was going to try the submerging method, but I didn't think much of the cylinder walls being blued.
I'll be brushing it on the outside only.
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Post  rsv1cox Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:43 am

I have to agree with Rod and Ron.

I have done many cylinders using the full emersion method, something less than 60 seconds max and never had a problem with losing compression. But I always burnish the cylinder with a brass brush and light oil which removes most if not all of the blue anyway. Cold blue just does not stand up to wear like hot blue.

But, when immersed, ensure all bubbles of air within the cylinders fins are removed by swishing it around a bit.

Either way, brush on or emersion is going to make an old abused cylinder look new again.
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Post  rsv1cox Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:28 am

@OhBee wrote:Thats a car engine?...My 48 yr. old motorcycle has a bigger engine than that!    😊

Yeah, that's a whopping 1275 cc. Smile

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Post  Oldenginerod Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:48 pm

@rsv1cox wrote:
@OhBee wrote:Thats a car engine?...My 48 yr. old motorcycle has a bigger engine than that!    😊

Yeah, that's a whopping 1275 cc. Smile


And that's the bigger version!!  When used in the Morris Minor it was 850 cc. The 1275 was seen as the "Hot Rod" engine in the Mini Cooper.
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Post  rsv1cox Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:55 pm

@Oldenginerod wrote:
@rsv1cox wrote:
@OhBee wrote:Thats a car engine?...My 48 yr. old motorcycle has a bigger engine than that!    😊

Yeah, that's a whopping 1275 cc. Smile


And that's the bigger version!!  When used in the Morris Minor it was 850 cc.  The 1275 was seen as the "Hot Rod" engine in the Mini Cooper.

Yeah, I'm not ashamed of it.  If it will power a tractor what's not to love.

Then there's the massive 1800 cc out of my MGB.

Aurora .060 rusty and unresponsive - Page 2 Mgb_en13


Aurora .060 rusty and unresponsive - Page 2 Mgb_en12

and............between those is the 1500 cc Spitfire engine and we all know the Spit won the battle of Britain.  

Aurora .060 rusty and unresponsive - Page 2 Midget23

Iddy bitty............... says who. Smile


Brits forever................................. Smile

Bob
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Post  Oldenginerod Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:10 pm

@rsv1cox wrote:

Brits forever................................. Smile

Bob

Just keep the drip tray handy lol!

(Even Rolls Royces leak oil)
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Post  Levent Suberk Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:14 pm

@Bretherman wrote:Interesting, I was going to try the submerging method, but I didn't think much of the cylinder walls being blued.
I'll be brushing it on the outside only.

Clean parts with naphta, lighter fluid and a tooth brush. Use rubber gloves to avoid finger prints. Immediately blue the parts after cleaning because cleaned steel rusts quickly.

Do not blue inside of cylinder. You can use a balloon in cylinder to block inside. Oil parts after bluing.
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