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Post  OhBee on Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:21 am

So....getting back into this. Last plane I built was a Voodoo in 1966-67. What glue do we use nowadays to assemble balsa?....NOT a fan of ANY CA products....not in a big hurry!......and sadly found out there is no more Ambroid!....What is this world coming to?
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Post  Ken Cook on Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:43 am

Carpenters yellow glue and epoxy
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Post  Cribbs74 on Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:46 am

Sig-ment, epoxy and CA is what I use.

I have also used Sig-Bond which is basically yellow carpenter glue.
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Post  OhBee on Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:27 am

I wondered about sigbond. Any carpenters type wood glue I ever used was way too slow drying,and stuff gets out of alignment!
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Post  944_Jim on Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:47 am

Like Ron Cribbs, I use Sig-ment (smells like Ambroid) for balsa frame up (wings, fuselages, ), epoxy in 5 minute and 30 minute types for strength on mixed material and metal-to-wood (motor mounts, landing gear), yellow glues for sheeting thin stuff, and CA when I need it stuck fast (as long as no sanding is going to be required).
Oh, and JB Weld for encapsulating anything string-wound, like landing gear to plywood mounts.
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Post  ticomareado on Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:39 am

I used to use a lot of Duco at $0.99 a 1 oz. tube at Family Dollar Store. They quit stocking it after the chain was bought out by Dollar Tree about five or six years ago. Wal mart used to carry it too, but they dropped it along about the same time. Duco was Joe Wagner's favorite glue.
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Post  rsv1cox on Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:53 pm

Ken Cook wrote:          Carpenters yellow glue and epoxy

X2 only I would add CA. My shaky hands dictate a drop of CA to hold parts together then back up with one of the others that may resist clamping.
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Post  getback on Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:46 pm

As far as capenders glues i think the titebond 2 premium is superior to others from what i have experienced   https://www.google.com/search?q=titebond+2+premium&oq=titebond+2+premium&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8  for CAs Zap glue of choice have used Bobs but i don't like the way it sets with activator I keep thin / med./thick and slow set on hand . Very Happy
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Post  OhBee on Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:46 pm

Thanks guys...didn't know Duco would work. I have lots of that as I use it to fletch wooden arrows  that I make for one of my other passions...traditional archery!  It's definitly not a buck a tube anymore though! I've used Titebond wood glue for other projects,...that titebond II premium sounds like a winner!
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Post  Eddy on Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:05 pm

Hi OhBee. Like some others here, I switched to Sig-Ment when Ambroid became unavailable. I finished building a Super Clown before last Thanksgiving, for this summers Old Time Stunt event for control line. I used thin CA at times to tack the ribs in when they are aligned just right. I will go back and finish with Sig-Ment. I usually use Tite Bond on the plywood doubler and motor mounts. I am at the time almost done building an original Sterling T-Square, to fly in the 50's event. There will be no combat with this plane, as a Fox Stunt .35 will be the power. While building the T-Square, I again used thin CA to tack the ribs in and align as such, then finish with Sig-Ment again. The leading and trailing edges on the T-Square, use a 1/16" X 2" sheet over the ribs, and the leading edge has to be bent and formed over the leading edge of the ribs. This time I use thick CA to tack with a drop, the 1/16" sheet to the top of the ribs and when set, I will moisten the top of the 1/16 sheet and run a line of thick CA on the exposed ribs to cover. Then simply lay the wing on a flat surface, slowly roll the wing over the 1'16" sheet to glue to stand on the exact center leading edge, holding the wing tight for a few seconds to set the CA. I don't like to use CA any more than needed as it is brittle when dry, The Sig-Ment and Tite Bond are flexable and will give some in a crash, at least that's how I see it.
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Post  fredvon4 on Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:21 pm

Tracking number 9534616329410043194978
Delivered

February 20, 06:42AM
Chatfield, MN

so Steve did you get my gift or not
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Post  OhBee on Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:17 pm

Got back atcha Fred!......

Yeah I use ca for various things but it gets so hard and brittle I wasn"t sure it would be too good on balsa!
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Post  Ken Cook on Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:36 pm

A major problem with solvent based glues like Ambroid, Testors and Duco is that they shrink and keep shrinking just like any cellulose based product. Therefore if your sheeting with light wood, it's going to horse starve in between ribs, formers. aliphatic glues will swell and do the opposite. Therefore knowing how much to apply is important. You have to be exceptionally careful using aliphatic glues on laser cut kits. That means dots vs liberally applying as it will warp the bejeezus out of the wood.Laser cut kits are the complete opposite of die cut kits.

When parts were die cut, the harder pieces yielded the most exactness and thoroughness in terms of seeing it was cut all the way through. Laser cutting doesn't work as well with heavier lb wood and only lighter pieces are used because they don't char and burn distorting the piece. The older die cut kits need to be glued and then assembled whereas the laser cut kits need to be jigged up and spot glued with CA. If you try to assemble a laser cut kit in the same manner as the older, the chances of a wing turning into a pretzel is pretty high. Even solvent based glues are going to contract causing issues.

The free flight crowd liked using Ambroid because it would offer flexibility. The glue was concentrated only to the joint and where applied. CA wicks and when it does, it creates a stress riser in the wood which now becomes the breaking point. So I don't agree at all that CA offers flexibility because it doesn't. A CA joint or repair will break fore or aft of what already has been repaired.
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Post  rsv1cox on Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:58 pm

Words of wisdom Ken.

Just look at those tubes of Ambroid that I sent to Kim. Nice and fat when I got them, collapsed upon themselves when I sent them.

I do use CA as a construction aid but I usually back it up with something. But I must confess that wasn't always the case.

Bob

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Post  dirk gently on Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:59 am

I just use CA for nearly everything (that doesn't require filling a gap). CA is awesome. Can't imagine building models without CA. I built my first kit with PVA as per instructions, and it was a nightmare. CA just flows (wicks) where it needs to go, grabs instantly and is plenty strong enough to form a bond that's stronger than the surrounding wood.
Never had a problem with sanding, you'd have to go totally overboard with the quantity of the glue for this to be an issue.
Nowadays I even use CA to glue firewalls in nitro-powered models, then just fuelproof the joint with thinned-down epoxy, along with all the rest of the engine bay.

To each his own, I guess.
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Post  OhBee on Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:55 pm

Any specific CA's one should use? Or is "super glue" super glue?
No way I can get the LE,TE and ribs properly lined up on this kit with a slow drying glue. About to give up. No slots in LE or ribs...all has to be marked first and they're all butt joints. LE is a square stick and TE is a tapered wedge. How do you keep them properly lined up?

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Post  944_Jim on Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:11 pm

My build board is a chunk of kitchen countertop with 1/2" cork tiles glued down (3M type spray contact adhesive). Sig-ment (fastest set), or Sig-bond/yellow carpenter's glue (slower set)  is used in a double-glued joint. This depends on how quickly/easilly the dry fit.went.

One at a time...pin 1/8" deep in place. Go from inside to out, or outside to inside.
Just whatever pattern you use on one side, you mirror on the other.
It helps if dry fit and pinned (1/8" deep) once to watch for "oh, shoot" as you dry fit. If this goes swimmingly, then the entire wing can be disassembled and glued up as fast as you dare.

If not, then one or two ribs (opposite ends of wing) every few hours. The interval is dictated by how quickly the previous joint(s) set(s).

Outside,.inside, next in from outside, next in from inside, middle. Then do the same on the other wing.
If one long wing, then Left out, Right out, left innermost, right on inner most, and work your way to the center of each side.

Think automotive heads/gaskets studs. Back and forth, back and forth.

If you carefully remove the pins, then you can sink them deeper, in the same hole later. This is what I alluded to earlier, when I said it could go quickly if jigged up first (practice run). The practice run lets you find the gotchas while no glue gobs exist.

The yellow glues can be soaked or (very) wet-wiped,.and disassembled for a second try without much collateral damage until they hard-set in place.
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Post  dirk gently on Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:34 pm

OhBee wrote:Any specific CA's  one should use? Or is "super glue" super glue?

Glue is just glue basically, whatever you buy will probably be adequate. Applicators, on the other hand, that's where manufacturers and brands vary wildely. A lot of glue is sold with applicators that are way to big for our purposes, others get clogged almost immediately. I only use a certain brand of domestic-grade CA in 2ml tubes. Hobby grade CA bottles will always get clogged, no matter how well I wipe them after every use or how much attention I put into always storing them upright.

As far as the glue itself goes, I would stick to the really thin stuff, thick CA has no advantages over other glues for me, and has all the disadvantages of CA
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Post  OhBee on Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:17 pm

Not my pic.....but this is impossible...Kit building 55 yrs. later Images10......no dry fit even possible  with this . All butt joints w/gussets. How do you keep it all perpindicular without it all going kittywampus on you?  1/2" thick square LE...thin tapered  TE. Can't even keep it lined up on a flat surface!   ...Maybe I just can't do this stuff anymore?
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Post  944_Jim on Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:34 am

Legoes...lots of Legoes. Oh, and waxed paper.
Leave the gussets for after the ribs and edges are assembled.
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Post  OhBee on Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:04 am

Well there sure arn't any legos around here!!... Instructions say gussets first?! I think its a dumb way to build a wing!
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