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From $30.84 to wonderful, to bad, to trash can? Empty

From $30.84 to wonderful, to bad, to trash can?

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From $30.84 to wonderful, to bad, to trash can? Empty From $30.84 to wonderful, to bad, to trash can?

Post  rsv1cox Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:25 pm

Unless someone has a fix?

From $30.84 to wonderful, to bad, to trash can? Nasty_16
From $30.84 to wonderful, to bad, to trash can? Nasty_17

Carburetor cleaner.  Beats the crock pot anytime for cleaning engines. Looked like new (check pictures below) when I removed it after an hour soak. Didn't even need to brush it. Then into Marvel Mystery oil.   Everything locked up, glow head, case screws, piston/crank.  Broke out the heat gun, sizzling hot!  Nothing moved.  Started deforming the glow head using the 360 degree Cox wrench.  Started removing the case screws with my custom cut Cox screwdriver.  Wow, NEVER had any like this!  With much difficulty I got three out but the last one said no and gave up the slot.  The three that came out were rusty in the middle, this one had swallowed water.  Needle was rusty too but came out using yes..pliers.  

Case much to hot for a propeller so I used lock washers and my pre-drilled never fail Cox wrench.  Scarred the drive washer and snapped off the post trying to free the piston/crank.  How many of these have I taken apart?  Anyone have a count?  In the hundreds. This is the first one to take me to the cleaners but externally, it looks great, at least it did before I used the crock pot and removed most of the anodizing on the back-plate.

Anyone have a fix?

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Post  Marleysky Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:44 pm

Ya just gotta have one to drive ya NUTS!  I would carefully drill ( or grind) off the head of the last tankback screw, allowing tank to separate from crankcase. Flamewrench the remaining stud and with vicegrips twist it out. Use centerpunch on the broken prop stud to drive off the drive plate...After removing the cylinder and crank off the crankpin. You don't wanna be beating on the crankshaft while the con-rod is still attached to the crank.  Hopefully the cylinder threads out of the crankcase, but with what you've shown so far I wouldn't hold my breath. Good luck, keep us posted on your progress.

PS: I would also give it another 24hr soak in the AF crockpot just to loosen up the crud.
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Post  crankbndr Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:15 pm

FIX one of my favorite tools

From $30.84 to wonderful, to bad, to trash can? Screen27
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Post  Yabby Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:17 pm

I Love This Forum! lol! Old Bugger Eyebrows Laughing

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Post  crankbndr Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:24 pm

What round for Bee
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Post  Admin Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:43 pm

At least it looks nice on the outside  lol!  .

I've been there done that with stuck backplate screws before. So bad, a corner of the case blew out. Fortunately, it turned out the case was already toast, so no additional loss there.

From $30.84 to wonderful, to bad, to trash can? Img_5112

From $30.84 to wonderful, to bad, to trash can? Img_5110
Corrosion ate hole through case.

I'd try carefully drilling the head off the screw so you can remove the tank and backplate. Then hit the threads with liquid wrench and some heat, then try to carefully turn the rest of the screw out with some vice-grips. More soak and heat cycles for the rest of the engine.

I've seen you clean up some pretty rough engines in the past. You're not going to let this engine defeat you, are you? Cool

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Post  Admin Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:50 pm

@crankbndr wrote:FIX   one of my favorite tools

From $30.84 to wonderful, to bad, to trash can? Screen27

From $30.84 to wonderful, to bad, to trash can? S-l16029

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Post  rsv1cox Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:39 pm

@Admin wrote:At least it looks nice on the outside  lol!  .

You're not going to let this engine defeat you, are you? Cool

Wasn't it Elvis that said "Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead", and "I have not yet begun to fight."  Can't let Elvis get ahead of me.....again!

Went through my Dremel stuff and came up with a few things that might let me grind the machine screw's head flat, center punch (carefully) and drill the head off, then pry off the blackplate.  

I already tried a drill bit.  Got the smallest bit I could find and chucked it up high with only about a half inch showing so it wouldn't flex and still snapped it off inside the slot.  Sad

From $30.84 to wonderful, to bad, to trash can? P1011680

Meanwhile it sits next to cousin Enya also desperately in need of help.

From $30.84 to wonderful, to bad, to trash can? P1011681

Lesson learned: Parts cleaner, heat, and crock pot is great for baked on castor and general crud but does nothing for rust!  Wish you could have seen that needle and those case screws when I first took them out.
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Post  Levent Suberk Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:52 am

Dipping the engine in kerosene can work to remove rust.
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Post  sosam117 Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:27 am

@Levent Suberk wrote:Dipping the engine in kerosene can work to remove rust.

If moisture got in there, hopefully the kerosene will too?
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Post  Cribbs74 Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:04 am

Evaporust. Let it sit in there for a day and see what happens.
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:39 am

If the crank is rusted, and the piston to the cylinder, this thing is toast. I'm thinking parts! I want to save the fuel tank and backplate, those things are like gold to me.

This wrench was built for this engine and it wouldn't touch it, even after parts cleaner, pot boil, and heat. Glow head started giving up the ghost, to say nothing about the flats on top of the cylinder. Sent me whipped off to the woodshed. Sad............ Not ready for the hammer option yet, I want to see what's in there!!!

From $30.84 to wonderful, to bad, to trash can? P1011684
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Post  crankbndr Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:53 am

I tend to be a patient man but once I cross the line no going back!
HACKSAW!!


From $30.84 to wonderful, to bad, to trash can? Dsc01012
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:05 pm

@crankbndr wrote:I tend to be a patient man but once I cross the line no going back!
HACKSAW!!


From $30.84 to wonderful, to bad, to trash can? Dsc01012

You are a hard case CB............Smile
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:07 pm

Wow!

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Post  crankbndr Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:35 pm

Thats a huckleberry over my persimmon.
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Post  Admin Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:01 pm

Making progress! Eyebrows

Hows the inside of the engine look? Any serious rust?

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Post  rsv1cox Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:23 pm

The crank shaft doesn't look to bad, seen worse.

Took the glow head, case, cylinder, crank, drive washer assembly out of the mystery oil and put it in kerosene per Levent.  Will let it soak overnight then try to remove that broken screw and the glow head.  Heat seems to do no good so I don't have high hopes. Mostly worried about getting the case screw out and the broken off post out of the crankshaft.  Nothing there to grab on to.

The tapered Dremel grind stone worked great to remove the top (broken slot) of the case screw, left a nice little dimple to guide the drill bit, no need to center punch.

Back plate would not separate from the fuel tank, had to heat it to remove.  Got the fuel tank off by coming in from one of the mount screw holes with a drift to remove the fuel tank/backplate from the case.  Everything was stuck on this engine.
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:33 pm

@crankbndr wrote:Thats a huckleberry over my persimmon.

I'll raise you one hickory nut and a maple tree.
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Post  Cribbs74 Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:47 pm

Bob,

Glad you had some success. Still think you should dunk it in evaporust however, you seem to be doing ok. Kerosene may help. Diesel would also be a good option.

The screw should come out of the case easily now that you have some to grip with.

I am sure you already know, but to remove the head you need to heat the cylinder not the head. The aluminum will expand quickly and lock it in tight if done the other way around.

If it were me…. Once you have the head off you can crack the cylinder free and see if it slowly pulls the piston. Be super careful as you could pull the rod out of the ball socket. Worst case you do pull the rod out then you can get a punch and just drive the piston out. I have many spare .049 pistons for you if needed.

Not sure why there is a drag starter spring in there without the hex driveplate, but whatever.

I say all this as I have seen rustier engines come back to life using the original cleaned up parts.

Ron
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:25 pm

From $30.84 to wonderful, to bad, to trash can? P1011695

This is what worries me most Ron, the only way I can turn this over is to use pliers on the drive washer, don't want to do that but I have other brass replacements.

I may fill the case with that Evirorust rust first and let it set for a couple of days. I have been thinking, heat the cylinder and drop an ice cube on the glow head.

I was amazed at how well that parts cleaner worked. (Walmart $21) You have probably used it to clean engine parts. An hour or so and it came out sparkling clean. Check before and after pics. Crock pot took almost all the finish off the backplate, but I had little choice, I wanted to take it apart.

Maybe I will give it the Hat Check Floozy treatment and paint the pack plate if I ever get it running.

This back plate was (and still is) a disaster.

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I have never seen a back plate so abused. I think the PO might have tightened the case screws a bit to much.
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Post  NEW222 Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:13 pm

Wow. That backplate was snug if I do say so myself!
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Post  KariFS Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:56 pm

@Cribbs74 wrote:
Not sure why there is a drag starter spring in there without the hex driveplate, but whatever.

There was a version of the starter cam with a small round hole. This design was not produced for a long time. My first engine (Babe Bee) had it, and I have maybe 2-3 other engines with this type of cam. I think most, if not all, RC Bees had it. This is the only picture I have handy that shows the cam.

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Post  Levent Suberk Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:35 am

Good work Very Happy

A red starter cam for round driveplates manufactured at the time, and they are rare at least I know. I heard that Cox also prototyped red starter cam for hex driveplates.

I have one used red starter cam for round driveplates, and if you want then please send your address with PM. No cost at all, it is free.
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Post  getback Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:21 am

Man that engine has worked you , but you got in there and did what needed to bee done ! Looking good hopefully the prop sc. will decide to give in also . For future ref. the drill bit to take the head off don't have to bee no bigger than the shank of the screw , this way you want have to worry about marring up the other surface * The head will pop off when your there * Very Happy
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