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Post  rsv1cox Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:50 pm

For a plastic airplane there are a lot of things that I like about it.

First of all it was built to fly.  While it resembles a trainer there is not another full scale or model that resembles it.  The wing is the thing.  Airfoil, not a flat sheet of plastic or balsa.  The bell crank is unique and something that I'm still trying to figure out.

This one was flown and flown a lot.  Not a one and done like many.  The engines starter works, and the engine has perfect compression.  I Removed the glow head and the combustion chamber is clean, but the head is bad. Ok I have more heads.  I could not get the back-plate off despite my best efforts.  But I do give up easy on these.  

The fuel tank is neat, comes apart with a single screw, but it has a crack that the PO tried to fix, I removed the glue, epoxy I think, I have a better fix.

Hydrogen peroxide is not an option.  Hot castor and fuel have wormed their way deep into the plastic.  Celebrate it or paint.  Think I will celebrate.  Broken cowl is an easy fix.

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Post  NEW222 Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:41 pm

rsv1cox wrote:The bell crank is unique and something that I'm still trying to figure out.

Just a guess, but I may be wrong. would the two holes on the straight piece be screwed or riveted to the plane somewhere, somehow as a bellcrank mount, then the remaining three holes be for up and down elevator as well as the third hold for the pushrod? Spring may also be attached to one of the holes as a 'safety' as was the rubber band on the Lil Wizard?
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Post  batjac Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:06 pm

rsv1cox wrote:The bell crank is unique and something that I'm still trying to figure out.

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The way it works is that the left side of the bar is screwed to the fuselage.  You can see that the hole is enlarged.  The right side of the bar with the small hole has one end of that spring going through it.  The other end of the spring is attached to the fuselage.  I don't know if this is so that the spring acts as strain relief on the fuselage if a large flight load is imposed on the bellcrank by a wind gust or overenthusiastic pilot.  But it allows the bellcrank to have a little "give" in it.

The Enthusiastic Mark
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Post  roddie Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:40 pm

I replied last night to Robert's questioning of the bellcrank, in his other thread (the one with "trash" in the title.. Laughing ) I'm guessing that the floating "mount" with the spring on one end may have been an effort to dampen over-controlled input on the handle end.
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Post  Oldenginerod Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:59 pm

We've had this discussion before.   lol!
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t6486-gilbert-gadget
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Post  rsv1cox Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:55 am

Oldenginerod wrote:We've had this discussion before.   lol!
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t6486-gilbert-gadget

It's good going back to that thread Rod, a little before my time here.  

This picture has the control line leads going in the wrong direction.

Gilbert SkyFlash - Maybe not trash after all Gilber19

The Gilbert ad has them right.

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Mark has it correct, you can remove the limit screw and get full control.  At least Gilbert put some thought in it, didn't just throw a half-moon in there with three holes.  

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The only hard point other than the pivot is the screw on the left.  

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Post  cstatman Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:10 am

that twin stack sure cleans up pretty... Smile

speaking of ODD control line bellcrank/configurations - anyone here mess with Stanzel single line???
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Post  rsv1cox Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:44 am

cstatman wrote:that twin stack sure cleans up pretty... Smile

speaking of ODD control line bellcrank/configurations - anyone here mess with Stanzel single line???

I had read about it years ago.  Looked it up.  One on ebay right now for $29.95

Gilbert SkyFlash - Maybe not trash after all Stanze10

Trying to put the Gilbert back together.

 Main mount screw to join the two halves.  Machine screw with a nut, no self tappers that can hog out.   For want of a 4/40 X 1 1/4" missing in the original.  Got 5's but slightly too large for the access hole.  Might have one out in the remote garage, cold - 4 this morning, it can stay there until it warms up.

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Also missing were the two 2/56's that retain the engine.  I always thought the two holes in the Gilbert engines were insufficient.  But the holes are tapped and the engines sit in a cradle which Gilbert offset to the outside for C/L flying.

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I pity the people that had to assemble these plastic model planes.  I would think mostly women, tiny nimble fingers and patience.  Men have neither, at least I don't.

Model locomotives, much worse.  Tiny 00 and 000 screws and parts.  I have watched videos of Chinese women assembling locomotives, rows of them each with a job to do.  Amazing eyes and coordination.
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Post  706jim Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:38 am

I took one of those little helicopters apart that had stopped working. It's truly amazing what engineering goes into them plus all the design and mold work to make the plastic parts. All for a retail price of $20-$30.
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Post  Oldenginerod Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:12 pm

While we're looking at Gilbert stuff, how about this?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/265357942640?hash=item3dc890df70:g:Bz0AAOSwyo1hPi6J
My first Gilbert(s) was purchased from Virginia Hobbysports (Henry Werner) probably 8-10 years ago.  Came with the hanging card (opened and engine removed for clean-up), fuel tank, fuel line, screws, control line, wrench, mufflers, the lot apart from a prop & spinner.  Cost me $25.00.  Wish I had of packed it all away as an investment if they reckon they can bring this much these days.  Crazy Eyes

By the way, the wrong prop for this engine is included, being one off of an .07. The 11 had a 7" prop.
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Post  rsv1cox Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:40 pm

I saw that Rod.  Also saw the price.  I would offer $14.99 for the engine and $20 for the package.  Smile

I never did find a longer 4/40 machine screw, amazing that the longest 4/40 that McMaster-carr offers is 1 1/2".  Good thing that I didn't.  I have a bunch of #5's (Those pesky go-missing Cox engine prop screws) that I bought in 2" lengths that fit fine.  I just didn't have all three sections perfectly aligned - top and bottom fuselages and the landing gear.  When I did, the #5 slipped right in.  You can always cut a screw off to shorten it, but you can't add length.  Which reminds me of the old carpenter's joke.  "I've cut this board off three times and it's still too short."  Smile

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Found a couple of pilot guys and friction fitted them in.  Flyable once I replace the burned-out glow head.  

The bell-crank is still a mystery.  With the limiting peg in place there is no "up" just a whole lot of down.  That expansion spring is not a weakling, takes a lot of pull to expand it.  I have tried it many ways and it seems to have little effect on the BC.  

I polished the landing gear with a scrunge pad and aluminum cleaner but that's it.  Parts cleaner reduced the castor stain but I'm leaving it.  When I'm finished with it, it just gets a coat of Howards wax which really brings out the red.  

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I made a replacement for one of the missing lead-outs.

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Gave me a chance to observe the elevator. this is full up with the limit peg in place:

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This is full down:

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Anyone know where I can find black spinners for these, let me know.
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Post  Ken Cook Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:24 am

The controls seem incorrect. They would  need to be the other way around, that's far too much down.
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Post  getback Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:38 am

A lot of differences from a cox for sure , there is a good amount of right thrust to the engine , and thats weird with all the down and don't look like ti can go any other way to correct it . Shocked
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Post  Ken Cook Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:37 am

Then you make it go the other way. lengthen the pushrod
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Post  getback Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:53 am

Ken Cook wrote:       Then you make it go the other way. lengthen the pushrod
Wow if i have became that lost I really need to build something (slap in the face ) Thanks Ken !
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Post  rsv1cox Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:43 am

Ken Cook wrote:The controls seem incorrect. They would  need to be the other way around, that's far too much down.

Strange isn't it. But I have it back to as I received it, and the bell crank is the same as all the others that I have seen. I have another one coming next week in better condition so I will compare the two. May be part of their "Auto Co-pilot" "Preventing over-control" system. You just can't get into trouble with little to no up. We shall see.
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Post  davidll1984 Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:21 am

Definitely not a trash You can see that it has been used a lot he survived so far he should survive the next ones I like the look of this plane the engine is pretty cool too I think the end result is going to be awesome. I think once you finish you won't want to fly it anymore me I would be unable to unhook it from the wall from the fear of destroying it because it would be a shame a plane that has survived all this time there must not be many planes like it left Flying Airplane cheers
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Post  rsv1cox Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:50 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:While we're looking at Gilbert stuff, how about this?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/265357942640?hash=item3dc890df70:g:Bz0AAOSwyo1hPi6J
My first Gilbert(s) was purchased from Virginia Hobbysports (Henry Werner) probably 8-10 years ago.  Came with the hanging card (opened and engine removed for clean-up), fuel tank, fuel line, screws, control line, wrench, mufflers, the lot apart from a prop & spinner.  Cost me $25.00.  Wish I had of packed it all away as an investment if they reckon they can bring this much these days.  Crazy Eyes

By the way, the wrong prop for this engine is included, being one off of an .07.  The 11 had a 7" prop.

How about this Rod: Two new engines covered with cosomoline, four props, two tools, four heads plus mounting hardware for $45.00.

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Just got them today. They have the different smaller starter.

He must have a bunch as he's still offering them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165296042230?hash=item267c6970f6:g:Ak0AAOSwaT1h7E9H

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Post  Oldenginerod Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:51 pm

They look like the kits that Steve (sb1photo) was offering a few years back. He had a lot of Gilbert inventory. That's a pretty good price.
My concern is that it looks like they have plier marks of the fins. Otherwise they look new. Maybe roughly dismantled to free them up from new as they did seem to have the habit of locking up after years of sitting.
That's just a prop driver Bob. No starter spring in these.
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Post  rsv1cox Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:20 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:
That's just a prop driver Bob. No starter spring in these.

That crossed my mind Rod, I should have checked first before saying that.  Just wishing I think.  Sad  The first batch I got out had the starter, so I dug deeper and found these:

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Good thing I did, one has a prop with the black spinner that I have been looking for.  Yes, the new ones do have plier marks, these don't.  I should get off my duff and run one.  Never have that I can recall.

Ha on me!!! 7 spinner is smaller than the 11, a no fit!!!!!!!
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:29 am

Ken Cook wrote:The controls seem incorrect. They would  need to be the other way around, that's far too much down.

Yeah Ken, I had the whole apparatus upside down. Just didn't look right so I took the whole thing apart again.

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Works fine now.
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Post  cstatman Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:35 am

love love love seeing your resto jobs. the care and craftsmanship is brilliant.
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:48 pm

cstatman wrote:love love love seeing your resto jobs.   the care and craftsmanship is brilliant.

Thanks Charles, but perhaps brilliantly stupid. If you need a part installed upside down and backwards, I'm your guy.
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