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"Throttle and muffler contraption"



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Post  Grf4413 Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:28 pm

Does anyone know where I can get a tank for a dragonfly? Think the ranger is the same tank.. Thanks
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Post  GallopingGhostler Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:46 pm

Grf4413 wrote:Does anyone know where I can get a tank for a dragonfly? Think the ranger is the same tank.. Thanks
Basically, the R/C Bee, Ranger and Dragonfly share the same tank (red, white, black were the respective assigned colors for these).
Tank for a dragonfly 2022-022
Left to right: my Dragonfly, R/C Bee, Ranger.

The R/C Bee did not have the extended plastic tank back that added a touch more capacity to the other two. Instead it had a flat plate tank back. Back in the day 30 years ago, I got about 4 minutes flight time on my half-A Minnie Mambo with the R/C Bee. It has a touch more power than the Babe Bee.

I gather that it is possible that some of the Rangers were similar to the R/C Bee, using only a white flat plastic tank back. Only the flat back plate is available now from Ex Model Engines.

http://www.exmodelengines.com/product.php?productid=17611
Tank for a dragonfly Dsc_0510
Ex Model Engines: Cox .049 Ranger Fuel Tank Backplate

The Ranger that I picked up a year or two ago has the extended tank back like the Dragonfly.

The backs have a paper gasket to seal the tank back joint.

Regarding availability, may be 10 years ago, Cox International, Canada and Ex Model Engines had spare tanks from what I recall, but they sold out quickly.

Unless someone has a spare, your best bet is to keep an eye open on the Internet auction sites for a parts engine.
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Post  getback Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:54 am

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Post  getback Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:04 am

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Post  Grf4413 Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:38 pm

That's where I'm looking, on the auction sites.  The tube that the needle valve screws in, can sometimes crack. Tried a little epoxy, maybe some jb weld.  With age not as easy to get and see those places.  Got another question??? The bees, golden bees, black widows, with there tanks have air inlets in the back. Where do the dragonflys rangers and rc bees, get there air from. It also seems like they take more turns open on the needle valves.  Anyhow thanks for answers.
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Post  duaneh Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:59 pm

Hey, GRF;

Are these the only parts you need? Found in my Big Box o' Cox. I don't have the needle valve, clunk, or screws. If you're in CONUS, just PM me your address, and I'll drop them in the mail.

Tank for a dragonfly 100_3610
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Post  GallopingGhostler Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:36 pm

Grf4413 wrote:Where do the dragonflys rangers and rc bees, get there air from. It also seems like they take more turns open on the needle valves.
The air intake for the plastic enhanced capacity tank Bees is located just in front of the needle valve on top of the tank closest to the reed valve assembly.

The finer thread needle valves are the more preferred, were used on the early postage stamp back production engines of the 1960's, also on the Killer Bee I believe.
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Post  rsv1cox Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:00 pm

duaneh wrote:Hey, GRF;

Are these the only parts you need? Found in my Big Box o' Cox. I don't have the needle valve, clunk, or screws. If you're in CONUS, just PM me your address, and I'll drop them in the mail.

Tank for a dragonfly 100_3610

Good deal. Nice of you and a tradition on this forum. Did he take you up on it?
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Aug 01, 2022 1:23 am

getback wrote:This may help , but only 9.50 yrs. to go https://www.ebay.com/itm/265798443990 Small Cox Logo

Tank for a dragonfly S-l16114
Someone got that for a song, Winning bid: US $19.50 + US $5.95 Standard Shipping. Mislabeled, it is an R/C Bee missing the exhaust throttle muffler. One could simply use Bernie's or Matt's throttle ring, and restore the R/C function to it (without the muffling).
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Post  duaneh Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:06 am

rsv1cox wrote:Good deal. Nice of you and a tradition on this forum. Did he take you up on it?

Yes, and the parts are on the way.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:46 am

duaneh wrote:
rsv1cox wrote:Good deal. Nice of you and a tradition on this forum. Did he take you up on it?

Yes, and the parts are on the way.
Fantastic support, @duaneh. These extended capacity plastic tank Bees were perhaps the best of the last of the lot of reed valves, design of the late 1970's. Being slightly more powerful than the Babe Bee, the extended capacity (20 cc's? never measured it Huh... ) were perhaps the best of the Cox sport engines. Eyebrows

Easily giving 4 to 5 minutes of flight time, they were be bee's knees Laughing for the R/C sport pilot. I thoroughly enjoyed my R/C Bee. The tank is also very sturdy.

Back in 1983, I plowed mine into the earth at an open field at Little Rock Air Force Base from about 100 feet up burying the engine a couple inches into the grassed soil. The Delrin nylon tank held up very well.

I made a comment here: https://www.coxengineforum.com/t12651-cox-rc-bee-ad-in-rcm-magazine#162409 back in Feb. 2019.

Apparently there was a development version by engineering (@Larry Renger?) that did have a true rotary valve, the next post after mine.

Admin on Oct 27, 2019 wrote:Wow, this ad connects some dots! There is a picture of an R/C Bee with rear rotary induction posted on Mark's 049Collectors Yahoo group. Labeled a "mystery engine". Shocked
Tank for a dragonfly Myster11
My 36" Sterling Minnie Mambo fuselage was thoroughly destroyed, but the engine survived. It was already on its second cylinder/piston set. I had already worn out the first set on Sig Champion 25% fuel, a good testament to the usefulness of the engine.
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:39 am

duaneh wrote:
rsv1cox wrote:Good deal. Nice of you and a tradition on this forum. Did he take you up on it?

Yes, and the parts are on the way.

Wonderful, I bought that engine pictured above by George with the idea that if you couldn't I was going to separate the tank and send it to him. But, I don't have that engine either so I'm happy to keep it intact.
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Post  cstatman Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:44 am

i have a dragonfly tank - the needle valve is broken off and stuck in it.

I'll send/trade if anyone wants it.

no clunk.
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Post  Grf4413 Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:16 pm

Some interesting info on these three engines.  It looks like the dragon fly and ranger are the same ,just color of tank. http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/cox_frameset.htm, is good info on cox engines, but they don't list the ranger. Did cox sell this for something special, or just as a separate engine.  And thanks to duaneh for the great offer and help. Don't post much but do read almost everyday.  Always learning something new..
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:45 pm

The Dragonfly is the separately marketed engine for consumers with R/C muffled exhaust throttle control. The Ranger is the product engine used in several RTF's, without throttle control, exhaust muffled only. It's white plastic tank was probably a cost cutting measure, I imagine. However, it is very easily converted to R/C control. If muffling is not needed, a throttle ring does wonders.

The short lived R/C Bee was the predecessor to the Dragonfly. From what I heard, there were legality issues with copyrights on the silicon sleeve used for muffling. Although it was applied to much larger engines, and not in the artful context that Cox used it for, apparently someone thought it worthwhile to approach Cox with threat of lawsuit.

It sort of reminds me of the lawsuit of Jordash with Lardash, a jean made for big women, which Jordash did not have a market for. Seems similarities are enough these days to constitute a lawsuit. But then, a car dealer by the name of Hershey, who used the family name as part of his car dealership prior to the chocolate company, was sued for using the name "Hershey" with his own car dealership. Appears to be a game with the extremely wealthy.

Anyway, screw the lawsuits, the R/C Bee with its unique muffling system (and I heard a few of the earliest Dragonflies used the same muffling system) is still a really nice power system to use. When muffling was not required, I just simply pulled off the silicon cover and used it as a throttle ring.
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:08 pm

Isn't this engine the R/C Bee and not a Ranger or Dragonfly. It has the zinc case not aluminum.

Tank for a dragonfly Dragon10

I have a similar case that I picked up from CI and attached to a SureStart back end.

Tank for a dragonfly P1013719
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:34 pm

Yes, Bob, that it is. If you go 7 messages back, you will see that in my reply to Eric, I copied the associated photo with his link so others could see what auction item he was pointing out.

There's nothing wrong with the cast crankcase used by the R/C Bee. From what I understand, with the quality control issues they encountered, it was more expensive to produce, so they reverted back to the extruded, machined bar stock crankcase with the R/C Bee's successor, the Dragonfly (and derivative Ranger product) engine.

I gather that as a marketing strategy to garner more sales, Bernie had a good number of them powder coated into an array of tasteful colors. I thought often to buy one, as they were very nice eye candy, but living in a windy area, a detriment to half-A flying, forewent them.

Once his last pink bomber horseshoe back engine has disappeared from his website's store, I guess that it was the last of them.

https://coxengines.ca/basic-engines/cox--049-engine-pink-bomber.html
Tank for a dragonfly Pink2010

I take that back, Matt has red one crankcases left:

http://www.exmodelengines.com/product.php?productid=18359
Tank for a dragonfly Dsc_0410
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:48 pm

Thanks George, I stumbled into that one while looking at the same sellers Cox wrench collection. I do not have a R/C/ Bee.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:57 pm

rsv1cox wrote:Thanks George, I stumbled into that one while looking at the same sellers Cox wrench collection.  I do not have a R/C Bee. 
They are a wonderful engine, Bob. But in reality, if you were to add an exhaust throttle ring to that green bomber of yours, you'd essentially have a tankless R/C Bee, especially with a 2/3 to 1 ounce external tank.
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Post  davidll1984 Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:57 am



Apparently there was a development version by engineering (@Larry Renger?) that did have a true rotary valve, the next post after mine.

Admin on Oct 27, 2019 wrote:Wow, this ad connects some dots! There is a picture of an R/C Bee with rear rotary induction posted on Mark's 049Collectors Yahoo group. Labeled a "mystery engine". Shocked
Tank for a dragonfly Myster11
My 36" Sterling Minnie Mambo fuselage was thoroughly destroyed, but the engine survived. It was already on its second cylinder/piston set. I had already worn out the first set on Sig Champion 25% fuel, a good testament to the usefulness of the engine.[/quote] Shocked This is the first time I hear about this prototype engine from larry renger I wonder how many more there are Huh... This Site Rocks! Thumbs Up
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Post  GallopingGhostler Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:58 pm

davidll1984 wrote:
GallopingGhostler wrote:Apparently there was a development version by engineering (@Larry Renger?) that did have a true rotary valve, the next post after mine.
Admin on Oct 27, 2019 wrote:Wow, this ad connects some dots! There is a picture of an R/C Bee with rear rotary induction posted on Mark's 049Collectors Yahoo group. Labeled a "mystery engine". Shocked
Tank for a dragonfly Myster11
Shocked  This is the first time I hear about this prototype engine from larry renger I wonder how many more there are Huh... This Site Rocks! Thumbs Up
I tagged Larry Renger's posting name, but he only posted 1 post here to CEF a while back, so don't know if he gets notices by his E-mail. I don't know if Larry was specifically involved, but I imagine he could have been, why I mentioned him.

If you will notice, the fuel tank appears to be machined out of a block of Delrin nylon, most likely on a several axis CNC mill. It has the rough, non-shiny surface finish of such. They'd do these on very limited production, because constructing a mold for forming is a lot more work. You can barely make out the venturi discharge hole on the top of what appears to be the "reedie" assembly area on the production R/C Bee. Also, the paper gasket also appears to be hand made.

For quick development, they probably went back to the engineering drawings for the RR-1 rear rotary valve, may have even used an RR-1 valve. Regarding quantities, since this was development, I imagine they probably made several, for testing and tweaking by additional machining, etc. Since these were all hand made, they were strictly for concept development.

They probably had a very small engine research and development section (R&D), engineer, machinist, a tech or two. Probably shared their time with other projects.

I guess the reed valve version won out as being the most cost effective with sufficient performance to be considered marketable. From what I gather, the RR-1, as wonderful an engine as it was, didn't have the durability of the other engines and was more costly to produce for the benefit it gave, no advantage over the Tee Dees nor Medallions.

And, reading between the lines, based on Larry's other posts in Stunt Hangar, I gathered that the management side of the company was a difficult bunch to work for. He impresses me as being a very talented and competent, hard working individual (a worker and not a politician).
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Post  Grf4413 Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:15 pm

Wanted to say thanks to duaneh , tank made it to Missouri today safe and sound (USPS).  Also thanks for good info on the dragonfly, ranger and rc bee. I like those engines, just not as common as some of the others.
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