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Post  rsv1cox Thu Aug 25, 2022 6:38 pm

I have never had one beat me before, but this one is testing me, and it's an important engine that I want to save.

First, totally locked up Spitzy Spitfire.  Berryman's soak, needle and glow plug out, heated to smoking with a heat gun (I hate doing that, but) and I'm getting  about five degrees of motion either side of center up against a dead and I'm talking a dead stop no castor goo give at all.  

I can't unscrew the backplate to check the crank and I'm not unscrewing the cylinder until I know what is going on.  I'm thinking the motion is the crank taking up connecting rod slop as the piston is not moving at all.  My last resort is an A/F boil but that reduces the anodizing and I don't want to do that.  

Right now it's sitting in 91% overnight, but that is not going to help.  I'm thinking a broken connecting rod.

Any ideas?

Strange these Spitzy's.  No spray bar with a center hole, just two screw in pieces with a nozzle.  

So, I've got this engine problem P1013958
So, I've got this engine problem P1013957


So, I've got this engine problem P1013954
So, I've got this engine problem P1013956
So, I've got this engine problem P1013955

Oh yes, I have an identical spare, but it's not as nice and it's missing the NVA which I will have to swap.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:36 pm

Several piece spray bar arrangement with separate ends is the same as on my A.C. Gilberts. You probably could substitute a standard spray bar arrangement for small engines on it. However, if you have internal damage as it sounds, may be another parts engine.
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Post  Coxfledgling Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:57 am

If it where mine, I would remove all heat damageable plastic parts etc. And heat in car engine oil and see if that tree's of stuck stuff any.

I have used this method many times to free off stuck stuff before, not only model engines but mechanical components for cars, bikes, marine engines etc. etc.

This " whole unit heating" will help in castor goooo softening and removal and help in c/case rear cover removal I think.

Some crank rotation is good, so maybe piston is stuck, hope con rod is not broken.

Have you ever heard this engine running at all ?

Hope it didn't sieze solid whilst running !

I also find that modern UK petrol is good at cleaning castor gooo'd up engines, but the baked on gum from some non castor fuels is really difficult to remove. Really difficult to remove.

Take your time, steady as you go, a a few " please God" 's.....
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Post  Marleysky Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:53 am

IF you have soaked the whole engine in Berrymans and heated it to smoking and haven't got any piston movement...that's a tough old bird. I've had similar stuck Testors engines. Injected PB Parts Blaster in the top and let sit a day, turnover and fill the bottom of the crankcase with PB flip it over so the penetrating fliud gets in the bypass port alongside the piston.Let it set overnight. With the glowhead removed I used a hardwood dowel sized to fit the center of the piston and gently tapped until the piston broke free. In your case with the Spitzy if you can't get the anodized head off maybe try a bamboo chopstick thru the glowplug hole.

EDIT: For future reference. The Piston at Bottom. bamboo stick reads .75" to top of head. Just so ya don't try tapping it down any further if it's stuck!!  So, I've got this engine problem Dscn1139
So, I've got this engine problem Dscn1140

Glad to see you went ahead hard on that castor goo!


Last edited by Marleysky on Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  rsv1cox Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:06 am

Well I got the backplate off.  Caveman style, when all else fails, last resort.........torch it.  

You can't cloth buffer it in the vice, torch would ignite. Wood blocks, forget it!  Vice it up vertical best position, Cox wrench in the slots, max heat and downward force, and hope.  Thankfully, no damage, not even a scratch.  

So, I've got this engine problem P1013959

So, I've got this engine problem P1013960


It's not the connecting rod, or the crank which spins 360 degrees.  Burned fingers and hands I got upward movement of the piston, but just a little, enough to cover the exhaust ports and full stop.  This cylinder is max goo.  I filled the bottom end with light oil, let is soak and cool then try the torch again.  

Rather than putting a strain on the con rod, I think I will heat the cylinder and using a wooden dowel tap the piston down and remove it from the bottom, then more Berrymans soak and a bore brush.  Less intrusive measures first.  

Stay tuned.........

Ah, Rene we were typing at the same time.  We read each others mind. Scary right...........Smile

BTW, either this is a domed piston or there is a bunch of castor buildup on one side (viewed through the exhaust ports) on the top of the piston.


Last edited by rsv1cox on Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  getback Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:33 am

Isn't that the con. rod there in soak? That is a tough one must have been running on pure castor mix ? I had about 19 of them at one time and Had to get rid of most of them Sad hate it now and then too . O well Sad
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Post  rsv1cox Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:48 am

getback wrote:Isn't that the con. rod there in soak? That is a tough one must have been running on pure castor mix ? I had about 19 of them at one time and Had to get rid of most of them Sad hate it now and then too . O well Sad

19 of them Eric.............. Beer Cheers You're going all rsv on me.  Smile Yes on the connecting rod.

It is a domed piston and the cylinder is full of castor goo.  I'm going to have to remove the crank and tap it out the bottom.  But right now all those parts are soaking in Berrymans.  

I heated and removed the anodized head, short soak for that.  If your careful the torch works better than a heat gun, you can direct the heat right where you want it, and you don't get the smoke that you get with the gun.  Five second torch application vice 30 seconds + with the gun.  

Best friends.

So, I've got this engine problem P1013961
So, I've got this engine problem P1013962
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Post  rsv1cox Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:33 am

When you stop being careful, good things happen.

After the Berryman's soak I just muscled it apart. Badly scored piston. I was hoping that I could reset the connecting rod but it's keeper is too far gone. I have a couple of parts Spitzy's that will contribute.

I could have removed the crankshaft, but that was the only proper working part of the engine so I left it. Heat gun and a dowel removed the piston through the bottom but it wasn't easy. Oiled bore brush cleaned up the cylinder to very good. Saveable.

So, I've got this engine problem P1013963
So, I've got this engine problem P1013965
So, I've got this engine problem P1013964
So, I've got this engine problem P1013966
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Post  crankbndr Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:42 pm

You are kinder and gentler that I am. The last one that gave trouble got hack sawed!!
What round for McCoy .19?


So, I've got this engine problem Dsc01012
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Post  rsv1cox Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:07 pm

crankbndr wrote:You are kinder and gentler that I am. The last one that gave trouble got hack sawed!!
What round for McCoy .19?



How about a "Mc" Knight 52 cal muzzle loader.  

So, I've got this engine problem Mounta10

Goodness CB, a hacksaw!  You even twisted that poor little con-rod.  Smile

Got a little help coming for the pistonless Baby Spit.  Hopefully the piston is ok.  Parts engine.  Might not have to use one of my good ones.

So, I've got this engine problem Parts_12


There is an anodized version on ebay now for $175.00.  Dreamer.  Nice engine, but...........

From Kazakhstan

So, I've got this engine problem Kaz_sp10
So, I've got this engine problem Kaz_ba10
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Post  rsv1cox Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:34 pm

Simple temporary solution, just swap parts. When I get the parts engine in and replace the damaged piston/con rod I will just swap them back.

Done for now and flyable. Wierd prop nut #4 but thread is not forty. Infant prop stays on for now but it will find it's way to a K&B Infant and be replaced by a W/M prop. No need for the PO's adhesive medical tape. The broken tail stud is fixed.

So, I've got this engine problem P1013971
So, I've got this engine problem P1013970
So, I've got this engine problem P1013969

So, I've got this engine problem P1013972
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Post  GallopingGhostler Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:38 pm

That cleaned up nicely, Bob.
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Post  rsv1cox Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:49 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:That cleaned up nicely, Bob.

Thanks, not too bad.  But it's what inside that hurts.  Sad

So, I've got this engine problem P1013973
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:45 am

Somehow.....


Last edited by rsv1cox on Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:48 am

Finally got the parts Spitzy in but no wrench to remove the negative hex head case back plate. Points were worn on the hex, somebody tried to get in there before. Nothing to lose I used a 5/16" bolt with jam nuts, heated the case and it unscrewed pretty easy. Big improvement over the notched head covers.

So, I've got this engine problem Spitzy11

Looks like a good conrod/piston too. Might save the original gold head engine yet.

So, I've got this engine problem P1014025
So, I've got this engine problem P1014026

I have never seen a Spitzy/Royal Spitfire wrench yet. Maybe they intended you to use the 5/16 but on tank equipped engines you would have to drill a hole in the head.




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Post  getback Tue Sep 06, 2022 5:40 am

Bob here is some good info if you have not seen before >> http://www.modelenginecollectors.org/PDF/tinyengines.pdf Still don't see a wrench for the back plate i was thinking a threaded coupler would work with the one that have a screw mount .
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Post  Oldenginerod Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:22 am

Bob, excuse me for questioning your knowledge of these engines, but I don't believe that the head is anodised gold, but is actually solid brass. I had my suspicions, but the link Eric gave us has confirmed that they, at least some, have brass heads. Maybe a bit of unnecessary care taken in the clean-up when trying to avoid damaging the anodising.

Rod
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Post  rsv1cox Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:21 am

Thanks Eric, I have that site logged in my favorite places.  It's an excellent referance.

and Rod yes.  I'm afraid these mental lapses are going to creep into my posts as I get older.  I'm finding that 85 isn't 75 or even 80.

I made the piston/con rod swap. Fit fine. Flipped it over a couple of times. Put the back cover on flipped it some more and it hung up. Ok, so the connecting rod came off the pin. Took it apart again and found the other half of the broken keeper jamming up the works. (end of magnet)

Fine now with good compression. Now I have to press out and swap the NVA.

So, I've got this engine problem P1014029
So, I've got this engine problem P1014030
So, I've got this engine problem P1014031
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