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Post  Yabby Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:17 pm

It seems that nearly all old british style Combat wings mount their engines sideways. I have never been able to work out a reason for this other than thats how its done, and myabe its actually easier to build a strong sideways mount? The other question I have is Im building and going to fly some Liquidator wings and when I was young I flew them without a muffler. Nowadays where Im going to fly it, in the centre of the small town at the sports Oval, I want to use a muffler as its an all year rounf beutifully lush grassed huge oval for Aust rules footy and Cricket and I dont want people having me kicked off for noise from my OS 15 or Enya 15. The side mount engine will see the muffle hit first on landing, does that work out ok? I was thinking given their great gliding ability it probably would be ok, but wasnt sure. If its not Ok to land with the muffler like that, is there a way around it with a side mounted engine?

Thanks. Thumbs Up sunny

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Post  Ken Cook Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:14 pm

Upright engines were obsolete in and around 1961. There's advantages to having a upright engine in some cases. However, it was susceptible to breaking the beams right out of the plane in a inverted landing. For this reason, Sterling made the T-Square with a bolt on plate which had the maple mounts glued to it for easy replacement. You don't want a muffler on your engine unless you want to break the crankcase snapping the jug right off. It will also break your muffler. I will mention this and probably no one will believe it but I have bent 3 Enya .35 crankcases in my time and all of the over grass. I can't see the .15 being any different as it's design is essentially identical. I have completely obliterated Fox .35's but never on grass. One exception was a straight in impact which broke the exhaust stack due to muffler being on the engine.

      The other downside is the loss of power your going to have using it. Even opening up the stinger on the muffler, it's going to run hot. This isn't a r/c plane, there's lots of drag with the lines and the plane.

         There's no gliding a plane in with crap hanging off the bottom. If you even use a tank with  it's overflow hanging out the bottom, your going to break the pipes right out of the tank. If they don't break initially, they will get caked with dirt. We sometimes use tongue mufflers that we make which are real short but they're still loud and we have a wire loop skid on the nose block. This would be your only real alternative as it will protect your engine but that muffler will also seriously alter the plane's maneuverability.
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Post  Yabby Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:28 pm

Excellent thanks Ken, thats answered it all and also pretty much what I suspected. Looking at it, and the weight of the muffler and connected to the engine, hitting the ground first I could not see how it was going to be a happy ending. Yes I can see engine cases breaking! They are not designed or intended to take those sort of loads/impacts. I will fly without the muffler and just wont fly it at stupid hours. I couldnt see how an upright mount could be built (readily) with the strenght of the sidemounts and have always used sidemounts and un-muffled Enya but never knew why other than thats what we did, so thats what I did, flew them and had a great time.

Agree on the performance hit of the muffler. Unless they are wavelength designed chambers/pipes they kill perfromance. Another thing an overly restrictive / incorrect designed muffler / not a chamber / Pipe can do is raise the Piston temp. And heat is the worst enemy of probably any engine, but especially two strokes with old metal tech.

Thanks for clarifying for me, one of those little questions that has made me wonder for a very long time. Thumbs Up

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Post  HalfaDave Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:52 pm

Hi Yabby,

The Liquidator, I flew was built by my friend Frank. Must have modified it.
Had a 'landing skid' nose on it. Protecting the muffler.
The 'big deal' was if, if you landed inverted, and busted the needle valve...
Whatever that Enya.15 was, it had no problems with a muffler....
55ft lines,
Your results my vary,
Respect,
Dave

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Post  Yabby Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:28 pm

Sounds like your friend Frank built a nice Jigger for you Dave!

Im going to stay with no muffler, I can see bad things happening without some sort of skid etc. and I dont want to go inventing. No muffler. Nice and standard. :-)

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Post  HalfaDave Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:26 pm

Hi Yabby,

Go for it ! That is what we did !
This is the time, when our club rules, mandated mufflers.
We still flew it.
The ? old metal wedge tank was built into the wing. Worked great.
That old Enya .15 did not miss a heart beat on a muffler.
It also was part of early Db experiments,
1/2A 6-3s , were way less than,
.60 piped pattern planes, flying over, way past our flying field.
So,
Go Flying Yabby,

I am going to.
Respect,
Dave




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Post  aspeed Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:36 am

I made some little short flat mufflers from the Dubro muffler extension tubes. I just milled flats on the edge with the motor bolt pattern in it and put on some end caps. Small holes will be put in where the exhaust needs to go. Have not finished them yet, but took pics. Can not find them on the computer though. It is pretty much a tongue muffler bolted on sideways, but it barely sticks down at all.
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