Purchased some engine from Etsy

sosam117 Tue Dec 12, 2023 4:52 pm

I was doing a web search for an old florescent light that is over the kitchen sink as the switch no longer worked.
(No more click-click on/off)

Luck would have it that the switch has a part number on it.
Long story short, I found on Etsy a sell that had the part (this light is over 60yrs old -- push button on/off).
Like the old on/off buttons on the old stoves years ago.

Anyway, as I was looking through the seller's site, I ran across a bunch of engines for sale (on his site as well).
Each were $38.00 a piece.
They were being sold "as is" and the crankshaft doesn't move.

I bought all of them as they looked in good shape and no plier marks on them!

Well, I got them in the mail along with my push button switch last Saturday (12/9/2023)

Took them out of the shipping box and each engine was wrapped in bubble wrap and then in these "candy" like plastic bags?

Purchased some engine from Etsy 004_as10

Purchased some engine from Etsy 003_we10

Taking them out of these bags was like unwrapping a piece of candy (crunch --- plastic sound)
I looked the engines over and all of them were gummed up.
None of them looked to have been run except the Cox .049 Bee with the extended tank and the G-Mark Sea Gull .061 engine.
I loosened up the .020 with a little Liquid Wrench (to free up rusty parts) and a little heat from my covering heat gun.
Did the same for the Medallion .15 and the Tee Dee .51 (I did see the groove on the piston), and both were freed up with no problems.

Purchased some engine from Etsy 001_co14

As for the Cox .049 Bee with the extended tank, it was free and seems like no problems? Of course, I haven't taken it apart and maybe I might not want to?
The Bee is set up for U/control and if you look carefully through the somewhat opaque plastic, you can see the inside of the tank.

As for the G-Mark Sea Gull .061. I could turn the crank but was a little hard to turn.
The aluminum parts had oxidation (pitting) on them.

So, I took it apart and cleaned it up.
Interesting part is the piston/con rod is done just like Cox's piston/rod connection (ball/socket).
Sonic cleaned and polished what I could then reassembled it.

Last was to free up the Wen-Mac engines.
I did the same to them as I did on the Cox engines.
That freed up the spring and piston/sleeve assembly. Theses look to not have been run either?

I wonder where these Wen-Mac motor are used in what product (plane)?

Purchased some engine from Etsy 002_g-10

GallopingGhostler Tue Dec 12, 2023 5:20 pm

sosam117 wrote:I was doing a web search for an old florescent light that is over the kitchen sink as the switch no longer worked. [...] I found on Etsy a sell that had the part (this light is over 60yrs old -- push button on/off). Like the old on/off buttons on the old stoves years ago.

Good score, I've done similar on exhausters, electric ceiling heater, etc. With replacement parts, got them running again. Other cases, found up-to-date replacement that sufficed. Got a new kitchen hood by same manufacturer but instead of recirculating (those never truly worked well), exhausts to outside, around $70 shipping included. Hired an HVAC firm to duct to outside. Now, kitchen has that greasy smoke and boiling vapors siphoned to the outside.

sosam117 wrote:Anyway, as I was looking through the seller's site, I ran across a bunch of engines for sale (on his site as well). Each were $38.00 a piece. [...] I bought all of them as they looked in good shape and no plier marks on them! Well, I got them in the mail along with my push button switch last Saturday (12/9/2023) [...]

I wonder where these Wen-Mac motor are used in what product (plane)?

Those are the separately sold in bubble pack card Testors 8000 engines, competed with Babe Bee sales but are the most powerful factory consumer grade reed valve engines available, even more powerful than the Black Widow.

See these early 1970's articles:
https://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/Testors%208000.html and
https://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/Testor%208000%20%282%29.html

Purchased some engine from Etsy 2020-016

Peter Chinn's Testors 8000 engine curve on 15% nitro fuel

https://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/Cox%20Black%20Widow%20%282%29.html

Purchased some engine from Etsy Cox_0413

Don Hehlik Black Widow HP on 15% nitro (Mirrors Peter Chinn's)

They are set up for standard counterclockwise control line flight, bulkhead mount pattern is same as for the Cox .049 tank engines. If you want to use for free flight or for R/C, then rotate engine 90% (standard is sidewinder with cylinder to the outside of the C/L circle) so engine is inverted. This puts the tank fuel pickup at the bottom. You scored big. Very Happy

**944_Jim** Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:19 pm

Gee whiz,

Some guys get all the luck!

Great score. It think someone needs to do a period-correct 1/2A Ambush.

sosam117 Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:15 am

GallopingGhostler wrote:
sosam117 wrote:I was doing a web search for an old florescent light that is over the kitchen sink as the switch no longer worked. [...] I found on Etsy a sell that had the part (this light is over 60yrs old -- push button on/off). Like the old on/off buttons on the old stoves years ago.
Good score, I've done similar on exhausters, electric ceiling heater, etc. With replacement parts, got them running again. Other cases, found up-to-date replacement that sufficed. Got a new kitchen hood by same manufacturer but instead of recirculating (those never truly worked well), exhausts to outside, around $70 shipping included. Hired an HVAC firm to duct to outside. Now, kitchen has that greasy smoke and boiling vapors siphoned to the outside.

sosam117 wrote:Anyway, as I was looking through the seller's site, I ran across a bunch of engines for sale (on his site as well). Each were $38.00 a piece. [...] I bought all of them as they looked in good shape and no plier marks on them! Well, I got them in the mail along with my push button switch last Saturday (12/9/2023) [...]

I wonder where these Wen-Mac motor are used in what product (plane)?
Those are the separately sold in bubble pack card Testors 8000 engines, competed with Babe Bee sales but are the most powerful factory consumer grade reed valve engines available, even more powerful than the Black Widow.

See these early 1970's articles:
https://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/Testors%208000.html and
https://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/Testor%208000%20%282%29.html

Peter Chinn's Testors 8000 engine curve on 15% nitro fuel

https://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/Cox%20Black%20Widow%20%282%29.html

Don Hehlik Black Widow HP on 15% nitro (Mirrors Peter Chinn's)

They are set up for standard counterclockwise control line flight, bulkhead mount pattern is same as for the Cox .049 tank engines. If you want to use for free flight or for R/C, then rotate engine 90% (standard is sidewinder with cylinder to the outside of the C/L circle) so engine is inverted. This puts the tank fuel pickup at the bottom. You scored big.

Question?
You say "If you want to use for free flight or for R/C, then rotate engine 90%.
I don't see any screws to remove the tank.
I did read in the reviews that you pop off the back (tank) off, but I'm not too sure about that?
Where would pry on the tank without cracking it?

And when you turn it 90° is it clockwise or counterclockwise? (looking from the front of the engine.)

Thanks,

rsv1cox Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:21 am

Heck of a buy Mike.

Pardon me while I "search for an old florescent light." Smile

Bob

GallopingGhostler Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:39 am

sosam117 wrote:Question? You say "If you want to use for free flight or for R/C, then rotate engine 90%. I don't see any screws to remove the tank. I did read in the reviews that you pop off the back (tank) off, but I'm not too sure about that? Where would pry on the tank without cracking it?

@sosam117 , although Peter Chinn mentions about disassembling, I would not even attempt it with this engine unless it is absolutely required. Peter is an engine expert and he managed to get it apart to show the modeller what it looks like disassembled. (I am speaking from my vantage point and no one else here - YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary. I am not an engine expert or "mechanic" - pushed paper for aerospace then government for 35 years. Rudolph

)

I would not attempt it (from my perspective again) because it is very easy to break the alignment pin on the tank. [Besides, the almost 50 year old plastic tank, is it still as resilient - pliable as it was then? I noticed that yours appear yellowed, from sunlight or heat stored in an unconditioned attic? or exposed to sunlight? or did Testors mold these from different shades of white? Mine I bought in the 1970's is still bright white.] Besides, even if you were to successfully pop off the tank from the crankcase, none of the other orientations have pin channels, engine crankcase could re-orient itself due to vibration while running.

I was referring to physically remounting the whole engine tank and all as a unit, so that the fuel pickup location would be at the bottom, so tank could fully drain in flight. Then, the cylinder points down, engine is now inverted.

If you hold the engine as though it were to be mounted on a C/L aircraft, the fuel pickup inside the tank is located in the middle of the tank right side. This is looking at the back of the tank, basically the pilot's view while seated in the cockpit, which most article magazine writers and plan designers use as a reference point. Due to centrifugal force in the C/L circle, then fuel pickup is optimally located.

sosam117 wrote:And when you turn it 90° is it clockwise or counterclockwise? (looking from the front of the engine.)

In that orientation, with cylinder pointed to the left ("pancake") looking at the prop nut, you rotate the engine complete with tank counterclockwise 90° so the cylinder is inverted, pointing down.

Oldenginerod Thu Dec 14, 2023 2:48 pm

The Testors 8000 has a tank locating lug which is also used to separate the tank from the case, having a ramp which allows the user to twist the tank and it pops right off. The lug should always remain located in the rail that runs along the side of the case. (Not shown in these pictures).

GallopingGhostler Thu Dec 14, 2023 3:09 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:The Testors 8000 has a tank locating lug which is also used to separate the tank from the case, having a ramp which allows the user to twist the tank and it pops right off. The lug should always remain located in the rail that runs along the side of the case. (Not shown in these pictures).

Rod, am looking for the box that I squirreled away the engine in. That lug you are referring to is the pin I was referring to. It is a small diameter on mine, something like 1/16th of an inch. It does have the end cut at a 45 degree angle.

I've had my share of broken lugs, pins, divot fillers, etc. on all sorts of plastic items to include radios, other plastic cases and accessories on electronics, household items, motorcycle and car items. Others here, especially Bob have shown nipples and screw standoffs broken on RTF's he's repaired.

So, hence this is where my perspective came from especially on various non-replaceable parts to items.

You can thank modern, keep manufacturing costs as low as possible forget maintainability throw it away buy another philosophy of today. (They relegate the engineer who used to be involved in the manufacturing process and now delegate fashion designers and MBA's to that realm, cut the engineer's salaries to that minimal and relegated him to a back corner where they pass food to him under a slot in the door, lay him off after they got what they wanted.

Example: replacing heater core in a 1999 Chevy S10 small pickup,
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t10787-how-a-rusty-1963-corvair-turned-into-a-slightly-less-rusty-1977-mg-midget#136179 )

Bob has been a wealth of methodologies, how he uses various chemicals to remove varnish and Castor buildup without disassembly when absolutely necessary.

Anyway, not going against what you or others have said. Back in the day, the cost of the Testors was in the ballpark of a couple fastfood luncheons. Nowadays, unless requires some work, going for a steak to a steak and lobster dinner.

It is odd how everything I grew up with are now collectables.

rsv1cox Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:22 pm

"Others here, especially Bob have shown nipples and screw standoffs broken on RTF's he's repaired."

Thanks George. Jason deserves the credit. He 3D printed a lot of those standoffs and posts and even some parts that enabled me to do a lot of those repairs. He did the whole front suspension on the Pinto Funny Car.

Purchased some engine from Etsy P1016788

A lot of his handywork is in old #2 also.

Purchased some engine from Etsy P1016787

sosam117 Thu Dec 14, 2023 8:17 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:
sosam117 wrote:Question? You say "If you want to use for free flight or for R/C, then rotate engine 90%. I don't see any screws to remove the tank. I did read in the reviews that you pop off the back (tank) off, but I'm not too sure about that? Where would pry on the tank without cracking it?
@sosam117 , although Peter Chinn mentions about disassembling, I would not even attempt it with this engine unless it is absolutely required. Peter is an engine expert and he managed to get it apart to show the modeller what it looks like disassembled. (I am speaking from my vantage point and no one else here - YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary. I am not an engine expert or "mechanic" - pushed paper for aerospace then government for 35 years. )

I would not attempt it (from my perspective again) because it is very easy to break the alignment pin on the tank. [Besides, the almost 50 year old plastic tank, is it still as resilient - pliable as it was then? I noticed that yours appear yellowed, from sunlight or heat stored in an unconditioned attic? or exposed to sunlight? or did Testors mold these from different shades of white? Mine I bought in the 1970's is still bright white.] Besides, even if you were to successfully pop off the tank from the crankcase, none of the other orientations have pin channels, engine crankcase could re-orient itself due to vibration while running.

I was referring to physically remounting the whole engine tank and all as a unit, so that the fuel pickup location would be at the bottom, so tank could fully drain in flight. Then, the cylinder points down, engine is now inverted.

If you hold the engine as though it were to be mounted on a C/L aircraft, the fuel pickup inside the tank is located in the middle of the tank right side. This is looking at the back of the tank, basically the pilot's view while seated in the cockpit, which most article magazine writers and plan designers use as a reference point. Due to centrifugal force in the C/L circle, then fuel pickup is optimally located.

sosam117 wrote:And when you turn it 90° is it clockwise or counterclockwise? (looking from the front of the engine.)
In that orientation, with cylinder pointed to the left ("pancake") looking at the prop nut, you rotate the engine complete with tank counterclockwise 90° so the cylinder is inverted, pointing down.

Thanks for the information.
I really was not thinking of trying to remove the backplate/tank.
I just wanted to know if anyone else has tried it on these "old" engines as the plastic might be brittle?
As with the engines age, I think the plastic would be brittle from age and trying to "pop" it off might just either crack or break the tank.
I'm going to keep them the way they are ---- there isn't a problem with them so why muck them up?

Oldenginerod Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:33 pm

sosam117 wrote:
I'm going to keep them the way they are ---- there isn't a problem with them so why muck them up?

They run the same type mylar reed valve as the later Cox reedies so you probably should give them a soak in fuel and see if the reed valve is free and spray bar clear. Yes, a heavy fisted operator may do some damage to the tank by removing it roughly, but in my experience it's usually a pretty straightforward job and I've never seen one damaged by simply twisting and pulling. It will only twist off in one direction.

getback Fri Dec 15, 2023 8:59 am

Good purchase on the engines , some more good stuff i didn't know about the Testors 8000 engine Rudolph

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