Help in sorting out the W/M Atwood outboard engine.

Bob, you are treading on new turf that not many have knowledge or experience with these early Wen-Mac marine model outboard engines. As being new grounds for marine modelling enthusiasts, was probably quite a novelty in its day. Your travails remind me of,

The Road Not Taken

BY ROBERT FROST

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

[...]

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

From: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44272/the-road-not-taken

So, you are sharing an experience on a road not traveled much, which for the CEF audience, makes all the difference. Share on!

(Also, many are on holiday, probably why posts are tapering off.

Thanks George

My Mother often quoted from it.  She had a watercolor painted by a friend while they both attended college and given to her that depicted it, a pastoral scene that now has a place here in my home. Close to 100 years old now.

Hangs under my Ted Williams picture (boyhood hero) in good company.  



But, perhaps my favorite:



But............it ain't solving my problem.  

WEll you can see one run anyway ,,If it where me I would try and reach out to this guy and see if he knows anything about your problem's >>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XACyUltUdw       P2  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS30hQZgNiQ  PT3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtrqh9UKv-U I AM LOOKING  

Thanks Eric. I bookmarked it.

Never thought to do a search. Same Atwood too. Love the boat, miniature fuel tank, fenders, steering wheel. Nicely done. On board Go-pro like Kim. A R/C that doesn't crash, I could do that!

[quote="rsv1cox"]History, it came minus the cylinder and head. But with a spare Cox cylinder.  



Simple, I have lot's of spare W/M cylinders and heads.  I will just replace them.  I tried a lot of cylinders but the skirts extended down into the case blocking the crank/connecting rod from rotating.  Only one cylinder allowed the connecting rod to rotate but the piston extends up and out of the cylinder by about a quarter inch.





So it has to be the cylinder?  Perhaps designed for this particular engine?  Makes no sense.  Am I missing something here?  

One on the right is a saint, on the left a sinner.  Applies to politics too...Just kidding....

[This model of engine should have a seal gasket between the crankcase and the cylinder I have a .049 but the model for airplane but it cant be the cause of the interference between the crankchaft and the cylinder which is a bit odd with the funny port between the tred ok its  Already less strange than the spitzy that I have with its strange schim between the crankcase and the cylinder which will route the fuel into the cylinder with the two largest ports on the crankcase. Funny concept of an engine, both a bit similar, really very simple to build Maybe you could make a chim of the right thickness but the timing in conjunction with the crank could be off but it might work  
​

Bob, can you please explain. You have an Atwood engine and you're trying to install a WenMac cylinder?? I know the two brands are related, but I wouldn't expect that there's much interchangeability.

Rod.

Oldenginerod wrote:Bob, can you please explain.  You have an Atwood engine and you're trying to install a WenMac cylinder??  I know the two brands are related, but I wouldn't expect that there's much interchangeability.

Rod.

From what I have read Bill Atwood designed the Wen Mac engine and it's variations.  But, you might be on to something.  They could be slightly different.  Visually, externally they look the same.  



What I have to do is bite the bullet and remove one of the Atwood outboards cylinders and compare.  I have tried this but I fear damage as there is no way to get a grip on it other than a leather strap or a bar through the exhaust ports.  Finding a trashed Atwood outboard has yielded no results.  

I have spare W/M and Atwood cases and cylinders, they share the same crazy interupted threads for induction.  Atwood on the left.  Notice the cylinders, one has a skirt the other doesn't.  The one without the skirt allows the crankshaft to rotate but it exends the piston above the top of the cylinder at TDC.  The cylinder with the skirt blocks the con-rod but contains the piston within the cylinder.  The outboards cylinder could be different from the airplanes version.

Ken mentioned some time back that the earlier Wen-Mac's with only prop thrust plate and no spring starter were lighter in weight, made good engines for free flights, also would eliminate nose heaviness in control line.

I like the Wen Mac for free flight because it's gutless. It's very anemic which makes schoolyard free flight enjoyable. For control line however, I myself like power and power to spare. You can always tone back on power but your not going to extract more. The one thing that frustrates me is the difficulty in starting them. They flood so easily when priming. If you get it the first time, you can count on that not happening the rest of the day.

Ken, I like your very straightforward language about Wen-Mac power being gutless. I'd probably be more kinder/gentler (wimpish ) and say mild. It certainly describes Rod's kit description, or use 4 strands of 1/8th inch rubber (band) cord for power.

I can't defend the Wen Mac in the air because I have never flown a C/L airplane so equipped.  But on the bench I have found them to be as easy to start as any .049 engine other than a Cox.  Maybe I just got lucky.  

But...Eric's video here and above

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtrqh9UKv-U

shows that the outboard has plenty of scoot.  

The outboards bear both Wen Mac and Atwood markings, however the cases are always marked Atwood. Otherwise they are identical in all respects.

Bob, your historical displays through the years, of the diminutive molded plastic RTF Wen-Mac F4U of early 1950's that continued on to the late 1960's (1970's ?) with the more powerful later models basically illustrates how with weaker power, coped by using smaller wing area.

I think Paul Del Gatto's profile 17 inch span SNJ Harvard, F4U Corsair and Japanese Zero for Pee Wee power featured in the mid 1960's Model Airplane News magazine construction articles would also be a shoe-in for the earlier lower powered Wen-Macs.

Walt Musciano was most kind in his earlier half-A Scientific plans, which included the Wen-Mac (also OK Cub) .049 engines, also on the cover art of Scientific kit boxes.

I built the Del Gatto F4U approximately 40 years ago. I didn't power mine with a .020. I really think that would taxi that engine. I still have my Corsair and it resides over my bench. I took it out some years back and put it up for a flight.

I remember the SNJ model powered with the 0.020. Didn't the article have a picture of the model in flight taken from the center of the circle? I always wanted to build one but didn't have the money for a Pee Wee back then.

Ken, I think you meant this plan: https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=8265 Corsair by Paul Del Gatto from Model Airplane News August 1961 19in span


Jim, I gather you mean this one: https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=5744 SNJ Profile by Paul Del Gatto from Model Airplane News January 1962 17in span


These can be powered with something else than a Pee Wee, maybe an earlier less powerful .049 would do them well, too.

Damn there is is like nothing out there on rebuild of these engines , But thought you may enjoy looking at this >> http://www.toyoutboardmotors.com/Gas.htm#TOP   I think you said you don't do facebook ? But these people are into the boat motors Big time > https://www.facebook.com/groups/CollectingToyOutboards/

Not so Fast there >  

getback wrote:Damn there is is like nothing out there on rebuild of these engines , But thought you may enjoy looking at this >> http://www.toyoutboardmotors.com/Gas.htm#TOP    I think you said you don't do facebook ? But these people are into the boat motors Big time >  https://www.facebook.com/groups/CollectingToyOutboards/

Thanks Eric. I book marked the first one, second...I don't do Facebook.

Not much variation in these, but I have about covered all the bases K&BAllyn and Atwood/Wen wise except for the twin Allyn which I would be tempted to get. But, I have already gotten deeper in these than I wanted to. That pototo chip thing.

This last Allyn with the blue anodized head and the different flywheel perhaps the most interesting. I have to find out which came first.

getback wrote:Not so Fast there >  

Thanks Eric for posting that Facebook piece, 3:11 of mind blowing fun!!  And directed by Mary-Ann.  First time I have seen one run.  It leaned out a couple of times.  

I had to go down to the basement to see if mine was still there.  

getback wrote:Not so Fast there >  

Sounds like it had some major traction problems!! Not so bad once the tyres warmed up a little.