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Is anyone interested in discussing butyrate dope? Empty Is anyone interested in discussing butyrate dope?

Post  SuperDave Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:07 pm

Have made some discoveries recently but don't want to reveal them unless discussion follows.

Please let me know if this will garner any discussion. Ask any questions about butyrate dope that you like and I will answer. Otherwise I'll keep my discoveries to myself.


Last edited by SuperDave on Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  nitroairplane Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:31 pm

It depends what they are Smile
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Post  ahrma_581 Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:40 pm

The only discovery I've made is every on-line tutorial says it 'taughtens' instead of 'tautens'.

Altho' I guess 'taughtens' may be correct if they mean 'It taughtens me not to use butyrate on a weak structure because it will warp into a potato chip'. Sad
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Post  SuperDave Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:41 pm

No you don't Nitro! Wink What do you (or the forum) want to know?

I want to hear from the members not the moderators whose job it is to keep topics going.
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Post  SuperDave Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:49 pm

ahrima:

So what's the question?

I suppose in the Sonoran Desert you might have special concerns.
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Post  John Goddard Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Ok Dave I'm biting...........
It's been suggested to me that the Solar trim I'm using on the Bacaruda is a bit like concrete
film and I should aim to go lighter.
Tell a VERY lazy person how to mend the error of his ways.
Very Happy
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Post  SuperDave Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:58 pm

John Goddard wrote:Ok Dave I'm biting...........
It's been suggested to me that the Solar trim I'm using on the Bacaruda is a bit like concrete
film and I should aim to go lighter.
Tell a VERY lazy person how to mend the error of his ways.
Very Happy

Johnnie Boy:

The subject is buyrate dope not Solar trim. Concrete film doen't fly very well I'm told.
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Post  John Goddard Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:00 pm

Come on D you're supposed to persuade me to try tissue and dope.
Very Happy
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Post  SuperDave Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:09 pm

JB:

Who said anything about paper?

The subject is butyrate dope. Fact is I'm doing a profile S-3 Ringmaster fuse right now using using only butyrate. Sure is pretty.
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Post  Cribbs74 Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:10 pm

I would be interested but, more from a beginners standpoint.

I used tissue and dope years ago when doing rubber band stuff. I was not good at it and messed things up.

To keep me interested I would like to know the following.

Advantages/Disadvantages over modern coverings?
Proper application?
Color coating?
Timliness? How long does it take to do it right?

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Post  John Goddard Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:11 pm

Now we're getting somewhere.
We don't just dope tissue then?
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Post  SuperDave Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:36 pm

cribbs74 wrote:I would be interested but, more from a beginners standpoint.

I used tissue and dope years ago when doing rubber band stuff. I was not good at it and messed things up.

To keep me interested I would like to know the following.

Advantages/Disadvantages over modern coverings?
Proper application?
Color coating?
Timliness? How long does it take to do it right?




Ron:



1. No specialied equipment required but butyrate is more time-consuming if done with care and concern for detail..

2. Cut butyrate 50/50 with thinner before application also retarder to slow the drying process if in a warmer climates.

3. As above DON'T apply buyrate as in comes from the can. Lay down 2-3 coats of thinned clear before applying color. Remember butyrate dope is "pigment rich" and requires through mixing before and during application for best results.

4. Considering each successive coat require additional drying time the final coat should only be applied after 72 hours of drying time.

BTW, although butyrate may be applied by brush, I'm now using an air brush set from Harbor Freight.
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Post  SuperDave Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:40 pm

John Goddard wrote:Now we're getting somewhere.
We don't just dope tissue then?

No "we" don't JB; dope works well on either silkspan or balsa. See my note to Ron C.
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Post  John Goddard Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:29 pm

SuperDave wrote:
cribbs74 wrote:I would be interested but, more from a beginners standpoint.

I used tissue and dope years ago when doing rubber band stuff. I was not good at it and messed things up.

To keep me interested I would like to know the following.

Advantages/Disadvantages over modern coverings?
Proper application?
Color coating?
Timliness? How long does it take to do it right?




Ron:



1. No specialied equipment required but butyrate is more time-consuming if done with care and concern for detail..

2. Cut butyrate 50/50 with thinner before application also retarder to slow the drying process if in a warmer climates.

3. As above DON'T apply buyrate as in comes from the can. Lay down 2-3 coats of thinned clear before applying color. Remember butyrate dope is "pigment rich" and requires through mixing before and during application for best results.

4. Considering each successive coat require additional drying time the final coat should only be applied after 72 hours of drying time.

BTW, although butyrate may be applied by brush, I'm now using an air brush set from Harbor Freight.

Oh Oh I think that's me out.
Next someone will tell me to ditch me cyno and go back to aliphatics.
Cue Amy
I say no no no
lol!
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Post  dankar04 Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:44 pm

I have used Buyrate dope and silkspan for many years. Lite/ strong and just looks good. Not as puncture proof as mylar but add rigit strength to models. Little common sence and you get very fine results. Even a noob can apply mylar coverings, sometimes they do it wrong ?? Depends on what you want. I use Sig/Brodak/Areo-gloss and like them all.
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Post  Cribbs74 Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:49 pm

[quote="SuperDave"]
cribbs74 wrote:I would be interested but, more from a beginners standpoint.

I used tissue and dope years ago when doing rubber band stuff. I was not good at it and messed things up.

To keep me interested I would like to know the following.

Advantages/Disadvantages over modern coverings?
Proper application?
Color coating?
Timliness? How long does it take to do it right?


Ok, now riddle me this!

You say apply color over clear, how does it coat? Does it run off the clear and require successive coats?

Would you say it is heavier than iron on coatings?

I have to say doping looks better in my opinion than any iron on coating.

What would give more realistic results? Dope over silkspan or dope over balsa such as your profile or a sheeted fuse.

Thanks for the reply info Dave.
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Post  SuperDave Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:16 pm

Dan:

The only thing that I have against Aero-gloss butyrate is that in no longer comes in colors but Brodak does and a lot of them.

With all butyrates, they must be thinned 50/50 before use. Personally I by Brodak thinner and clear dope by the quart. Randolph Paint Company makes the butyrate dope sold by Brodak.
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Post  proctor Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:31 pm

Have been using tissue and dope forever, about 100 years ago had to decide
use butyrate or nitrate, decided on nitrate.
Did I make the wrong choice? Maybe because here in the UK we can no longer
get colored dope.
If I was convinced butyrate was better I would be happy to use it regardless of cost.
john
Does Brodak do non shrinking dope?
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Post  SuperDave Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:54 pm

John:

The use of nitrate dope is confounded by the fact that nitrate is NOT fuel-proof and requires several coats of clear butyrate to make it so. Are you flying EP or nitro?
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Post  proctor Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:13 am

SuperDave wrote:John:
The use of nitrate dope is confounded by the fact that nitrate is NOT fuel-proof and requires several coats of clear butyrate to make it so. Are you flying EP or nitro?
Used it on everything,ic,rubber and electric and yes it is not fuel proof.
Have done a couple of hours of research, because I have an open mind and would
like to use it if it is really better. Here's what I found along the way.
Not readily available in the UK in colours unless you want to paint a full size aeroplane.
Celulose colour dope is much brighter than acrylics I am currently using
because acrylics reflect light less than celulose.
But here is the clincher for me!
Read a treatise on covering and finishing by Dave Platt namely:
"A comprehensive and specific guide to trophey winning finish for the scale modeller"
His main objection to Butyrate, lack of adhesion, will peal off nicely with masking tape.
Read it Dave and let me know what you think. John
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Post  SuperDave Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:26 am

John:

The only time that I've had butyrate peel off with masking tape is when it was applied in heavy coats that weren't thinned properly. Thinning allows the dope to penrate before it adheres.

I'll read the reference cited another day because today I'm off for a family picnic with our children and g'kids.
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Post  ahrma_581 Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:51 am

proctor wrote:Does Brodak do non shrinking dope?

Sig Lite-Coat is labeled as 'low shrink' butyrate. Available only in clear, not an issue for me as am applying it over nitrate on silkspan with tissue trim for color. More a translucscent effect than pigmented dope, but that's what I'm going for anyway.

Will let ya'll know how it works out as a fuel proofer.
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Post  SuperDave Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:00 am

ahrma:

Good point!

Colored tissue trim works well to provide trim patterns.

I am fond of Esaki tissue that comes in a wide variety of colors.
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Post  dankar04 Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:31 am

Pros and cons on everything. I use Areo-gloss as thats what I have. My last project used rattle can stuff and liked ease to apply. So what ever floats your boat.
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Post  SuperDave Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:49 am

Aero-gloss IS butyrate no doubt about that but it does not come in "rattle cans.

Brodak DOES offer "rattle can" finishes" but it may only be enamel which IS fuel proof. Never tried it to find out. My air brush setup handles any spraying that I do on models or around the house.

Got the air brush rig from our kids last Christmas.
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