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Post  statorvane Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:31 am

Working on getting some suplies for a few months of winter building. It took a while, but I believe I have found a source for butyrate dope - Brodak. Has anyone here used their finishing products?

I have yet to find a clear fuel proofer. I have used that to seal decals applied to a finished model.  I believe Pactra's Aero Gloss line used to feature a clear fuel proffer. Think that is what I used (it's been like 35 years...) with a badger airbrush. Anybody know of a clear fuel proffer compatible with a butyrate dope?
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Post  RknRusty Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:10 am

I've read our local experts say that both Sig and Brodak butyrate are good stuff, but wait for them to chime in with their first hand experience.

For sealing water slide decals and others, I have had great success with Lustrekote clear gloss in the spray can. However you have to use several EXTREMELY light dustings, or the water slides will craze badly. Heat the can until it's noticeably warm to the touch first and it will flow very well. If you use a light enough touch it won't damage them at all, and they will hold up to rough treatment with your alcohol cleaning rag for a long time. But, I haven't sprayed it over dope, just over Rustoleum colors and also Monokote and Ultracote.

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Post  getback Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:29 am

HELLO there !  I've never used BRODAK products but I have used a lot of SIG products and they have never failed me , that's what my local hobby shop has 30 miles away, just went black Friday to do the same as you 20% off nice. bounce   Butyrate Compatible Clear Fuel Proofer Img_0514   it was $9.95 for 4 oz.  they even said it was pricy Affraid or WOW! don't forget the sanding sealer I DID one reason I went  like Rusty said there will be more good  opinions on this .Eric
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Post  Kim Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:09 am

First of all, WELCOME to THE FORUM!!!!

I use Brodaks pretty-much exclusively, but more for a nostalgia kick than anything, and am nowhere near bring an expert...I DO have fun though !!!

The prices ARE really high, but I just take a deep breath and order the stuff by the quart or pint, and write it off as another part of the cost of the hobby.

I've got a gallon of clear dope and a one of thinner from Aviation Products Systems from Granite City, Illinois, and am hoping that it is compatible with Brodak Dope, but have tried the stuff yet.

I haven't used water-transfer decals in a while, and intend to try Rusty's method of light coats of Lusterkote when the time rolls around.

I don't use sanding sealer (though my planes might look better if I did), preferring to cover the whole plane in silkspan...lite weight for the solid areas and medium to heavy for open bays.  I give the plane a coat of full-strength clear, sand it, repeat, then lay down panels of light silkspan and "paint them on" with 50-50 dope and thinner.

I then sand and clear dope it until I've got reasonable shine, put down a white base-coat, then mask and go for color.  Our high-nitro fuel can sometimes streak the dope slightly, but I consider this just "part of the deal".

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Last edited by Kim on Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Ken Cook Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:09 am

One thing to bear in mind that NO dope is fuel proof. Sig Lite Coat has the best fuel resistance and clarity I've found next to Brodak's Crystal Clear. Brodak 1085 butyrate is very yellow in the can and if it's not, it will be in time and the sun is going to make this happen even faster. That being said your white turns into a cream color and your blues now turn to a greenish hue. However, John dug deeper into this and has what he sells now as Crystal Clear. This clear looks like water in the can and has terrific fuel and UV resistance. One qt is a little over $30 which is comparable to Sig. Crystal Clear is a must for some of his colors such as the metallics otherwise they fade in a very short time when exposed to the sun.

Sig products use a slower thinner than Brodak and this allows for  brushing and a smoother level finish and one that really locks in the shiny appearance. Brodak dope takes a different learning curve in which spraying is a far better option. The thinner used in Brodak dope uses  a medium drying thinner which will blush quickly even though the humidity level seems good enough to spray in. I've almost always had to use retarder every time I sprayed Brodak dope. Dope in my opinion could rapidly destroy any inkjet decals or vinyl in one coat if not careful.  You must spray as Rusty suggested misting on light dry coats approx 5-6 letting dry followed by a wet coat. Airbrush pencil sprayers work great for this kind of work. I spray my canopies entirerly in clear and buff and sand out when finished. The same thing can happen to a vacuum formed canopy that can happen to a decal.

If dope is being used with high nitro, be prepared that raw fuel on dope will quickly mar or remove it entirely. Using fuels in the 5-10% range is fair but even cleanup at the end of the day reveals color on towels even if clear was used. I see this more with Brodak vs Sig. I also have had it soften quicker as well. That being said, if your just sport flying and looking for a quick paint job, brush or spray away. Ken
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Post  statorvane Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:06 pm

Thank you all for the replys. I'll check out Sig. Previously, I had used Testors and Aero Gloss, but that was quite a while ago. IIRC the fuel proofer was crystal clear Aero Gloss and I sprayed it over the entire airplane to seal the decals, and add a barrier between the butyrate (fuel proof anyway) and the fuel. I have never experienced any color coming off the aircraft when wiping down after an afternoon of flying.

Ken wrote:...if your just sport flying and looking for a quick paint job, brush or spray away. Ken
Yes, pretty much where I'm at, or aim to be this spring. I plan on building a few profile Navy aircraft models for my nephews - get them interested in C/L. They have well outgrown the "Thomas the Tank engine stuff". Anyway I am thinking dark sea blue and white for the stars/bars, numerals, etc. Maybe I'll just mask off the areas like Kim did with the Little Traveler, which came out great BTW.

Again, thank you all kindly.
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Post  Ken Cook Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:23 am

Just in case your not aware of it, when masking, spraying clear along your tape line helps to prevent any color from bleeding under the tape revealing a nice crisp line. I don't care to use masking tape for doing so as the edge is somewhat jagged. I've used it in a pinch though. 3M makes some really good tape for masking stripes, numerals etc. The blue fine line they sell is very flexible and does sompund curves really well while the brown and green does straighter less radiused curves.

One helpful tip to prevent the tape from sticking is to warm the tape prior to be pulled using a hair dryer.
When painting trim many times when the tape is pulled, the overspray and flash is all over the tape and once removed it leaves a mess on the plane. Don't panic as this flash as I refer to it can be easily scraped off using a clean old plastic credit card. This is pretty much the nature of dope.

If your doing stars & bars, always paint your lighter colors first and back mask the rest. If you paint red first and then white alongside of the red, the white will attack the red leaving the white pinkish around the red. This would be the situation in the bars or roundels. Friskit paper works very well for dope masks which can be found in arts & craft stores. A good trick with using it is to lay it on your shirt first prior to placing it on the model and as this will pick up a slight bit of lint. The masking will still stick down fine but won't stick so bad that it's non removeable and will come off easier afterwards. Ken
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Post  Kim Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:56 am

Absolutely correct !!  Even on my sport-type finishes, I HATE color bleed-under, so sealing the edges of the tape with clear is essential, though I use a REAL nice, detail brush I got from somewhere to gently lay down some 50-50 clear along the tape's edge.

As with The Little Traveler, you can also use vinyl stick-on numbers and letters, peeling them off after CAREFULLY light-coating them with the next color.  It's important to first "De-Sticky" them to get them to peal off if the glue is very aggressive by purposely pressing them between your fingers until they seem right.

I figure you may already know a lot of this stuff, so please forgive if that's so...you never know when it might help fill some details for another one of our fellow model airplane sufferers!!!

Post some photos of your project(s) if you get a chance!  

Good Luck !!  Dopey Kim


Last edited by Kim on Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  andrew Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:47 am

I have neither the skill nor patience that Kim and Ken have WRT painting, but still use their approach.  I've also found that the thinner fine-line tapes work better, especially when sealing the edges.  

A problem area I've run into is managing the ridge where the colors meet --- it can be sanded down, but the paint must be absolutely dry, otherwise the dust from one color can embed in the other color leaving a blushed look.  If it is not too noticeable, I'll just knock the rough edges down, then use a narrow trim tape to separate the colors.
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Post  RknRusty Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:58 am

I've cut and pasted advice from this thread into a text file. I have no advanced finishing experience, and I want to have as much knowledge as I can, although untested, by the time I start a project on the schedule for next Winter, my first full fuselage stunter. I've also been searching out threads to bookmark that might serve as tutorials over at Stunt Hangar too. Those guys get a lot more serious, bordering on nutty, about it than I ever will.

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Post  Kim Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 pm

Yeah, my Flying Bud Neal went totally "Finish Besserk" a few years ago.  He would wait, he would meditate, he would apply one super-cautious step at a time, with calculated DAYS and WEEKS in between!  I swear that his airplanes' only purpose for existence was to serve as "Shells" for his fantastic paint jobs !!

Still, whatever cranks a guy...and it IS kinda neat to have somebody around whose projects take longer to finish than mine !!!!
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