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Post  WingingIt74 Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:26 am

I've only seen it mentioned on the website below, anyone know the story?

http://livingmasterpiece.com/stoneway/restore_engine.asp
"Silver Bullet" Black Widow??? Colorless_black_widow_2

I don't know if this story is true or not, I just like the look of it Smile I'm thinking of building one.
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Post  microflitedude Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:30 am

They were made, Beez has one. I don't think the red drive plate is original. The hardest part to get is that metal stunt backplate, but Bernie and Matt have the rest except the cylinder.
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Post  Mudhen Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:01 am

.


Last edited by Mudhen on Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  nitroairplane Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:51 am

Yeah that engine was not as made by cox, but I have seen unanodised engines of black widow spec made by cox, they were definitely post 1970 though.
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Post  Mark Boesen Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:53 am

Yep, it's another one of Leo's creations...
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Post  nitroairplane Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:53 am

Mark Boesen wrote:Yep, it's another one of Leo's creations...
Which are, for anyone who doesn't know, TRULY AMAZING!
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Post  microflitedude Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:58 am

That's right, I was thinking of the Estes Widow.
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Post  PV Pilot Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:55 am

A silver widow,,,got one next door, and she cant hear worth beans. Rolling Eyes
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Post  Admin Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:04 pm

Yeah, I have usually seen the unanodized Black Widows from the last "real" black widow production by Estes before they switched to the plastic non stunt tank. I do recall seeing unanodized mid 1980 Black Widows that were likely built that way due to a shortage of black parts one day or so.

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Post  lousyflyer Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:11 pm

Didn't all the Black Widow engines at least have a black crankcase?
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Post  nitroairplane Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:14 pm

lousyflyer wrote:Didn't all the Black Widow engines at least have a black crankcase?
No, there were some shipped all silver.
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Post  lousyflyer Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:19 pm

So were the silver widows part of the later production or the early metal backs?
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Post  nitroairplane Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:21 pm

The later Plastic ones, it is possible that engine in the first post was a silver black widow that later had a red driveplate and metal backplate added.
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Post  microflitedude Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:24 pm

PV Pilot wrote:A silver widow,,,got one next door, and she cant hear worth beans. Rolling Eyes

We got one of those at our new house. lol!
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Post  nitroairplane Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:29 pm

microflitedude wrote:
PV Pilot wrote:A silver widow,,,got one next door, and she cant hear worth beans. Rolling Eyes

We got one of those at our new house. lol!
The perfect neighbour for a fan of loud engines.
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Post  microflitedude Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:18 pm

nitroairplane wrote:
microflitedude wrote:
PV Pilot wrote:A silver widow,,,got one next door, and she cant hear worth beans. Rolling Eyes

We got one of those at our new house. lol!
The perfect neighbour for a fan of loud engines.

And that's the downside. Crying or Very sad Maybe if I keep the lil swamp buggy way out on the pond.... Very Happy
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Post  Mark Boesen Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:45 pm

"Silver Bullet" Black Widow??? Kgrhqz15"Silver Bullet" Black Widow??? Pictur20
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Post  nitroairplane Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:48 pm

Mark Boesen wrote:"Silver Bullet" Black Widow??? Kgrhqz15"Silver Bullet" Black Widow??? Pictur20
Not all are, but Mark it looks like what you posted may have been Estes' last Black widows, after exhausting their silver stunt tank stock they probably just shoved plastic 8cc non stunt tanks on.
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Post  Mark Boesen Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:56 pm

Yep, I think that is probably about the last of the BW.

I'm not saying there wasn't, but I've never seen or heard of a all silver Black Widow...some of the R/C Bees look close and also the Cox Spitfire had a larger tank on it, but no hicomp head.
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Post  nitroairplane Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:03 pm

I've seen them a few times and germanbeez has one NIB I think.
"Silver Bullet" Black Widow??? Silver10
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Post  WingingIt74 Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:37 am

I contacted Leo Squires and this is his response, very nice gentleman to talk with.


Travis,
 
This one strains my memory a little.  I sold it on eBay quite a while back, when I was re-discovering my interest in engines after forty years away from them.  I almost hate to even open discussion on this, because the readers are SO quick to get nasty, but here's the story on this engine...
 
I bought it at the MAL Hobby Shop in Irving, TX about 20 years ago.  MAL is one of the oldest American hobby shops in America, founded by the late legendary Edgar Seah.  Sadly, Edgar passed on at 100 a couple years ago.  I was going through the dusty archives of his shop (uncovering NOS Cox gold "Lil' Stinkers", NOS red-tank .010's, NOS parts of all descriptions...).  Among the items in the shop was this engine.  Edgar said it was an early Black Widow, probably obtained from a Cox sales rep.  He had it mounted on a display FireBaby for some years in the store.  He thought it came with some samples from Cox showing new products, but could not be absolutely sure of the date at that time.  I'm not going to argue with any fellow who was setting free-flight records probably before LeRoy Cox was born, and was surely the world's foremost expert on WWI, WWII and Korean War aircraft... LOL!
 
Every part on that engine is as-purchased... Head, cylinder, tank, backplate, needle, spinner, red-anodized prop-driver and spring-starter... the whole enchalada.  I never disassembled it, and only cleaned it up.  With its factory-polished finish, red prop-driver and gold backplate, it was a thing of beauty, and surely some kind of specially selected engine given to a top-selling dealer and it belonged in someone's collection.  So I sold it on eBay.
 
I know the famous Larry Renger has told the story of his original Black Widow many times... The always black block and tank, the red RUBBER spinner, cylinder spec's, and other correct parts, etc.  And that is certainly the way it is "supposed to be".  But a good number of Cox engines left the old Poinsettia St. factory in different-from-standard form.
 
I've personally restored two RR-1's for the original owner which were sold in PLASTIC BAGS with Cox info stapled to the bags.  These RR-1's had from the factory, no-fins silver BABE BEE blocks, fitted with RR-1 cranks.  They had Tee Dee spinners, and silver, NOT blue, un-anodized RR-1 finned tanks with the up/down fill tubes, AND metal backplates with dual fill tubes, as used on Widows, Golden Bees, etc.  They were factory modded to fit the RR-1 intakes.  That pair of engines was purchased in 1968, obviously using up left-over parts.  I used the last two of Burnis Rae's NOS yellow RR-1 blocks on them, and anodized the silver tanks blue.  Just more examples of the never-ending selection of Cox oddities out there.
 
I am NOT a Cox expert.  Just an enthusiast.  This engine is in its original configuration, and I cannot explain why the combination of parts.  This engine is what it is, as-purchased, in NOS condition, with the original story from the shop owner who obtained it many decades ago.  I have most certainly seen other "colorless" Black Widows, with an assortment of different needles, spinners, with and without factory spring starters, with and without Tee Dee heads, etc.  As a kid in the sixties I bought several Black Widows with the red-anodized Tee Dee style spinners, even though the Widow should have used a red RUBBER spinner.  As a kid, I also saw a few new Golden Bees with BLACK blocks at the local shop.
 
Now, the above story tells where and how I obtained this engine, and the story of its history as told to me by the then-eighty year old shop owner who truly was an expert in all glow and ignition engines.  I coined the term "Silver Bullet" for the auction listing, simply because that's what it reminded me of at the time, not to imply that was a Cox model name.  It was simply a Black Widow, albeit an unusual one.  PLEASE don't start a big deal over what parts it "should" be made from.  It WAS made as you see it.  I bought it in THAT configuration, verified by the shop owner with an impeccable reputation.  That's the whole history of the engine.  Period.  I did NOT build if from parts.  I bought is as you see it, some time in the 1990's, from the original dealer/owner, for $35.00 cash.  End of story.
 
Hope this info will clear the air as to how I obtained the engine, and its complete history.
 
Most sincerely,
 
Leo


Last edited by WingingIt74 on Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:40 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post  dankar04 Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:28 am

I made several Silver Widows myself years ago with parts. All with metal backplates. Even made a All silver Venom.
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Post  WingingIt74 Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:40 am

I would bet it's similar to the Cox Bumble Bee that Admin posted, COX built/designed but only a handful made as demos.

See Admin's post here:
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t2602-introducing-the-cox-049-bumble-bee-engine
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Post  SuperDave Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:22 am

Thank you for relating the story Leo.

I usually associate "Silver Bullet" with "The Lone Ranger". "Hi Ho. Silver!"
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Post  WingingIt74 Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:28 am

SuperDave wrote:Thank you for relating the story Leo.

I usually associate "Silver Bullet" with "The Lone Ranger". "Hi Ho. Silver!"

Here's what the "Silver Bullet" reminds me of:
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