CL myth #4.....The outside loop

**Cribbs74** Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:25 pm

Much like Bigfoot and Unicorns the outside loop is surely not possible.

The Bean took it's first big hit this evening. I started way up high and gave it full doen elevator and it went straight into the ground going mach 30 lol!

I have no idea what I am doing wrong......

https://i.imgur.com/enxou.jpg

CL myth #4.....The outside loop Enxou

Mark Boesen Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:40 pm

wow, not too bad for damage. Check CG and throw, start with a wingover and at very top of circle go full down, if plane can do a nice inside but not outside, i'd think theres a throw issue.

John Goddard Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:56 pm

With RC Ron the 'bunt' would be entered down wind
Rather than into wind for a standard loop.
Perhaps the way to tackle it should be to enter it
From inverted flight, that way the nasty near the ground
Bit of the manoeuvre is already set.
Very Happy

gcb Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:56 am

If you have not already tried it perhaps learning the lazy eight would be a better aproach. That way you could compare the size of the inside part to the outside part and make corrections until they are the same size.

When you check the up and down elevator deflection also check for flex in the pushrod. You may need to add a fairlead to limit flex.

Good luck.

George

Ken Cook Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:46 am

Ron, if this consistently occurs while trying this maneuver I would try it another way. It appeared to me that you could fly inverted' I certainly would fly inverted and enter the outside loop inverted. This will certainly help you in the event you need to bail. I've seen this happen when pilots are trying to do the outside square. The beginner pattern allows the square to be entered inverted. Ken

PV Pilot Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:03 am

A elevator with more surface area and move the CG forward?

Can't remember if it is forward or back for better stunting, to early still.

**Cribbs74** Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:08 am

CG is dead on. Yes, I am trying it from level flight. Is it only possible to do it from inverted? Or just easier?

My deflection is good, I will snap a couple pics so you guys can judge wether or not it's set up ok. Thanks for the tip guys.

Ron

Mudhen Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:34 am

SuperDave Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:00 am

Mud's explaination is well-stated and consistant with my experience as a "ukie" (U-control) pilot of long standing.

**RknRusty** Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:02 am

After you make it more tail heavy(or less nose heavy) as suggested above, test fly it with only a sip of fuel in case it flies like a wild pig. Change it in small increments. I suggest about 1/8" at a time.

I also agree, next time start from inverted so you can bail out. Then it's just like a backwards inside loop.

**Cribbs74** Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:10 am

Ok, if anything it may be a tad nose heavy. Just a tad...... I will add a tiny bit of weight and see how it goes.... Wish me luck!

SuperDave Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:15 am

Key, of coure, with "looping" either way is to start with sufficent ALTITUDE and work downward as you confidence builds. AMA rules require loops at shoulder height when complete.

Further don't try looping with a "pukey" engine. Wink

PV Pilot Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:34 pm

RknRusty wrote: test fly it with only a sip of fuel in case it flies like a wild pig.

LMAO!,,where does the down string go on a setup like that?,,,oh,,,nevermind,,,figured it out. Very Happy

pkrankow Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:43 pm

Been a while (20 years), but I always did outside loops from inverted because it is easier and safer (and I was just becoming capable) . You can start upright from about 45 degrees, but Earth is a hard stop! Get the feel from inverted, know the size YOUR plane makes, then you can choose your stunt entry as you desire.

My Lil Jumping bean from back then (School and Life got in my way, just getting back into this and I lost all my skills) was able to outside loop just fine. The plane is capable of every stunt in the pattern with a healthy engine.

Phil

fit90 Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:05 pm

You might want to check if either the wing or stab have a positive angle of incidence. If they do then when the plane is inverted that angle becomes negative which can have a huge effect on how they work.

**Cribbs74** Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:42 pm

Here is my deflection. Looks good to me. Click on the links for a better pic

https://i.imgur.com/emHHZ.jpg

CL myth #4.....The outside loop EmHHZ

https://i.imgur.com/wM20P.jpg

CL myth #4.....The outside loop WM20P

Mark Boesen Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:18 pm

Hi Ron,

Yep, throw looks good, anything more then 25-30 degrees or so is drag. Not sure what to think...I'd look at CG to be about where the top edge of the two decals are on wing to maybe 1/4" back, look at side view (after epoxying nose back on) for straight thrust line, possible pushrod deflection? Coming up over the top before outside loop gives you plenty of room, but looking back, I think a lazy eight might be better, more relaxing and give you time to see what plane can do.

good luck,

Mark

**Cribbs74** Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:41 pm

Mark Boesen wrote:Hi Ron,

Yep, throw looks good, anything more then 25-30 degrees or so is drag. Not sure what to think...I'd look at CG to be about where the top edge of the two decals are on wing to maybe 1/4" back, look at side view (after epoxying nose back on) for straight thrust line, possible pushrod deflection? Coming up over the top before outside loop gives you plenty of room, but looking back, I think a lazy eight might be better, more relaxing and give you time to see what plane can do.

good luck,

Mark

Mark,

I already epoxied the nose back on. CG was set up per plans. I added a good bit of weight to the tail to level it out. It does lazy eights and goes inverted at the snap of the wrist. Who knows.... Could very well just be pilot error. I am still pretty new at this gig. There is no pushrod deflection and It has the little eyelet on it to keep it to a minimum.

Ron

Mark Boesen Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:07 pm

I remember my first attempt at flying in a stunt contest, I was nowhere close to being ready, but it was always a dream of mine to compete in one. I had just got back (first be-back, early 80's) into C/L but wanted to fly my newly built Banshee, I wasn't gonna miss this chance...anyway, coming down from the wingover I wanted to do a really quick hard bottom...but the damm plane went straight in, smack! nose first into ground...i remember standing there thinking ...what happened? Something come loose? pushrod? elevator? After a couple minutes it started to dawn on me...maybe i just didn't pull out in time!!!!

**RknRusty** Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:09 pm

I agree, that's absolutely enough deflection.

I glued the nose back on my Bean so many times it finally let go. It broke loose in flight and the engine swung over and chopped my LE in half. lol!

After that I rebuilt it with doublers and it was indestructible. The rest of the plane bit the dust but the nose was intact.

**RknRusty** Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:12 pm

Mark Boesen wrote:...I wanted to do a really quick hard bottom...but the damm plane went straight in, smack! nose first into ground...i remember standing there thinking ...what happened? Something come loose? pushrod? elevator? After a couple minutes i started to dawn on me...maybe i just didn't pull out in time!!!!

I saw Ron mow some weeds in his video the other day too. But he got it back up just in time to keep on flying.

duke.johnson Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:52 pm

How did you do with the outsides? I remember the first time I did an outside (without going straight into the ground). My problem, when I started into it up high, gave it full down, then I followed the plane down with my handle. When following the plane with the handle, the lower my handle went the more neutral it went. So as I learned, I just kept my hand a little higher than my shoulder when doing outsides. Seemed to be the ticket.

SuperDave Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:35 pm

Duke:

The usual practice is to keep the handle at shoulder-level and move your wrist rather than you entire arm.

Ask Rusty, he learned diffently. Laughing

**RknRusty** Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:50 pm

SuperDave wrote:Duke:

The usual practice is to keep the handle at shoulder-level and move your wrist rather than you entire arm.

Ask Rusty, he learned diffently.

Yep, I'm an outside loopin' lizard! lol!

Stiff arm, wrist motion only.

**Cribbs74** Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:34 pm

Haven't even tried since my last failed attempt. I have broken every plane badly attempting to do one. I am a little gun shy now Affraid or WOW!

I watched an experienced feller fly and he led the plane through manouvers. I think my technique needs work. As I tend to just give full up or down and keep my arm still.

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