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Post  OVERLORD on Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:54 pm

Here is the test run video of the Enya 19 VI engine I'm planning to mount in my JR Satan. I used fuel with 10% nitro. The needle valve was opened 1,5 turns. Before I started it, the engine seemed kind a dry inside and I could notice a slight crankpin play. After running, this play seems to have disappeared; due to an oïl film?. The engine stand is rather temporary. I fixed the engine with wood screws, but during running, it almost went walkabouts.




I had the impression that there were quite some vibrations.
Because of the stroboscopic effect, rpm variations are visible.

Lieven
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Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:17 pm

Looks like it ran ok, I think some of your vibration issue may be caused by the way it was mounted. Having two opposing screws may be enough to keep it held down, but not enough to keep the engine from lifting. If you look close in the video you can actually watch the corner of the engine mount lifting up.

Just an observation

Ron
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Post  gcb on Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:27 pm

Lieven,

Is the Enya VI an iron/steel or ABC?

My Enya V's are iron/steel and run well.

Because of the prevalence of ABC many forget that iron/steel should be broken-in.

George
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Post  OVERLORD on Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:30 pm

Hi Ron,

I saw that too. It's amazing how the engine mounts dig into the wood. I need to change that set up. Here's a video with the muffler in place. It helps supporting the noise. I found that out when I took off my ear muffs. When the engine was running without the muffler, my wife came home and walked in a large circle around me making some signs I did not want to understand.




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Post  OVERLORD on Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:50 pm

Hi George,

Steel/iron, it is. I bought the engine 2nd hand and I believe it has got already some flight hours. The needle spring has a kink in it from a rough landing. Does the fuel have to contain some castor?

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Post  Surfer_kris on Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:19 pm

All castor is the best way to go with the old-school technology that the Enya 19 VI has.
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Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:22 pm

OVERLORD wrote:Hi Ron,

I saw that too. It's amazing how the engine mounts dig into the wood. I need to change that set up. Here's a video with the muffler in place. It helps supporting the noise. I found that out when I took off my ear muffs. When the engine was running without the muffler, my wife came home and walked in a large circle around me making some signs I did not want to understand.




Lieven

That's Hilarious!!!!!
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Post  Ken Cook on Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:30 pm

Lieven, Enya's need a lot of break in time. That's just the way they are. It appears your test stand block is a piece of pine which would be the reason your engine is digging into your block. It really should be made from a piece of hardwood and machine screws used vs. wood screws. One other thing I might mention, The Enya mufflers are horrible for control line use. The exit hole is much too small and should be drilled out to the max even cutting the stinger off is in order at times. It retains too much heat and the engine will overheat and sag. Some Enya mufflers have a gate on the bottom which you can open. These should be left open and the holes drilled out as well. The recommended oil content for the Enya is 20%. I've seen many of these just shut off when too much oil is used like 25% even when the hottest plugs are used.

I don't run all castor fuel. I'm well aware of what's recommended, I just use my fuel of choice. I won't disagree that the Enya shouldn't be run on all castor fuel however. One thing to keep in mind, if any of the screws that retain the front portion of the crankcase on come loose, this will cause a vacuum leak and the engine won't run. If it occurs in the air, the engine will immediately shut off. Make sure those 4 screws are kept tight. Another problematic area is the o-ring under the venturi, if the venturi is wiggling AT ALL seal up with gasket maker formulated for alcohol or double the o-ring and really squeeze the venturi down so that you can insert the spraybar. Ken
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Post  OVERLORD on Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:49 pm

Thanks Ken, The wood is a piece of dunnage wood I found in a container and not any good. The fuel I have is 17% oïl but it will be all synthetic. So I'll have to add some castor but it's a pain in the backside to find that over here; I have to keep on looking.

Is it better to mount on of those peace pipe exhausts? I've read a thread on RCG about it concerning Tatone mufflers.

Lieven
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Post  Ken Cook on Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:47 pm

Lieven, the Tatone Peace Pipe was not a good choice of muffler. I don't know why someone would suggest that muffler. Again, far too restrictive even more over your stock Enya. Control liners are frugal. I don't mean that in a disrespectful way, it's just that they will run or fly anything until it absolutely gives up even if this means completely rebuilding something. They typically just won't build new unless absolutely necessary or purchase accessories unless it's absolutely needed. In respect to that, I can see one suggesting the Peace Pipe more for the simple fact that it was universal to engines. The problem however was that the engines they were using the Peace Pipe on was more damaging to the engine. Those engines were not designed to be muffled, the K&B greenheads, red head Mccoy's, Fox .35's (Wide bypass) and many others. These engines don't tolerate heat well and it can ruin some of them in one run.

I'm not sure if you attain items through the mail, but Tower Hobbies offers this material http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?I=LXD621&P=8 Several mufflers can be made from one extrusion but you need to supply the end cap material. This muffler has been successfully used on my Enya .15's. I just compared the mufflers I had in hand with the Enya .19. With a little chamfering of the inside of the muffler extrusion, and a slight bevel of the exhaust stack, the muffler would fit quite snug on the .19 using the stock strap. I alter the amount of holes for the desired run I'm trying to achieve. Ken

Tongue mufflers work far superior to the above mufflers and can easily be made with the exception of reducing noise which they don't do well. The one feature with the Enya engines is the strap, the strap is very hard and can be made to work with owner built or commercially made tongue mufflers. You can purchase Dubro aluminum extrusion and cut and make your own just requiring a end cap and tap holes for your strap. Here's a picture of a few I make for the Fox .35.
ENYA .19 VI test run Dscn1825
ENYA .19 VI test run Dscn1826
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Post  gcb on Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:57 pm

OVERLORD wrote:Hi George,
Steel/iron, it is. I bought the engine 2nd hand and I believe it has got already some flight hours. The needle spring has a kink in it from a rough landing. Does the fuel have to contain some castor?

Lieven

Assuming it is already broken in, some castor in the fuel helps prevent "thermal runaway" on extremely lean runs. That's when the engine heats up enough that most synthetics burn instead of lubricate.

Many use a half castor/half synthetic lubed fuel with great success. When an iron/steel engine is almost worn out, sometimes you can regain some compression by switching to an all castor fuel. There are folks who use all synthetic successfully also.

I would suggest NOT using 17% fuel. Add your castor to get it up to 20+ percent.

As has already been stated, if you treat it right an Enya will last a LONG time.

BTW, back in the 50's or 60's Enya ran a Enya .19 for 300 hours and, when they checked for wear it had almost none. Bear in mind though that most wear probably occurs during starting.

George
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Post  Surfer_kris on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:20 am

I have seen people who have ruined a brand new Enya engine by running with their regular all synthetic fuel, the engine will not wear in properly without castor. The castor forms a varnish on the piston and cylinder surfaces that helps to seal and protect against direct metal to metal contact.

There is nothing wrong with synthetic oils in modern ABC/ABN engines with ball bearings etc, but for the oldschool iron/steel construction you do need the fuel that they were developed with.
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Post  OVERLORD on Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:46 pm

Thanks for your tips.

I found some castor oil, ordered it and it's already in the post (they said). I'll add castor to reach the 20% oïl content or a tad more.

I'm still baffled by these nicely made tongue mufflers, Ken. And those pictures say more than a 1000 words. I suppose that the stock muffler extensions as sold by f.i. OS are not long enough to do the job?

No, just measured it, It's got a length of 11/16" only.

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Post  OVERLORD on Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:05 pm

Today, I cut off the stinger of the Enya muffler:

ENYA .19 VI test run Dsc05310

The original hole has a diameter of 6mm, representing a surface of 28,3mm² while the exhaust port of the engine has a surface of 123,5mm². By cutting off the end of the muffler, the hole is enlarged to a diameter of 10mm giving a surface of 78,5mm². This is almost 3x as much as the original opening. That should have some effect.

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Post  roddie on Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:48 pm

I have the .19-V and need a model for it. The two airplanes that "would be" candidates (which I have both of) are a Jr. Ring and Jr. Flite Streak. The Enya is a heavy engine though.. and I thought I'd use my old Fox .15 for those two airplanes as stunt trainers.

Is a good running Enya .19 more capable on certain .19/.35 size models (either profile or full-fuse) than other models in that size range? It would seem that this engine needs an airplane somewhere in between.. like 32-34 inches in span.. and between 250-275 square inches. Maybe a "shortened" (tail-moment) scratch-build of a good performing profile stunter for .19/.35 engines would be lightweight enough to place the engine's power/weight somewhere in the middle?

I'm just hoping to get a few larger models built for next season.. as well as a site to go and fly without needing to use mufflers. Here in Northern Rhode Island.. we border the states of Massachusetts and Connecticut. I can drive to either in less than 30 minutes. This region is quite rural.. with farms and sprawling fields dotting the landscape. I need to make a connection with a land-owner for securing a secluded field. Shh My larger glow engines are all old irons.. pre-1970's vintage and most of them are in very good condition. I have planes partially built for my Fox .29/.35 stunt engines. My full-size VooDoo will get the .29 and the .35 is going on the S1 Ringmaster. No mufflers will be run on these. I also need to update my AMA status.
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Post  gcb on Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:03 am

Most vintage profiles like the Flite Streak were labeled for .19 to .35 so the Enya should work fine. I would suggest 52'x.012 lines. If you want a 'tweener sized between the FS and the FS Jr. check out the profile Peacemaker. George Aldrich designed it for the Oliver Tiger .15 diesel.

George
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Post  Surfer_kris on Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:20 am

The regular Enya engines are a crossflow design, so the .19 can take a relatively large prop compared to more modern ABC designs. So that makes them suited for pulling larger planes even if the power outputs are similar.
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Post  roddie on Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:19 am

Thanks George and Kris.. definitely some good food for thought. Cold
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Post  Ken Cook on Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:35 am

Roddie, is that Ring already drilled for an engine? The Enya .19 and the Fox .35 are extremely close in hole spacing. You can easily enlarge either the upper or lower set of holes on the fuse and it should accommodate both the Fox .35 and the Enya. Seeing that you haven't engaged in a whole lot of flying, this would certainly be a good stepping stone. A # 30 drill bit will open the hole accordingly assuming the holes aren't too close to the edge of the bearers and allow a swap. It won't be a powerhouse, but it won't fly too bad. I've seen this combo work. Ken
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Post  roddie on Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:57 pm

Ken Cook wrote:Roddie, is that Ring already drilled for an engine? The Enya .19 and the Fox .35 are extremely close in hole spacing. You can easily enlarge either the upper or lower set of holes on the fuse and it should accommodate both the Fox .35 and the Enya. Seeing that you haven't engaged in a whole lot of flying, this would certainly be a good stepping stone. A # 30 drill bit will open the hole accordingly assuming the holes aren't too close to the edge of the bearers and allow a swap. It won't be a powerhouse, but it won't fly too bad. I've seen this combo work. Ken

Hi Ken.. The Ring's engine bearers are not drilled yet. One of you guys with more experience could finish this model.. "ready to fly" in less than a week. The wing is 90% built.. and straight as an arrow.. but not glued into the fuse yet. The fuse has it's maple beams/ply-doublers and tail-feathers installed.

ENYA .19 VI test run Ring_f10
ENYA .19 VI test run Ring_w10

old school... You guys have given me prior advice on this model.. and I've taken some notes. Re-(Ambroid) gluing all my wing-joints is in order.. as well as some reinforcement/gusseting in some key areas at the root/center joints I believe? I promise to apply the K.I.S.S. principle to this model.. until finish time. I think it's important; especially if running the Enya.. that it be as light as possible. Would a silk and dope finish be the lightest? I have LOTS of Aero-Gloss Butyrate.. but no silk. I do however have TONS of silkspan-tissue. I also have MonoKote. As you stated Ken, my skill level will require a durable model.. and perhaps the extra weight of iron-on would be worth it for it's strengthening properties?
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Post  Ken Cook on Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:16 pm

Dope and silkspan receives a big thumbs down. In fact, I can't remember the last time I saw one in silkspan and dope. Why would you want to put silkspan and dope on it? You would gain no benefit using dope and sikspan. It would be a major pain in the rear to maintain and fix and one crash and your fixing the stuff. Save the silkspan and dope later. Throw any old Monokote on the bird and go fly it. Don't get out of hand decorating it, use light foamie parkflyer wheels . The main importance is how you set the controls up on the RIng. Set your elevator to the slowest settings possible. A plastic tank can save a bit more weight and woodie props. No spinners, no bells and whistles and your set. Did you hold the Enya up to the bearers? Ken
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Post  pkrankow on Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:53 pm

Find a set of plans and make sure it is built right. I am unsure if this plan is correct to the structure or just to the lines.
http://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=3501
It appears that sheeting is missing from the center of the wing.

Check the glue joints (clean and fix if needed). If they are good put a coat of clear dope over the center sections. This is to prevent fuel/oil soaking on the off chance this model lasts for more than a handful of outings :p

Select a bell crank and install it. I would recommend a Brodak nylon bell crank, or similar.
http://brodak.com/control-line-parts/bellcranks/brodak-3.html

I would use the Brodak lead outs, but I would use brass or aluminum 1/16 inch tubing and make bushings according to the how-to on Stunthanger
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=36976.0
If you want you can use the bare wire cable and make the outer thimbles the same way as the bushed bell crank connection, just wrap around a sized rod like a 1/8 inch drill shank.
(I am not a fan of music wire lead outs, but they are acceptable if sized and terminated properly)

Finish the fuselage out with your choice of paint. Dope, Rustoleum, whatever. Wrap the wings in your choice of film. I like installing the wing prior to covering, but going the ARF route and covering the wing then opening the glue slot with a soldering iron, and installing is a real choice. I recommend a simple period color scheme.

Now you have a second choice on the fuselage and remake it to go electric with the wing. Brodak has a plywood battery tray and motor mount.

Phil

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Post  roddie on Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:16 pm

The beams are wide-spaced.. As it is, the only two engines that will safely fit are my OS Max III .29 or my McCoy .35 Red-Head with the lightning-bolt case.

I'd much rather do an iron-on finish.. I was just stating what I did and didn't have for materials. I kind of figured that the silkspan wasn't a good idea.

Yes.. the top center wing-sheeting is not yet installed.. which is good.. because the bellcrank plate should be re-glued.. and some other bracing done in that area. Ron Cribbs mentioned a few other things to me on the phone one night.. but I neglected to write them down. I have a couple of Sig 3" Nylon bellcranks and I'll make my own braided lead-outs. Would a tip-weight box be worth the effort to build?
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Post  pkrankow on Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:44 pm

Yes, if there is no tip weight installed.  Build a box using 1/8 inch plywood, or order the Brodak box.  Use a T nut (blind nut) and a screw (#4 should be easy to get, or use a #6 if you must).  Cap the lid with soft balsa so it can be shaped fair, use some quarter ribs and sheeting to give place to seal the covering to.

http://brodak.com/control-line-parts/weight-boxes/adjustable-weight-box.html

(The lids are 1 inch square)

If tip weight per the plans is already installed I would be inclined to not worry about the matter.

Those SIG bell cranks are good.

Phil
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Post  Ken Cook on Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:24 am

I certainly won't disagree with Phil, he's made some credible points. However, the Ringmaster isn't a competition stunter, it's a weekend sport flyer. Don't go looking for performance in a Ringmaster. Your skill level needs to determine how you build it. #1: Don't fall in love with this plane. It could last 1/2 a lap to several years. From what I see your already plagued with a problem. The spar aka rib ripper is installed in that wing. The rib ripper will destroy that entire wing if you hit the ground. The trailing edge absolutely needs to be glassed from the center to the sheeting both directions and then installed. The center spar is not needed in the Ring and most Sterling kits and when used, the momentum of the plane hitting the ground combined with the wing hinging on it's leading edge causes all the ribs to bow inwards until they explode. A simple nylon bellcrank is all that's required. Simple loops and crimps are all that's needed. The lifespan of this plane is probably going to be short lived if you never flew stunt before. Keep the plane simple and go fly. If you choose to use a Sig 3" it comes stock with 2 holes, drill an additional hole directly on the molded I in the word Sig evenly spaced from the others. The last hole on the bellcrank  could be cut off if required to clear the rib. You now slowed down your controls for the Ring to fly properly. A tip weight box on the Ring is not required. It does little to how the plane flies and gluing 5/8 oz of weight properly installed within the wing is sufficient if your using steel lines. If you choose to fly on Power Pro Braid I would suggest using 3/8- 1/2oz. of weight. If more is required which I highly doubt, smashing a 1/4 oz. weight until it's paper thin and slicing a slot into your outboard tip and stuffing it in is required. There's no need to open your wing. Tip weight boxes are typically accessed one time and after that they just go for the ride until you smash the plane. Ken
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