The infamous Cox PT-19 Control Line Trainer

Thx Marleysky...from the information I gathered here on this topic is think it 1st generation reverse colors model. It's at least 1963.

Curtis.

nice plane, yep, assuming the spinner is original (prop is not) i'd put it '63-'65. A couple other clues would be to look for the starter spring groove, as well as the backplate.

Marleysky wrote:Reverse color (of yours, ) "normal" ? model went for $117.50 on eBay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291991506097?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I wonder how well this one flew with the wing on backwards?

thats a rare prototype swept wing version....

Thanks Mark for the engine information. I have not received the model yet as it's in transit but when I get I'll check it. I do have a 1962 baby bee spare exactly the way you described . Swept wing proto type? Can you explain more?

Thanks Curtis.

sorry, poor attempt at humor, it's on backwards...

Lol Mark, the wing is on properly. The leadout guides are on the left side of the plane.

Curtis.

Curtis , Welcome to the Forum !! The one one Ebay is the one with the wing on Backwards !! These guys will reel you in if not careful Nice looking PT-19 with the extras too . (yours)

Lol i'm stupid...thx for the welcome getback. I'm just to excited to receive it...

Curtis.

Here's a different color I have in an early version PT-19. It's a bluish green and bright yellow
It's shown with the more common blue/yellow version.

I have a Kenbright,  Made In Australia molded in the bottom of the wing where it used to say Cox, made in USA. I traded it for a NIB Seafire to a guy in Australia about 17 years ago, got the box and everything. The yellow and blue are lighter hues than the USA versions, different dye in the plastic.

When I worked at Cox, they would change molds on the injection machines and "purge" the last color used before with the new color of plastic. The first several parts that came out of the mold were the old previous color for example if they were running the jeep before, then switched to PT-19 fuselage mold, the first fuselages would be ARMY OD green.  As the new blue plastic mixed into the hopper and melter, then the next parts would be a blueish green, with Sherbet type swirling of the colors. After a few dozen parts were run, then the new color would clear up. We used to go by and grab these odd ball colored parts, as no two were alike in color due to the mixing of the old and new plastic.

I had a PT-19 wing that was red and white swirled like a peppermint candy cane, with some pink in it as well!  

For proofing of the molds, done for first time evals or after mold repairs and modifications, we ran clear plastic, so they could see any flaws and stress in the parts. My friend has an all clear PT-19, and Mustang.

One example of the color blending process can be seen on the WW-1 Fokker, and Sopwith Camel Props.

Jay-Very cool info! Thanks!

jmendoza wrote:I have a Kenbright,  Made In Australia molded in the bottom of the wing where it used to say Cox

Well I really think it just needs to come back home to Australia.  I'll send you my address if you like.

I just noticed that the QZ version of the PT-19 is actually the same as the 1st version but molded in a different color and has a QZ/muffler engine. It used the early fuselage to make room for the muffler.

There were some other very subtle  changes so there are at least 6 generations from what I have seen, possibly more.

Original versions had windscreens mounted to fuselage, individual pilots.
Next version came with painted pilots
Another version had the painted pilots mounted as a unit. Then there was the all-in-one painted pilots and windscreen assembly, fuselage cockpit openings enlarged.
While they still had metal tank Babe Bees, they had chrome painted the hubs on the wheels.
The versions with plastic backed engines had several iterations:
One had the gas tank molded as part of the fuselage with two filler tubes, while a later version had a snap in white plastic tank.  The fuselage was changed to only one filler tube and a check valve vent.  The removable tank versions had the sure-start engine with long intake tube and a notch in the fuselage to accommodate it.

Rudder red/white stripe decals were added.

At some point, the fuselage was modified with the addition of four hooks for the wing rubber bands.  This was done in case one of the four nubs on the wings for the rubber bands broke.  Pilot heads glued to fuselage.
Chrome painted wheel hubs disappeared.

The final version made in China had a wingtip weight added,  2 piece painted pilot head and scarf, pilot's body was molded as part of the fuselage, windscreens were molded frames (no clear) The plastic used was far more flexible and almost unbreakable.

During the first years, the rudder was usually the same color as the fuselage. Later versions came with the wing, stab and rudder all the same color.

I have also seen that Cox packaged the PT-19 in several different boxes. There was the clear window display versions, and there were also  plain brown cardboard box versions. There were also deluxe versions which typically came with a starter kit that included battery and fuel, engine wrenches.   Some of plain Jane cardboard box versions had unpainted pilots, while the display window versions, especially the deluxe, had painted pilots.

Cox used to also sell generically packaged RTF planes and RTR cars /boats to community based organizations, the Military (PX  sales) or to companies as promotional or prize items such as Alpo,  or magazine door to door subscription prizes.  In those instances, you might get a miss-matched color scheme as Cox sold this stuff at a discount in volume to clear out old stock, and oddball stock.

I don't know if Mark Boesen would approve, although I think he doesn't mind sharing his knowledge. Here is a link to a document he created on the history of the PT-19 on his Facebook 049 collectors page:  Gas Toy & 049 COLLECTOR

https://www.facebook.com/download/2073783565973989/THIMBLEDROME%20PT-19.docx?av=1502096418&eav=AfbJ-5TiOzXSEXx5Yf9rYg-4H-XDeG94_hYcT-ROx-wnHiZceVKN9sKU3fQ7m4uTUtQ&hash=AcqC73BMm0lS1nXv4sE&__cft__[0]=AZV0EaLbPb4khxc37M5DuYS32r6S6IoBdBaiiKlia8XGnTwAINoPkwbPoRDYaAPX3uIjMNP1t45xtgvGIHcSYnun2Yozup9iaJjLvEndBCVP98ZC1_F22CGLGgtjRHow_hwcBm-G3oytOSV7R4ZYdaG4&__tn__=H-R

YEAH! ! It allready is in our COX Model info files, on the left hand side of the page:

https://60d46b49-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/coxengineid/THIMBLEDROME%20PT-19.pdf?attachauth=ANoY7cpTHFJ1FUjdEgwocpIYYWjbnF_gzcR8kl9T8uMxo396qSzI48cOiFJrvROTXR90S1dVFA2CCF8Lk8IdkuP4CRQ4achR4DANMh54TzefQzOP3h927ZjFFsg-rYwlToTD16E6LpC-qJutmMDbKyYmIcU9jx85kQcnrwO7gMrpcT8iK4D6kgF_XOofMUrA1qMTVZIo3D13oeKOPsU54ZlAFmnKy-qzPOU7n8InQ2zHc9gDqCQSP5E%3D&attredirects=0

I noticed a reference to Leisure moving the plastic molding to Minneapolis in 1971. While I was at Cox from 1979-80, we were still injection molding PT-19s, and many other plastic planes and cars as well. It may be that some of the injection molding was moved, but we were still  making planes at Santa Ana.  The mold shop was a room on the south east side of  1505 Warner which was about 20x 20 square and they were always a couple guys in there polishing and repairing molds, or working on new ones as well. I used to pass by it on my way to punch in at the time clock, or going to the cafeteria. Adjacent to the huge line of injection molding machines were large stacks of molds for all the products, they were very heavy and required a fork lift to move them.

Nice document on all the PT-19 versions, thanks guys!!!

Wow, I have seen several NIB/NOS Cox PT-19 trainers go for around $400 on eBay, amazing!

More amazing is that they were the final "You-Fly" made in China versions sold from 1995 onward. I can understand the original Thimble Drome versions, pristine in the box going for big bucks, but the made in China versions seem to be very desirable.

I can say they are more durable and can be made to fly very well with a few simple tweaks that I outlined in another post. Still an iconic plane after all these years!

Jay

Once in Beijing in a shopping mall some 15 or so years ago, I noticed a COX PT-19 hanging in a toy shop window. I could not believe my eyes...Was it Estes who had the production or at least the assembly of these models outsourced to China?

Good stuff.

Saved Jay's page. Already had Mark's.

The lowly little Cox PT-19 has achieved immortality. "Crash resistant." Love it.

The 4 made in China PT-19s I purchased around 2000 all had $5 rebate certificates that I sent back to the Estes Colorado address on them for a check. I'm assuming the engines were machined here in the USA and sent to China. Whatever happened to the molds is anyone's guess.
Jay

Good stuff! As with many, it was my first "attempt" to fly something with a motor.

I have a couple, an older and newer version with boxes that I keep on display in my shop.

Got this version and have not ben able to find out its history.
I assume its a version sold by a local company in a same way Graupner did in Germany