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"Cox Tee Dee .010"



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Recent engine acquisitions

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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  KariFS on Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:31 am

A little while ago I was given (yes, given, can you believe the generosity of some people!!) some engines, among them this nice little Space Bug Jr.

It was not stuck but did not turn freely either so I didn't force it. The needle was of the later type and one of the mounting ears was cracked a little. Some "battle scars" here and there, but the cylinder is in perfect condition. Just the way I like them Smile It makes a great addition to my collection, this is my first "old school" cast crankcase Cox engine. For some reason, I like these old engines to show their age somewhat and I love cleaning and fixing them up (or maybe this is just a way to rationalize being too cheap to buy NIB Laughing).

Here it is "as delivered":



My only spare "old style" needle valve was bent from two spots. I used a 4" adjustable wrench and a junk babe bee backplate to straighten it. An adjustable wrench is a good tool for this, as the jaws are smooth and you can pre-set the jaw gap before bending. With pliers I tend to squeeze harder as I bend harder, and it is easy to leave marks on the work piece. Anyway, it is not 100% perfect, but it goes freely all the way in, and I can't see it being bent when it is installed. Glad I saved that old needle.

Nex step was to remove all I could. The cylinder wouldn't budge, I didn't force it as it has very thin walls:



Fast Forwarding past the hot ultrasonic bath. Metal parts took a bath in hot ethanol, plastic parts had water and dishwashing detergent (hand wash kind). I poured the crankcase full of oil, turned the crank over so that the oil went everywhere, refilled and left the engine on the glass jar nose down, allowing the oil seep through the crank bearings.



All the parts were first dried off, it was easy as they were warm after the bath. Then I either wiped them with oily Q-tip or wipe, or dipped them in oil.

Next step was reassembly.



The reed assembly had three parts, a ring and two copper "leaves", one very thin and the other a little thicker. The copper parts separated in the bath, so I am not sure of the order they were originally, but my "common engineering sense" advised me to put the thin one against the intake.



There were no gasket between the tank and the crankcase, not sure if there should be one. The plastic parts cleaned up very nice in the bath.



Here's the end result. I like it Smile



As a final step, being me (a test engineer and a science nerd), I filtered the ethanol bath through tissue, here's what was caught:



There were some silica (sand), some solid castor crud and even a couple of small metal shavings. The sand is probably off the exterior surfaces, but there were some on and around the exhaust ports too.

There were a couple of other engines in the same lot, more about them later Wink
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  roddie on Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:53 am

Nice job Kari! I'd never seen a Space Bug taken apart. It looks like new!
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:00 am

roddie wrote:Nice job Kari! I'd never seen a Space Bug taken apart. It looks like new!

Me too. I have taken quite a few SB Jr's apart but not down as far as Kari did regarding the reed assembly. Great job on that.

I usually dip my "cleaned" parts in alcohol as a final step too. Unbelievable as to what comes out when you do from supposedly "clean" engines. I'm talking A/F boil, followed by Simple Green and hot water rinses. Still all kinds of debris winds up in the bottom of the alcohol solution.

Bob
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  KariFS on Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:08 am

Thanks guys! I had no idea how this engine was put together, and when I removed the tank, the entire reed assembly stayed in the crankcase. While the parts were soaking, I tried to find parts lists and exploded views of the Jr, and discovered that the tank and the reed assy were sold as a unit, maybe not meant to be taken apart at all?

When I reassembled it, I fit the reed assy on the tank first and it sat there kind of snugly. Not sure if it should be tighter, but I did not want to mess with it more than necessary, since these parts are made of Unobtainium, a very rare and easily damaged material as we know Wink

If I am going to run this engine someday (it does have a great compression!), I will need to investigate the reed situation further. And I better make a note of this so that I'll remember it too if/when that time comes Smile
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:20 am

My very first Cox engines Kari, I still have one of them. If I recall, the assembly has crimps 180 out and snaps on.

Bob
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  getback on Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:01 pm

Here you go new JR. owner skim down to Mudhen reply  https://www.coxengineforum.com/t8967-space-bug-jr-question?highlight=space+bu+jr+reed  and there is a gasket ... http://coxengines.ca/cox-.049-thermal-hopper-space-bug-jr.-crankcase-gasket-2.html  i have done a few of these because they are very enjoyable to run !! I think i am in love Laughing   Nonono !! Cost too much!! Small Cox Logo
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  KariFS on Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:26 pm

Thanks Eric! Very helpful info. As it happens I forgot to order those gaskets with my latest parts order DAMMIT!

Here's the latest acquisition that arrived with the aforementioned parts order:



Yup, that's the Black Lynx prize engine I Love This Forum!

Remember this little sad looking Tee Dee .010 from a while back?



Finally I had all the parts needed to clean it up. The needle and needle body had bad threads, the carb body was broken and the spinner was missing. Plus I didn't have the wrenches either. I received the package today and got to work almost immediately (well, after I had made the grocery run, made some meatballs and stuff for the family and walked the dog and and... Well, our boxing practice was cancelled tonight so...). Here are some of the parts:



As I took the engine apart, a lot of crud came out from inside. Surprisingly, nothing was stuck, so the disassembly was a very straightforward process.



Again, all the parts went into the ultrasonic. I sanded the retaining nut and the prop plate just a little to get rid of the worst wrench marks, then hit them with scotchbrite and finally with some chrome polish. I also polished the plastic rear mounting part with Dremel at low revs and some polishing compound. It is not perfect but will do for a used engine. Here is the final product with a brand new prop:



With all the necessary parts and postages the engine ended up costing me about the price of a pristine one, or maybe even a later model NIB unit, but what fun would that have been lol!

I really like this little engine, it has healthy compression, and just a little slack in the con rod. So it has run a few hours, and has several hours ahead with just a little adjustment.

EDIT: I just had to take a pic of my biggest and littlest Tee Dees together Very Happy




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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  KariFS on Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:05 am

It's been pretty quiet at this front lately. I have had a few wanted ads, and I also have followed up a few leads (non-Cox mostly), but nothing interesting has surfaced around here, for a reasonable price anyway. Or maybe I just have become more frugal Huh...

Anyway, today I was at the nearest hobby shop with my son. He was looking for some plastic models, as the shop had its annual sale campaign going on. All the plastic models were 20% or more off. The shop used to carry a lot of "real" model airplane stuff but nowadays there's only a few kits, some balsa and remains of miscellaneous old stock. They have moved more to craft stuff, kites and such. While my son was looking at the models I started talking with the owner, somehow the subject went to Cox engines, and I mentioned that I have a little collection of them. He then showed me the remains of his Cox inventory: 12 glowheads, and said, how about 50€ for the lot. Not dirt cheap but not bad either, so I grabbed them. The bags have Graupner labels on them, as they were the importer of Cox engines and spare parts. The parts prices were outrageous back then, as you can see from the original price tags Damn!



I also got some SIG-Bond so I can assemble my models indoors (wife gets a headache from the smell of epoxy) and some kite paper. The kite paper is kinda heavy, a bit shiny tissue-kind of stuff, I'll see if it is any good for built-up models. Can't really get real "Jap" tissue any more. I have an old Guillows Fairchild 24 that I want to patch up, so that will be the first object of experiments.
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  getback on Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:46 am

Kari the .010 TD came out looking GOOD !! For a polish job on the plastic thats not bad at all , Man those glows are /were Hi dollar at least you should not need any more for a while !! Very Happy Babe Bee .049 Hope you will share the Fairchild repair with us when ya get time Doh!
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  KariFS on Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:20 am

Thanks Eric. I bought the .010 from our late friend Joe C just a couple of months before the sad news. I like the way it turned out, not quite "as new" but shows some history.

Yeah, now I have more of those #325 heads than I'll probably ever need. I did offer the guy a fair price of 8€ a piece for 5 of them less than a year ago but he didn't take it. Now I ended up with all of them for a little over 4€ a piece Very Happy

16€ is an insane price (might be realistic if there were no repros available though). No wonder they kept gathering dust on the bottom shelf.
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  smooth_bill on Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:00 pm

Kari,

If I converted correctly, you paid $9.80, for a dozen 325 glow heads. I would call that an outstanding deal, even at our US prices!

Nice job restoring those Cox engines.

Cox International shows most of the Cox engine guides, but doesn't show an exploded view of the Jr engine, however the Space Bug guide shows the two piece reed assembly and perhaps a hint of it's arrangement.

https://coxengines.ca/engine-and-fuel-guides.html

Note that part number 307 is called the "reed back plate", so that may give a clue as to it's position. Good luck figuring it out!

Bill
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  KariFS on Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:20 am

Thanks Bill, now that would have been a deal! But the conversion is off a bit... Maybe the conversion factor was for our pre-euro currency, the Finnish Markka?

Anyway, I paid 50€ for the lot which is maybe $55-60 USD give or take a few bucks. So it is more like 5 bucks a piece. Not exactly a steal, but still a good price for me as I usually end up paying about 15 bucks for shipping plus 24% tax on top of my orders from Matt or Bernie.
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  smooth_bill on Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:17 pm

Kari,

Your correct, the web conversion I used mentioned "Markka" as the currency. Rolling Eyes

I'd love to have some of the earlier versions of Cox engines, but because of the vast number of Cox engine types out there, I decided to limit my meager collection to the last few .049 engine types that Cox offered - before being acquired by Estes. Of course, being a typical engine nut  I've managed to let a few other displacements and types slip into my Cox collection.

Still looking for an original Killer Bee .049 at reasonable price. I do have a NIB Estes version with a non-original Killer Bee crank from Bernie. The new crank is stored in the KB box, with a  note  to explain that the engine is an Estes clone.

Bill
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  KariFS on Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:18 pm

Here's the latest member of my Tee Dee family, an NIB .09:



It is the first .09 size Cox engine for me, and the last size missing from my collection. It even has the cardboard sleeve that protects the jewel case. The case does have a little crack on it and some marks left by the engine when it has bounced around in it.

With it I received a muffler for .09 size, a spare crankcase assy and a Babe Bee. The Babe Bee looks good, has good compression but it seems it has been used as a pusher (the prop is on backwards), and it has some axial play on the crank. I have a couple of good spare crankcases, so this is not a problem. Otherwise the Babe is like new.

So, these things do exist even in Finland, just have to watch the selling sites like a hawk Smile I got a tip on these from a fellow hobbyist that collects old Futaba stuff. I jumped on these right away, despite I promised (to myself) not to spend on more model engines in a while because I recently "acquired" a bit bigger American iron-cylinder engine with the bike attached Cool






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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  balogh on Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:50 pm

Nice catch Kari...the 09 is definitely an early one if with no flat for wrench milled on the top fin. I have older and later 09-s and they all feature tapered bore cylinder..something COX gave up with the later 049 and 051 Tee Dees which were more of a mass produced size than 09-s.

You may estimate its vintage year by the litho mark on the footer of the front page of its manual .
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  KariFS on Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:17 pm

Thanks Andras, actually I thought of you when I saw this engine Smile I thought "well I know at least one fellow who would tear it right out of the box and fly it lol!  Beer Cheers ". I actually migh just fly, or at least run this one too at some point, but as I have so much yet to learn about running glow engines and especially about flying I think I'll just keep it in the box for now.

The engine has a step-style cylinder like the Babe Bee. Good point about checking the litho date, it said 8/74 so this engine is "about exactly" 43 years old any day now Smile
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  balogh on Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:03 pm

Kari,

I must admit that if it was not for the 3 new and 1 used 09-s I have, I would also be reluctant to run a NIB 09.

The one  serving on my Cosmic Wind was already used when I bought it, but its condition is still perfect, compression as new, and I believe this is because of the tapered bore. An 051 Tee Dee with tapered bore I used on an RC plane has some 250+hours runtime on it, and it still starts up hand-flipped, and its somewhat impaired compression only becomes apparent when I fly the plane in a steep rise and the engine speed slightly drops. So you may expect an exceptional longevity with a tapered bore 09.

I am especially tempted to start up one of my new 09-s that came with 2 booster ports milled in the bypass ports by either the previous owner, or, by COX, as an experiment. Stock 09-s -as far as I learnt from my searches on the net - did not have booster ports. See the stock cylinder on the top, and the boosters in the one in the bottom



I am simply thrilled to learn what impact the boosters may have on the output of a TD 09, so my curiosity will soon prevail over my greed to have brand new/unused rarities in my COX inventory.. Very Happy
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  Kim on Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:01 am

Hey Kari,
Just stumbled across your photo essay of the Space Bug Jr. clean-up! It got by me somehow when you originally posted it. I saved the photos and text for future reference.
Thanks for making the effort to post it!
Kim
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  getback on Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:54 am

Nice Catch there Kari !@! I got one of the TD.09 series some time back , don't have the correct Hd. for it only Medallion one , i haven't ran it but have one lol! I got a Med..049 with a slider muffler exh. iam wanting to run and ck. out the running with that set up but have not got there yet , its next!
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  KariFS on Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:22 pm

Here is my first FOX engine, a 15RC from the early '60s I think. I had been watching it at a flea market site here in Finland, it was a bit expensive, so I made an offer and the seller took it. It arrived today Smile

Looks like it is in good condition, except one of the backplate screws has broken and the remains are stuck in the hole. I'll try to get it out but there is no hurry as I don't have a suitable replacement screw anyway. How can I get the piston off this thing? It is quite gunked and no doubt metal shavings will find their way inside when I start to mess with the broken screw.



The prop on it is a very heavy and wide-bladed 8x8 by FROG. Looks made for some old diesel rather than this engine.

There is also a .15 Medallion head in the picture. I have gained a sort of a "reputation" with my Cox hobby in the Model aviation community here and every now and then people offer me parts and engines to buy. The extra nice thing about this deal was that the guy wanted me to have it and did not want any payment for it. Nice gift!

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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  fredvon4 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:23 pm

Please PM me a good physical mailing address for you and notes on how mail to you works

Over time shipping to foreign countries I have learned that customs label need to avoid certain words Like "GLOW ENGINE" or GAS ENGINE while "Model airplane engine parts" is perfectly fine (they do not know they are all assembled...grin)
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  Ken Cook on Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:54 pm

The Fox you show is the most hated Fox in the hobby . This is the Fox that everyone loves to throw. The folks out west here have the Fox hurling contest with that engine. I personally enjoy them. I own the control line versions. The 8x8 as you mentioned is way too much prop. I wouldn't use a 8 inch prop on this engine although it's recommended to swing a 8x4. They don't like it. A 7x6 woodie is a good choice and let it turn up. In addition, a Master Airscrew works although slightly heavier than the wood props. Fox's in general like a load, not a overload. Personally unless it's a absolute must, I would refrain from removing the piston. Fox doesn't index the liner so putting it back together might not entail the cylinder exactly lining up as it was prior. If necessary, the liner needs to be removed first. This means making 100% certain the rod is moving back and forth on the wrist pin. Once the liner is out the rod is slid all the way to the rear and in a turning motion of the crank and the case upside down the piston will drop out of the case. Fox liked to use 3-48 screws, not exactly common anymore and I can't remember if this engine is using them. I believe it is though. They're somewhat problematic to find here as it's a screw that's not really being produced to sizeable numbers in the US.
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  KariFS on Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:20 am

fredvon4 wrote:Please PM me a good physical mailing address for you and notes on how mail to you works

Over time shipping to foreign countries I have learned that customs label need to avoid certain words Like "GLOW ENGINE" or GAS ENGINE   while "Model airplane engine parts" is perfectly fine (they do not know they are all assembled...grin)

Fred, I sent you my snail mail address via PM.

About the mail service and engines, I have sent and received engine stuff domestically without a problem. From abroad, I have mostly received stuff. I have advised the senders to put the things in a sealed plastic bag, and write "vintage model airplane parts", "collectible toy parts", "die cast models and parts" or such on the customs forms.

As it happens, the import customs duty to Finland is 0% for die cast and collectible/antique toys and parts, so that is what I like to declare them to be on the rare occasion I have to mess with the customs at all. The customs and VAT (24%) is collected only for packages that exceed certain value (30€ incl shipping) so the declared value also has an effect to the cost. If there is no stated value on the shipment, it usually comes through without the need of customs declaration, unless it is a very big or heavy package (Think Harley Ironhead cylinders or such).

I have sent and received small screws, O-rings and such with no problem in a small ziploc bag taped inside a folded piece of paper, mailed in an envelope just as regular mail. Lightweight and flat stuff is no problem.

Examples of the shipping costs, the postage for a small padded envelope is around $13.50. So far I have received at least two of these, one had bunch of things like rubber spinners, cylinder/piston sets, piston adjustment tool, gaskets, backplates etc, so it was quite heavy, and the other one had small plastic parts for an RTF plane (Thanks Kim!), so the cost seems to depend more on the package size and destination than weight. I also have received a couple of bigger boxes, one had 3 or 4 Bee type engines and parts, the other had a Tee Dee .010 and a couple of mufflers. Both of these shipments were $22.50.

So the shipping is possible and not very difficult but it may be time consuming if the sender has to fill customs declaration and/or wait in line to get forms, service etc. Cost is reasonable I think. 10 or 20 dollars may seem high, but on the other hand, if I drive to my nearest hobby shop (that does not carry this stuff anyway), I'll spend about 15€ on gas and parking. So it is all relative Smile  

Customs in my end are not difficult either, and if the declaration has to be made, it can be done on-line via the same web bank id that normal utility bills etc are paid.
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  KariFS on Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:26 am

Ken Cook wrote:            The Fox you show is the most hated Fox in the hobby . This is the Fox that everyone loves to throw. The folks out west here have the Fox hurling contest with that engine. I personally enjoy them. I own the control line versions. The 8x8 as you mentioned is way too much prop. I wouldn't use a 8 inch prop on this engine although it's recommended to swing a 8x4. They don't like it. A 7x6 woodie is a good choice and let it turn up. In addition, a Master Airscrew works although slightly heavier than the wood props. Fox's in general like a load, not a overload. Personally unless it's a absolute must,  I would refrain from removing the piston. Fox doesn't index the liner so putting it back together might not entail the cylinder exactly lining up as it was prior. If necessary, the liner needs to be removed first. This means making 100% certain the rod is moving back and forth on the wrist pin. Once the liner is out the rod is slid all the way to the rear and in a turning motion of the crank and the case upside down the piston will drop out of the case. Fox liked to use 3-48 screws, not exactly common anymore and I can't remember if this engine is using them. I believe it is though. They're somewhat problematic to find here as it's a screw that's not really being produced to sizeable numbers in the US.

Thanks Ken.

A hurling contest... wow lol!

Well, on the other hand, Cox engines are considered to be just toys by many, so I suppose this poor old Fox is in good company. I looked inside, and it just may be that the wrist pin and small end of the rod are stuck together, possibly because of a lubrication failure DAMMIT! Or maybe it is just stuck because of castor residues, one of these days I'll give it a hot bath and see what happens.

A guy I know of may have a pin and a rod, not sure if they are just for this model of "15" or something else. I guess, if the pin and rod are still stuck after the bath, I'll just get the parts and if they are the correct ones, then just try to get it apart without causing too much damage to the piston, liner, crank etc. Could be of course that the piston is ruined too, if the pin has turned in the piston holes for a long time.

Or maybe I'll just clean it up and keep it as a showpiece, or maybe it'll become the "hurlee" for the next family BBQ party lol!

Anyway, functional or not, it is an interesting piece of engineering, with the combined throttle and exhaust adjustment.
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

Post  Ken Cook on Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:26 pm

Certainly don't make it a hurler. These are good little engines for period planes. The liner is made of the same material Cox engines are made from. They like castor but not too much castor.I wouldn't doubt the rod is frozen on the wrist pin. Take the back plate off, get a allen key and sneak it behind the rod to pry off the crank. Heat the rod and wrist pin and put some oil letting it run onto the wrist pin. It's going to take a bit of work to free it and make is slide easily. That's important because if you don't, the wrist pin will egg out the hole in the piston. Enjoy that one, they can be fun to run as well.
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Re: Recent engine acquisitions

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