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Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

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Wanted Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  pegin964 on Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:37 am

Hi,

Looking over new 2018. speed contest i decide to join and build one speed model .
Well, last COX i have started and flown in past century, early 1990's , since then, no any COX in my fleet.

Bought at EBAY COXENGINES store one 049 Cox PT-19 Vintage engine and some props, glow plugs and other stuff i need for this build.

While waiting for parcel traveling from Canada to Serbia , acquired from a friend second handed Babe Bee, for a spare parts and today i do quick inspection and find that this engine could be probably repaired and flown again.
Here are some pics, hoping someone could recognize and determine exact Babe Bee type , and give me some advice how to fix broken backplate "ears" , which reed valve to install (bought or DIY one) and how to replace missing mesh/greed at backplate air duct as well the missing prop washer.
Pics as follows,

Box
Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help Et3IcZ1

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help TxpU16k

Engine,

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help ZdAEari

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help KDxtKrc

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help B9aKL6I

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help WLQWOyn

Dismantled engine,

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help JqHryvN

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help CUSfAbG

Cylinder,

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help NJiReoS

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help 9xL8mas

Glow plug test,

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help T334lXU

Instruction sheet,

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help TABZq16

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help Lb5ku12

Two props come with engine, Gray Thimble Drome 5x3 and APC 4,75x4,75 (will be good for speed i suppose )

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help Tkfw3rs

So, thanx for any comment and advice, hope this engine, repaired and refurbished will power small speed CL for 2018 contest.

RGDS
Pegin
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  KariFS on Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:10 pm

Pegin,
The backplate is made of a zinc-based light alloy called zamak. It is nearly impossible to solder as its melting point is close to most soldering materials.

If you want to run the engine with the fuel tank, you need a new backplate. Unfortunately new metal backplates are no longer available, but you can get a new plastic one that is a direct bolt-on and also accepts the same needle valve. An alternative would be to purchase a so called "horseshoe backplate assembly" and run the engine with an external tank.

Metal reed valves are no longer available either, except if you happen to find old stock service kits. As far as I know, the currently available mylar reeds work just as well. It is best to get a complete service kit that comes with all the gaskets.

All these parts are available from Bernie at Cox International or Matt at EX Model Engines, both fellows are very helpful.

Remember to order a propeller screw and washer too, or maybe even a spinner for good looks Smile And a glowhead or two.

By the way, that Babe Bee is exactly like my first Cox engine that I bought new when I was 12 in 1983 Smile
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  EXModelEngines on Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:43 pm

I would second the thoughts from Kari. We have the plastic backplates in the event you wanted to go that route. I think we also have a few of the metal ones left, although they are used.

A budget fix for the mounting lugs is to make a small mounting lug with sheet metal. Some folks have done this successfully in the past by drilling a small hole the size of the rear tank screw and compressing in the shape to fit the backplate screw hole. You can then get the form correct and use a bit of rtv sealant in the tank screw hole location. Silver solder the sheet metal tab to the back side of the backplate and you are left with a small piece of sheet metal sticking out where the old lug used to be. You can then drill a hole and trim thr sheet metal. Not the prettiest option, but functional.

Best Regards, Matt
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  NEW222 on Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:14 pm

As well, I have in the past, repaired my cast backplate with JB Weld. It may not be pretty, but it works. I just roughed up the metal, put the engine backplate on a piece of wax paper, applied the JB Weld, then allowed to dry. When dry, I shaped it and drilled my holes. This is a last resort as I did not have a spare backplate myself.
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  Oldenginerod on Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:09 pm

If Matt has good second hand metal ones available, I'd be going that way. Repairing can be a lot of work with marginal results.
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  pegin964 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:28 am

Thanx for comments and suggestions, some good advices there.
Having one brand new PD19 COX on transit , with lot of spare parts ordered , will probably do some repair& restore on this Babe Bee, making reed valve from floppy disk foil and reinforce backplate with thin duraluminum plate, using UHU Plus epoxy and some thin screws .
Prop wash screw will try to locate at spare box, just to test this engine.
Ordering spare parts , for us in Europe, is not a question of price, its OK, but postage rates kills all the interest to order single part, not mentioning long transit time and additional customs procedures.
So, any work on this engine , will post here.
RGDS
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  getback on Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:32 am

Here are some Very helpful tricks from the Master ... https://coxengines.ca/files/MRP.pdf Very Happy Welcome to the Race ! This Site Rocks!
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  pegin964 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:05 pm

Thanx, very helpful reading... will be of use, certainly.
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  pegin964 on Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:31 am

Ok, with nice suggestions from CEF members , and after looking at my spare parts box and material stock, i decided to try to refurbish this damaged Babe Bee and try to save it with some DIY  machining.

First, backplate, decide to reinforce it with 1,5mm Duraluminum plate, glue it with UHU Plus epoxy glue and secure with two M3 flat head screws.

Action started this morning, having free 2 days as today  is here in Serbia, Constitution day, so, some more time for modelling.

First, roughly shaped duraluminum plate, do some drilling for engine screws and two securing screws,

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help 4lEA3R2

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help Jqt9ysM

Then made two M3 threads in ZAMAK backplate,

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help LLUpM7B

Check the screws fit,

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help TDySWje

And provisionally fit the backplate, for further, precise shaping,

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help 2la5n4y

Then grinded with electric grinder and later use files and sandpaper to complete this plate.

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help GZVacHN.

More to follow,


Last edited by pegin964 on Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  pegin964 on Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:34 am

So, duralumin backplate reinforcing is ready for assembly, all the surfaces sanded and degreased, UHU PLus epoxy glue (300 kg/cm2) is strong and  should make strong bond , after "baking" at 80 deg C for a hour. There is also small patch of bronze mesh , to glue it between plates, over the reed air intake. Some duraluminum dust is collected from grinding process, to mix it with UHU plus and use as filler for two broken screw lugs.

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help VorpsIp

Ready for glue and assembly,

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help YokRPNO

And set tight  with two M3 flathead screws.

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help FSHO9Lt,

Then left for an hour at 80 deg C hot plate, for epoxy curring.

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help 9kXJtKT

Curred, set hard...

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help LzDttEB

Sanded and polished, screw holes re-drilled , and everything cleaned.

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help NN0Fjg1


Last edited by pegin964 on Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  pegin964 on Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:45 am

Ready for re-assembly, first make fuel feed tube, 2mm aluminium tube and silicone tubing,

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help 9AVqacZ

And Tank- reed valve seal made from silicone tubing,

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help CMv0rQK

Next, reed valve, made from floppy disk mylar foil,

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help WUvAoyi

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help XNyx6l5

And instal it , hope i properly orientate the spring.

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help WiYcr8M

Checked all the seals and suction tubing, cleaned  tank inside and ready to assembly,

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help 7ix5Q3y

Final set of repaired babe bee photos, 5-40 prop screw find at spare box parts, not original, but will serve to test the engine,  till new ordered parts come.

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help Il8MMEP

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help A8xG1ZI

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help FUG5KdB

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help OLttk7h

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help To2QgkK

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help SwcyI2W

Just waiting for some fuel ( here is available only car racing Nitro fuel with synthetic oil, no castor at all ) or will mix my own fuel for testing.

Babe Be repair-checked,
Ready for speed contest build.
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  fit90 on Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:01 pm

Beautiful work! I am looking forward to hearing that it runs well!
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  EXModelEngines on Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:34 pm

Excellent!
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  CmdrDavel on Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:05 am

Just looking at the photo of the 2 propellers..the upper one is meant for use with electric motors and really shouldn't be used with a 2 stroke...and I'd check the other one over very carefully. With the high rpm of Cox engines, the last thing that you want is to shed a blade.
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  pegin964 on Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:03 am

CmdrDavel wrote:Just looking at the photo of the 2 propellers..the upper one is meant for use with electric motors and really shouldn't be used with a 2 stroke...and I'd check the other one over very carefully.  With the high rpm of Cox engines, the last thing that you want is to shed a blade.

Good spot, thanx, wasn't aware about that, Babe Bee come with two props, Thimble drome Gray is certainly the COX one , but not checked APC, its really sold as 4,75x4,75E , so, will not be used on COX , safety first.

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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  CmdrDavel on Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:49 am

You're welcome - the 'E' on the prop tells us that it is for electric motors, but also compare the thickness of the hub to the correct prop. Electric props don't have to put up with the thumping of a 2 stroke, and consequently, can be much thinner. I have had a Cox blade thrown from a 3 blade prop - and am very glad that I stuck to my rule of never getting in line with the prop disc! Best of luck with your restoration, hope it runs well.
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  rsv1cox on Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:36 am

Your restored engine looks great. Marvelous attention to detail.

Congratulations

Bob
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  getback on Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:33 am

Nice repair on the BB backplate pegin964 ! After repair what did the weight come to ? I see you didnt do a weight difference between before and after , Bee looking forward to seeing your build and performance at the Race Small Cox Logo
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  pegin964 on Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:20 am

getback wrote: After repair what did the weight come to ?
62 grams without prop.
Dry weight of BB should be 60 grams, according to some listings i found at internet.
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  getback on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:18 pm

Well that's not as much as i would have thought , i just weighed an older bee with the narrow neck and only the prop sc/washer and it was 51gr. but there is a difft. in the engine with thicker neck and brass drive plate , so not bad !! Small Cox Logo Babe Bee .049 Small Cox Logo
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  pegin964 on Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:31 am

Today arrived small parcel from Coxengines (thanx for fast service), with PT-19 Product engine...

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help Viuf9oF

Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help LQlRcw5

Will power balsa re-incarnation of Super Stunter , more details in separate topic.
RGDS



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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  getback on Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:15 pm

NICE!! is this the SS ..Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help 427810
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  KariFS on Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:23 am

Nice work with the backplate repair, and good luck with the new engine Thumbs Up
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Wanted Re: Old Babe Bee acquisition -need some help

Post  pegin964 on Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:35 pm

Just today i find some time to do test run of this repaired Babe Bee.
It works.
Need to buy some fresh fuel, and try with smaller prop, but , Babe Bee is alive, again.

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Post  pegin964 on Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:49 pm

Also tested Cox Sure Start, mounted on small balsa profile "Kraguj" ( ex electric CL).

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