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Why the cast aluminum body on new engines?
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Why the cast aluminum body on new engines?
I was just making up a list of parts to order and I saw that some of the new cox engines have a cast aluminum body. They say something like "superior heat dissipation" ... is that true? Or is this just a cheaper way to build a motor?
Just curiosity
Thanks ..... Mike
Just curiosity
Thanks ..... Mike
xtal_01- Bronze Member
- Posts : 46
Join date : 2018-02-26
Age : 62
Location : Jericho, Vermont
Why the cast aluminum body on new engines?
It was a relatively brief (time span and numbers produced) retro effort at pressure casting a crankcase with product cost cutting as primary aim. It failed in that regard due to excessive production rejects. I don't know anything about cooling theories related to the matter.
ticomareado- Account Under Review
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Location : NC
Re: Why the cast aluminum body on new engines?
...from what i know/heard, it was a cost move as the machinery to turn the extruded stock was sold off or no longer feasible, there were more than normal 'off center' cast cases, but most were fine.
Mudd?
Mudd?
Re: Why the cast aluminum body on new engines?
Typical of die-cast, I expect that these cases were probably a little more fragile than the extruded version, but there's no reason to assume that quality and durability isn't as good as any of the numerous other 1/2A engines produced this way. I also imagine that the cast case would be a little lighter as well. As for improved heat dissipation, this could well be the case, with the cast-in strengthening gussets acting as cooling fins. I'm not sure how necessary this would be and doubt that it was their original intention when designing them.
Oldenginerod- Top Poster
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Re: Why the cast aluminum body on new engines?
To me the casted ones wear out a faster, and they could really benefit from a bronze bushing (a retrofit that has been used). During the break-in of the engine there is a lot of black goo coming from the crankcase front, and this only stops once the crank is really sloppy in the bore.
I don't think that they have any advantages for the end user...
I don't think that they have any advantages for the end user...
Surfer_kris- Diamond Member
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Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden
Re: Why the cast aluminum body on new engines?
I read a story that the cast case was an attempt to save costs. But it was soon found out that the extruded version was both easier and cheaper to manufacture after all. The RC Bee was the only ”stand alone” engine to use the cast case, it was a short-lived model too, quickly replaced by the Dragonfly.
There is a lot of cast cases out there, so there were probably big plans for it. Were they used in product engines, or are they all just surplus?
There is a lot of cast cases out there, so there were probably big plans for it. Were they used in product engines, or are they all just surplus?
KariFS- Diamond Member
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Age : 52
Re: Why the cast aluminum body on new engines?
Larry Renger came to Philadelphia and he got together on a Thursday evening to have dinner with a bunch of our club members. I had this same discussion with him as to why the die cast cases. His response was , I thought they threw all the s#^t out. He certainly wasn't a fan of them.
Ken Cook- Top Poster
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Re: Why the cast aluminum body on new engines?
I've been leary of those cast-cased .049s for years, having read about various problems with accelerated wear as already mentioned. Oddly enough, my sizeable Cox collection doesn't include any of those, so I have no experience with them. I've been tempted to try one of those Pink Panther versions from Cox Int but never caved in because....it's pink. . Maybe I should try it with a HD crank and a drilled out backplate. Call it a Killer Panther, Pink Death, Sissy Bee, or Nitro Tuscadero. Yeah, that's the ticket!
Sorry, I'll cut back on the caffeine now.
Sorry, I'll cut back on the caffeine now.
Tee Bee- Platinum Member
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KariFS- Diamond Member
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" Call it a Killer Panther, Pink Death, Sissy Bee, or Nitro Tuscadero. Yeah, that's the ticket!"
Call it a "Pussy Hat Bee". We need more wymin in the hobby.
ticomareado- Account Under Review
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" Call it a Killer Panther, Pink Death, Sissy Bee, or Nitro Tuscadero. Yeah, that's the ticket!"
Put a bronze bushing in it and call it a "Zizz Wheel Bee".
ticomareado- Account Under Review
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rsv1cox- Top Poster
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Re: Why the cast aluminum body on new engines?
I would believe that yes, they are talking about that St. Patty's day green thing in the center.
NEW222- Top Poster
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Re: Why the cast aluminum body on new engines?
Bob, regarding the crankshaft fit on the green thing, it looks like it’s painted, is it painted inside too? That would ruin the fit.
KariFS- Diamond Member
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"Are we talking about the St. Patty's day green thing in the center, or is that a different animal?
What's next? A Chinese diesel tractor engine for your MG?
ticomareado- Account Under Review
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Re: Why the cast aluminum body on new engines?
ticomareado wrote:What's next? A Chinese diesel tractor engine for your MG?
- Actually the early MG engines were tractor based.
Kari, there is some trash in the shaft end that could be removed. I think most Babe Bee parts would flesh it out.
Bob
rsv1cox- Top Poster
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Re: Why the cast aluminum body on new engines?
Casting (as in traditional "sand-casting") small engine crankcases without sleeves/bushings installed, won't yield a very long service-life. Cox did well with their extruded/billet aluminum crankcases and hard-anodizing process. The fact that we're still running Cox model-engines some 50 years later.. is a testament to superior engineering/design.
So is there still a market for 049 engines?
So I guess the question I ask is there still a market for 049 e engines?
In my day (late 60's early 70's), I could go to a hobby shop or a quality department store ( in Buffalo, Two Guys comes to mind) and they would have a selection of Cox and Testors u-control airplanes and cars.
I don't even know where I would find a hobby shop around here now ... the places that call themselves hobby shops are really craft shops and might have a few plastic models if you are lucky.
You guys said there were a large number of these engines made .... would there be anywhere near that market today?
I ask because it seems strange to go through all the work of designing a casting in hopes of saving a bit of money. I would think the making of the molds would be very expensive.
If I were given the project and had productions numbers of maybe 100,000 I would just program a CNC machining center to spit them out. No special tooling and you could use stock material.
I might be wrong but I would think the body would be one of the cheapest parts. The piston / cylinder gets expensive just because of the tight tolerances.
Mike
In my day (late 60's early 70's), I could go to a hobby shop or a quality department store ( in Buffalo, Two Guys comes to mind) and they would have a selection of Cox and Testors u-control airplanes and cars.
I don't even know where I would find a hobby shop around here now ... the places that call themselves hobby shops are really craft shops and might have a few plastic models if you are lucky.
You guys said there were a large number of these engines made .... would there be anywhere near that market today?
I ask because it seems strange to go through all the work of designing a casting in hopes of saving a bit of money. I would think the making of the molds would be very expensive.
If I were given the project and had productions numbers of maybe 100,000 I would just program a CNC machining center to spit them out. No special tooling and you could use stock material.
I might be wrong but I would think the body would be one of the cheapest parts. The piston / cylinder gets expensive just because of the tight tolerances.
Mike
xtal_01- Bronze Member
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Forgot to ask .. picture of cox factory?
I forgot to ask ... does anyone have pictures of the cox factory? It would be interesting to see what equipment was used in the day to produce these engines.
Mike
Mike
xtal_01- Bronze Member
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Cox factory
You couldn't do this in Kalifornicado today.
ticomareado- Account Under Review
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Re: Why the cast aluminum body on new engines?
Thanks for sharing those pictures roddie.
Lot's of expensive, heavy duty, precision equipment required to produce such a tiny engine. I would love to see the assembly line putting them together. Probably lots of ladies with small steady fingers.
Lot's of expensive, heavy duty, precision equipment required to produce such a tiny engine. I would love to see the assembly line putting them together. Probably lots of ladies with small steady fingers.
rsv1cox- Top Poster
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Re: Why the cast aluminum body on new engines?
xtal_01 wrote:I forgot to ask ... does anyone have pictures of the cox factory? It would be interesting to see what equipment was used in the day to produce these engines.
Mike
This is what that once busy gem factory looks today at 1505 East Warner Ave. in Santa Ana....converted to a County of Orange, Social Services Agency...when I visited there some 4 years ago, the receptionist still remembered there had been a "toy factory" there before.
balogh- Top Poster
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Cox "Toy Factory" to Orange County, Califas DSS building
So many nuggets of irony to chew on with that, so few teeth.
ticomareado- Account Under Review
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Re: Why the cast aluminum body on new engines?
I did not mean irony here...just a fake nostalgia of someone who could not have even enjoyed the heyday of COX from behind the former Iron Curtain...
balogh- Top Poster
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