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Cox Engine of The Month
August-2019
fredvon4's

"Tee Dee .049"



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Post  Davenz13 on Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:33 pm

Miserable day outside and too cold in the workshop so I grabbed a few more engines to post.

Recently a Cyclon AC-29 was mentioned in a post and I thought at the time I’ve got a new one of those somewhere.
I went looking for it today and eventually found it in one of the cupboards.
That pipe is a work of art by itself.

Show and Tell - Page 5 Cyclon12

Engine number 55, Huh, the year I was born

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Merco 61 Mklll
I only have four engines in this size range and don’t intend to get any more as there is just too many of them lol

The box looks a bit tatty but inside is a never mounted or run engine with all paperwork.
I bought this because it wasn’t very expensive and I was curious about the twin plug setup.

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Norvel AX-40 NIB

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First time it’s been out of the box. Never noticed the bits in the bottom before. I wonder what’s in the blue foam.

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Ah so that’s what was in there.

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Post  1/2A Nut on Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:54 am

Nice Cyclon AC-29!!!
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Post  Marleysky on Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:52 am

1/2A Nut wrote:Nice Cyclon AC-29!!!

Oh, I thought you said Cylon.

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lol!
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Post  getback on Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:22 am

That Cyclon AC-29 ( first one ) Does have a nice pipe !! Eyebrows
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Post  Davenz13 on Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:21 am

Webra Speed .40 R/C NIB but missing paperwork

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Here's two used but not abused (i think) engines.

Nelson .40 Quickie 500

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Nelson .40 F1

The engine came with mini-pipe, a new engine mount and a damaged crankcase for display only. Has had internal issues.

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Post  Ken Cook on Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:26 pm

The Webra engines are awesome. I have a few myself. Very good quality, they start very easily as well. I have a older .40, several .32's which are sweet runners and the Speed .12.
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Post  Davenz13 on Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:37 pm

I purchased this engine back in February 2018 for US$149.99 (the seller had 20 of them for sale on eBay) which, for a good-looking Italian made 10cc engine, seemed a very good price to me, especially after reading the write-up Clarence Lee gave it on Sceptre Flight Model engine tests. Clarence, along with others, strongly suspected that this engine and the .40 were made by Picco but apart from being made in Italy, nobody was admitting it at the time. He also stated that other engines in the Skyward range including a 25, 28 and 46 were being made in Taiwan and by other unspecified engine manufacturers.
Clarence gave the 60 a very good report and the engine also has got good feedback on sites such as RC Groups and RC Universe.
It was later confirmed that the 40 and the 60 engines were indeed made by Picco for the Skyward Research and Development Laboratory in Montreal Canada.

The Skyward .60 FSR pipe version.

Show and Tell - Page 5 Skywar10
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Post  Davenz13 on Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:40 pm

There’s been some heavy snowfalls (down to sea level) heavy rain, tornados etc down here of late. Storm hit Auckland yesterday and last night, boats upturned, cars etc yada yada.
Upshot of all that is can’t do much outside except get blown away. Speaking of that, there was a guy on the news yesterday. The roof got blown off his house so he grabbed his TV as it looked like it was going to fall. Outside, his wife was blown into the garage wall and broke her collar bone. I’m thinking, mate, you’re going to pay for that choice.
Anyway, to fill the days I went through some more engines.
I have listed the dates for the engines as when I think they were first introduced as I don’t know how long each engine was produced nor any way of dating the engines. I’m no expert on model engines (or anything for that matter) so where I’ve made a mistake let me know. Information is of no use if it’s incorrect.

K&B 8380 1977
.21 3.5cc with header and tuned muffler.
7 rib front case appears to have been introduced in 1977
No box or paperwork.
Appears to have had a fair bit of use but overall seems in good condition.
The 8380 was later superseded by model 8900.

Show and Tell - Page 5 Kb_21_12

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K&B 8500 1975
.29 4.9cc eng B0000511
No idea when C F Lee modified this engine but 7 rib case appears to have been introduced 1977
C F Lee stamped but missing his instruction sheet.
Since leaving CF Lee manufacturing, I don’t think this engine has ever been out of the plastic bag until I took it out for these photos.

Show and Tell - Page 5 Kb_85012

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K & B 8600 1977
.35 5.8cc eng C0000376
7 rib front case
Some paperwork missing
Careful examination of each centre rib, on the sides of the crankcase at the front, indicates what I think is crash damage.
The scuffing on the prop driver looks like it as well. The clincher is that the bearings are very very rough when turning the crank shaft gently back and forth.
I can’t remember now if the seller advertised it with those faults or not. Maybe I got tucked on this one.
But anyway, I’ll pull it apart and see what the damage is and if it’s only a bearing issue, I’ll be happy.  

Show and Tell - Page 5 K__b_812

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K & B 8010 1973
Torpedo .40F 6.5cc  Series 71

Going by the scuff marks on the mounting beams it looks like it may have been mounted by some sort of clamp, possibly wooden blocks, but doesn’t appear to have ever been run.

Show and Tell - Page 5 K__b_819

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K & B 8065 1973
.40S 6.5cc Pylon eng 002795
Never run but no box or paperwork

Show and Tell - Page 5 K__b_824

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K & B 9001 1975
SRII .40 6.5cc eng 00270
12 rib front case.
Appears to have never been run or mounted.
Has the pipe but missing some paperwork.
Somewhere there is someone who has no model engines but an amazing collection of model engine instruction sheets and related papers and decals.

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K & B 9120 1979
C F Lee custom F1 6.5cc eng I 0922 001
According to Tim Dannels book, “American Model Engine Encyclopedia” these engines and this style of crankcase (12 ribs on front case) first came out in August 1975. I put this one as 1979 because that’s when it became a C F Lee Custom engine and was delivered to the customer.
I have listed it as a F1 engine because that’s how a Clarence has written it on the invoice.
This engine not only has all the paperwork (very rare to find them like that) but also has the original customer invoice plus correspondence between Clarence and myself concerning this engine.
New condition, never run or mounted.

Show and Tell - Page 5 K__b_917

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K & B 6535 1975
.61 (10cc) R/C with Pumper and Muffler: Series 75
A new in the box engine with all the paperwork, everything, well almost everything. The plastic bag that had the mounting screws in it has come apart and one of the four screws is missing.
I wonder if there is a warranty on that.

Show and Tell - Page 5 K__b_612

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Phew, that's all folks,

for the moment.
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Post  dckrsn on Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:51 pm

Delete


Last edited by dckrsn on Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:55 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post  Ken Cook on Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:52 pm

I have a new in the box K&B.21. The recommended fuel after initial break in  was 70% nitro.  My K&B .61 is currently flying my Giant Ringmaster. My K&B 6.5 has a custom AAC cylinder which I haven't run yet. I'm looking forward to the results. The .61 is a real fine engine. They're actually inexpensive and very easy to use. All parts are currently available for it and it's still produced by Mecoa.
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Post  Davenz13 on Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:35 pm

That's good to know Ken, though to be honest I doubt I'll do anything with mine other than look at it.
I've never used K&B engines, back in the late seventies I used OS, but, aside from Cox I have more K&B engines (10) than any other, closely followed by MVVS. I have heard good and bad things about MVVS engines but can't comment myself as I have no experience with them either.
Will post them soon.

I stripped that K&B 35 engine, the one I mentioned with the crunchy bearings and I can't see any reason for it. The engine is like new inside. Anyway I'll track down some new bearings and reassemble it.

Some time later

Applied a little heat and got the bearings out. With close inspection (jewelers eyeglass) quite bad corrosion and pitting could be seen on the inner bearing races, particularly the front bearing. I guess sitting all those years moisture could have got in there. Anyway other than the bearings, the engine looks in excellent order.
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Post  aspeed on Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:57 am

Some of the old K&B engines used a plastic(Phenolic?) cage in their bearings.  They would lock up or be rough even when just sitting for a month.  A squirt of fuel would free them up in nearly all cases. A squirt of fuel often frees up regular bearings too, and flushes out the dirt and dried up castor.  Many guys uneccesarily use the crock pot antifreeze when they are just a bit rough.  I have rarely needed to replace bearings.  Some were just very loose, and one had the cage fall off.  Maybe 4 out of hundreds. Rust is bad for sure though if it really is that and not castor chunks.
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Post  getback on Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:55 am

thats Cool Daven , i didn't know K&B made F1 engines , they appear to be well made and lookie Good ! The info on Clarence Lee is informative with his custom tuning . Thanks for taking the time to show us ur engine collection , i hope your weather clears up for your country Very Happy
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Post  Ken Cook on Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:57 pm

I have the rear exhaust pylon .40 MVVS, the other is the Front intake side exhaust quickie.40. The pylon engine has been run but the side exhaust is NIB. I also have the MVVS 3.5 which impressed me the second I started it. It's a neat engine. The other MVVS I have is the side exhaust 2.5. Where I found them to be problematic is when you don't have the proper instructions to know what nitro to use. The .40's are setup for no nitro. The color of the heads generally dictate what versions were made and one can look it up online as to what fuel to run.
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Post  Davenz13 on Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:38 am

More good info thanks Ken. I'll be posting the MVVS engines soon so you will be able to tell me a lot more about them. I have two .15's, six .40's and a .45 so it's takes me a while to get through them.
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Post  aspeed on Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:14 pm

I have never seen a newer front intake K&B .29.  Here is my RR, right from Bill. Couple MVVSs, a 2.5 and 3.5.  The 2.5 is way slower than even the LA .15.  The 3.5 (.21) is a strong runner.Show and Tell - Page 5 Tall_s10
Show and Tell - Page 5 Tall_s10
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Post  aspeed on Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:22 pm

Smore pics, Picco too. Its is not really slow, but average compared to stuff like even AX .46s
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.
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Post  Davenz13 on Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:31 am

Been recovering from a poison hand for the last week. Finally gone down enough to be able to type with both hands.

Here's the MVVS engines.
A brief history of MVVS

The Modelling Research and Development Company (MVVS) was established on 15th October 1953 on the basis of a Government ruling and achieved International success almost immediately in 1954 and went on to win many World Championships in the following years.
In 1971 the state began to run short of money and MVVS was incorporated into the state concern Modela in Prague and its name changed to the Modelling Production and Development Centre.
   The firm was privatised in 1991, becoming a limited liability company. At first it achieved some success on the German market and in the USA with new export opportunities. Around half of its production was taken by domestic customers.
The company's product range expanded in the nineteen nineties to include 4.2 (combat), 4.6, 7.5, 8.0, 12.7 and 15 cc engines, developed by modifications to existing models, and completely new 20 and 25 cc engines, which were, however, produced for only a short time.
A 23.6 cc twin cylinder and the company's first petrol engines (26 and 35 cc) proved more successful.
Negligible investment in technology in the nineties was reflected in a decline in quality and commercial stagnation, and the company was sold in 2001.

The above text was taken from the MVVS website
.
The following text is from my research

During this period, it would appear that factors of poor marketing after a change of US distributor, and a poor exchange rate to the US dollar making the MVVS range very expensive by comparison also contributed to the decline of sales.
Sometime in the early 2000’s, possibly at the time the company was sold, MVVS ceased production of the glow range of engines and a rumour circulated that the manufacturing rights, patterns and dies had been sold to another company.
Also, around the same time engines said to be MVVS clones appeared, made in Argentina and marketed as Snorer engines. I kid you not.
There is a clip on you-tube of a snorer engine being run.
Here’s a snorer

Show and Tell - Page 5 Snorer10

While MVVS is still functioning (at least until 2017 according to posts on their website) I haven’t been able find much more about Snorer engines or the company that made them.

MVVS engines are nowhere near as complicated by model designation as the OPS range.
A GRRT model is a Glow ignition, Rear intake, Rear exhaust, Timed for tuned pipe
GRR as above but not for pipe
GFS/R is Glow ignition, Front intake, Side or Rear exhaust.
If the designation starts with a D it’s a diesel.
In some models just two letters were used

like this MVVS 2.5cc GR
#3026
Stamped 751
First Manufactured: ?
This engine manufactured in 1979 and sold 6th February 1981
Sourced from Europe, can’t remember exactly where.

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_212

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MVVS 2.5cc GF
# ?
Stamped K under one side mount and 35 under the other and has a black plastic back plate
First Manufactured: ?
Sourced from UK.
The prop washer and nut show graunch marks but otherwise the engine appears in good condition. With those replaced, it will make a nice display engine.

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_219

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_220

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Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_222


MVVS   .40 (6.5cc) GFS/R R/C
#3066
Stamped Q under one side mount and 670 under the other
First Manufactured: ?
Sourced from USA.
Needs a good clean and detail

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_310

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_312

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_311

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_313

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MVVS 6.5cc Quickie
#3068
Stamped G under one side mount and 121 under the other
First Manufactured: ?
Sourced from UK

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_317

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Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_315

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_318

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Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_323

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_322

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_321


Pylon engines
Although model pylon racing had been around for some time, according to an article on a model website in Czechoslovakia, F3D pylon racing as an official competition didn’t start in Czechoslovakia until 1975. Here’s a short passage from that article dated 2010. Google translation is a bit broken English but you get the idea.

Something about the history of the Great Melnik Award
History of organizing races around  The pylons go back to the year.  1975. When about a dozen pilots competed in the national RC-P category (models with engines up to 2.5 cm3).  The new 6.5 cc MVVS engines that have just appeared on the market have been an impulse to try the FAI F3D international category even though the model audience was predominantly convinced that this category does not have a chance to succeed in our conditions.


And another short passage…

In 1977 MVVS staff modified the 6.5 GF engine to a pylon version of 6.5 GRRT.  

Ah, enter the 6.5 GRRT mk1
The titles of mk1, 2 or 3 are ones I put on these engines for reference purposes.  

MVVS 6.5 GRRT mk1 Pylon
#3065
New engine. Stamped K under one side mount and 103 under the other
First Manufactured: 1977 to ?
Sourced Czechoslovakia

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_611

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_612

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_610

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_613


MVVS 6.5 GRRT mk2 Pylon
#3065
New engine. Stamped N under one side mount and 45 under the other
First Manufactured: early to mid 80’s?
Superseded mk1 but kept the same catalogue number.
New, unused but still has lost its box, paperwork, prop nut and washer and sustained a dent in the rear intake.
At least it’s still got the needle valve, the rest won’t be hard to put right.

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_616

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_615

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_614

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MVVS 6.5 GRRT mk3 Special Pylon
#3070
Sourced Germany
First Manufactured: Late 80’s?

I spent several years searching for one of these and I never even came across a wrecked one but, persistence paid off and I eventually located a used but very clean looking one for sale in Germany.
Not the right box but happy to have it all the same. Seller included a custom engine stand and a copy of the same Czech article on pylon racing.
This one is stamped 3v under one mount and 24 under the other.

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_618

I quickly purchased it and had it shipped to the UK where it would be forwarded on to New Zealand. Three weeks later while still google searching and harassing contacts in Europe I found another one, also in Germany but new in the box.
Dilemma! I’ve already got one but a new one, these things are rare.
After thinking long and hard for at least half a nano second I bought it. Quick phone call to contact in the UK (eldest daughter’s brother in law) to hold the first one, there’s more coming.
When I finally got it, I thought it wasn’t in the right box but has the paperwork. The more I searched the more MVVS engines I found for sale in that same white box especially racing type engines. Maybe it is the right box.

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_619

The needle is still sealed in its plastic bag.

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_623

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Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_622

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_624

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Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_629

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_627

This one is stamped Y under one mount and 1 under the other. Now that is an interesting number.

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_628


MVVS 7.5cc GRR
#3075A
This one is stamped Y under one mount and 3 under the other. Another very low number
First Manufactured: 90’s
New in box plus new in box correct MVVS tuned silencer
Sourced USA

I didn’t even know this model existed until I picked it up on an eBay search. I often type in pylon engine or similar to see what comes back. It was for sale with silencer by a US dealer clearing old stock.

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_326

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_325

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_327

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_330

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_328

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_329

Here’s a picture of the .40 and the .45 side by side. .45 is on the right.

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_331

Apart from the gap between the head and the larger hole in the fuel nozzle they look identical.
I haven’t been able to find any reference to this motor on the net, it’s not even mentioned in the list of engines in the paperwork that came with it.  I did find a listing for a 3075N marine engine but no picture. Maybe the A stands for Aircraft?

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_332

And to finish a selection of tuned pipes. The Modela pipe looks very nicely made

Show and Tell - Page 5 Mvvs_630
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Post  ticomareado on Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:48 am

The quality control/packing slip appears to be Romanian language.
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Post  rsv1cox on Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:54 am

Beautiful Dave, no wonder we are drawn to these little marvels.

Bob
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