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Post  NEW222 on Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:47 pm

That sure is a nice looking line up you have there. I wish I had the same ambitions and enthusiasm as you right now. But until all this white stuff disappears....... Very Happy
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Post  ticomareado on Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:14 pm

I dunno about the kit part. The motor bearer set up has "prison workshop" written all over it.
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:28 pm

ticomareado wrote:I dunno about the kit part. The motor bearer set up has "prison workshop" written all over it.
I think it shows signs of it coming from a kit, the uniform carving and hollowing of the fuselage, airfoil of the wing. I recall seeing this plane posted elsewhere because it has a unique rudder.

The Enya .09-II has very unique and wide mount bearers on the crankcase. I mounted my .09-III TV in a Kraft (Hayes) .15-.19 mount. Most likely such a plane was designed for the narrower McCoy "9", OK Cub .099, and etc.
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Post  rsv1cox on Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:52 am

I beefed up those engine bearers when I resealed the firewall with epoxy.  

Anyone recognize this model airplane? - Page 2 Silver34

Painted the firewall with epoxy then black paint.   Sealed the firewalls edges and under the bearers too.

I have been trying to connect that plane to something I have seen before.  Finally came up with it.

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Anyone recognize this model airplane? - Page 2 Silver35
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Post  ticomareado on Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:41 am

That was a great movie. Too bad the real pilot killed himsef in the Phoenix near the end of the movie production.
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Post  rsv1cox on Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:55 am

ticomareado wrote:That was a great movie. Too bad the real pilot killed himsef in the Phoenix near the end of the movie production.

Yes, Paul Mantz. IIRC there is an "In memory of" caption at the end of the film. Only partly his fault as he owned the company that built the plane. According to Mr. Google he was doing touch and goes when the fuselage broke in half killing him in the resultant tumble.

Bob
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:00 am

Bob, as I recall we had discussed this in another thread may 6 months ago, so this is old hat. Yes, you've certainly made your Enya powered Phoenix rise out of the ashes like the mythical one of folklore.

NTSB found a contributing factor to the accident, Paul Mantz's drinking. He had a habit of drinking before flying. Amazingly, this seemed to have no effect on him before, as he was always a good pilot. However, he missed a low spot ahead of him, the undercarriage struck the slight hill, plane broke up and thus ended Paul.

http://airportjournals.com/paul-mantz-and-the-last-flight-of-the-phoenix/

Airport Journals wrote:As the plane touched down, the wheels struck a small sandy hump of sun-baked dirt that started to drag heavily at the undercarriage. Mantz gave the engine full throttle, and the plane broke free of the sand. It traveled about a hundred yards with Mantz pulling back on the stick. However, the bump had broken the back of the aircraft, and it split in two, tumbling over at 90 mph on the desert floor, breaking up in the process.

Mantz died instantly when the engine crushed him. Rose, standing behind in the rear of the makeshift cockpit, had strapped himself to a stringer. He was able to release the belt and kick free of the plane. He broke his shoulder blade, but survived and eventually flew again.

When the NTSB accident report was later released, it cited pilot error, stating “pilot-in-command misjudged altitude…airframe overload failure…and alcoholic impairment and judgment.” It’s hard to understand today, but Mantz drank when he flew—and judging by his performances, was still a good stick.

A pilot can always stay out of trouble, he contended, if he uses his head, plans his flight carefully, and avoids letting one emergency compound another. Often, he had made forced landings in small fields when engine trouble occurred. They weren’t a matter of luck; Mantz, like any good pilot, constantly scanned every potential landing field, just in case. However, this was an accident Mantz had not foreseen, brought on because the aircraft couldn’t handle the stress of its takeoffs and landings on asphalt. The landings probably contributed to the fatigue of the airframe. The weather also wasn’t ideal; the temperature was well over 120 degrees and the airplane was sluggish, lacking the lift that arguably may not have helped get the craft out of its trouble.

Paul this time had the deck stacked against him with a possibly marginally safe experimental aircraft, poor low lift weather, a demanding movie production schedule and of course the drinking didn't help.
May be his drinking helped him to have the boldness to fly that contraption?  Huh... Paranoid May Paul Mantz rest in peace. Sad
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Post  rsv1cox on Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:03 pm

I remember that thread George.  Good story.

Probably one of my top ten movies.  A good guy film with a model airplane designer playing a major roll.  

As you described Mantz had three strikes or more against him.  Too bad.  Bet Jimmy Stewart could have flown that contraption.  Maybe not. He was an accomplished pilot but I don't think they let him fly the repro "Spirit of St. Louis" they built for the movie that he starred in.  

After I scratched out my P-38 Lockheed Lightning  I wanted to do two more, a B-24 Liberator and the Spirit.  Never got to either.

I still have dreams of four Babe Bee's powering a Liberator.  Twice the fun of the P-38 which in itself is a ball to fly.

Anyone recognize this model airplane? - Page 2 B-2410

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=5357

This was all I used to build my P-38.  Measured everything and scaled up.  Came pretty close as I had the full scales dimensions.  Nothing modified to make it fly better.  Long before the internet and outerzone.  Would have made things so much easier.  

Anyone recognize this model airplane? - Page 2 P-38_s11
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Later J model nacelles made hanging the inverted Golden Bees inverted easier.  Saved all the stuff from that build.  Got a binder full.

Sorry, in the moment! I got off the beaten track ..............

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Pumped.  I may try that Liberator yet.

Bob
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:44 pm

Nice job on the P-38, Bob, looks really good, inverted engines no less for a clean look. What engines does it use?

I'm less familiar with that B-24. One I remember is the one by Frank M. Baker from 1966 RCM:

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=6706

It has a 60 inch wingspan, used 4 .020 Tee Dees and was flown single channel (note dihedral).

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With the time it took to start all 4 engines, I wonder how he did it figuring that you only have about a minute and a half of flight time?
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Post  ticomareado on Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:00 pm

People would be astounded to know the number of legally drunk airline pilots (that got away with it routinely) and emergency thoracic surgeries done under the influence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHt6alnieVA
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Post  rsv1cox on Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:05 pm

Started out with Golden Bee's George, later Black Widows.  I couldn't tell much difference between the two.

I tried several different types of prop's too.  5/4's 6/3's, three blades of both varieties.  From memory it seems it flew better on 6/3's but I can't find my log to be sure.  Looks better with 3 blades though.  

I wanted/want to build a C/L B-24.


Still waiting to get this foam B-25 in the air. Lights, retracts, etc.

Anyone recognize this model airplane? - Page 2 Nieupo13

Bob
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Post  rsv1cox on Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:37 am

GallopingGhostler wrote:Bob, as I recall we had discussed this in another thread may 6 months ago, so this is old hat. Yes, you've certainly made your Enya powered Phoenix rise out of the ashes like the mythical one of folklore.

NTSB found a contributing factor to the accident, Paul Mantz's drinking. He had a habit of drinking before flying. Amazingly, this seemed to have no effect on him before, as he was always a good pilot. However, he missed a low spot ahead of him, the undercarriage struck the slight hill, plane broke up and thus ended Paul.

http://airportjournals.com/paul-mantz-and-the-last-flight-of-the-phoenix/

Airport Journals wrote:As the plane touched down, the wheels struck a small sandy hump of sun-baked dirt that started to drag heavily at the undercarriage. Mantz gave the engine full throttle, and the plane broke free of the sand. It traveled about a hundred yards with Mantz pulling back on the stick. However, the bump had broken the back of the aircraft, and it split in two, tumbling over at 90 mph on the desert floor, breaking up in the process.

Mantz died instantly when the engine crushed him. Rose, standing behind in the rear of the makeshift cockpit, had strapped himself to a stringer. He was able to release the belt and kick free of the plane. He broke his shoulder blade, but survived and eventually flew again.

When the NTSB accident report was later released, it cited pilot error, stating “pilot-in-command misjudged altitude…airframe overload failure…and alcoholic impairment and judgment.” It’s hard to understand today, but Mantz drank when he flew—and judging by his performances, was still a good stick.

A pilot can always stay out of trouble, he contended, if he uses his head, plans his flight carefully, and avoids letting one emergency compound another. Often, he had made forced landings in small fields when engine trouble occurred. They weren’t a matter of luck; Mantz, like any good pilot, constantly scanned every potential landing field, just in case. However, this was an accident Mantz had not foreseen, brought on because the aircraft couldn’t handle the stress of its takeoffs and landings on asphalt. The landings probably contributed to the fatigue of the airframe. The weather also wasn’t ideal; the temperature was well over 120 degrees and the airplane was sluggish, lacking the lift that arguably may not have helped get the craft out of its trouble.

Paul this time had the deck stacked against him with a possibly marginally safe experimental aircraft, poor low lift weather, a demanding movie production schedule and of course the drinking didn't help.
May be his drinking helped him to have the boldness to fly that contraption?  Huh...  Paranoid May Paul Mantz rest in peace. Sad

A couple of months ago I bought a DVD, Amazon I think, of the movie "Twelve O'clock High".  A two disk set with disk two chronicling the making of the movie, it's cast and other aspects.

They rounded up a dozen or so surplus B-17's and hired pilots to fly them.  One of which was Paul Mantz.

In the movie they sacrificed one of the B-17's in a wheel's up crash landing with Mantz at the controls.  Lot's of footage of Mantz and his take on the movie and the plane.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_O%27Clock_High#/media/File:Twelve_O%27Clock_High_crash_landing.jpg

Considered one of the best and most accurate of all the WW2 movies.

Anyone recognize this model airplane? - Page 2 12_o_c10
 
I cleaned the dingy "What is it" plane of years of dirt and dust with Howard Feed-N-Wax.  Made a big difference in it's appearance.  But I noticed that it has virtually no rudder offset or opposite wing weight.  Hate to crack it open and alter the rudder, but I'm concerned about it maintaining a circle.

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Post  GallopingGhostler on Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:57 am

Interesting factoids on the movie, Bob. Regarding lack of rudder offset and tip weight, your inboard panel appears to be an inch longer than outboard. The 26" span DeBolt All American had the same feature, too. May be okay, Hal DeBolt claimed that doing it this way didn't require tip weight nor rudder offset. It kind of makes sense as the inboard wing with the extra length would develop more lift in manoeuvrers so it would tend to bank outward and maintain line tension.

Have never flown one, so can't say, but there was a logic behind the set up. If engine has offset, perhaps worth a try on a calm no wind day? You're the one who'd fly it and not me, so my comment is academic and not meant to encourage or discourage.
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