Flea market engines

rsv1cox Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:01 am

Mark is at it again. Sent me these pictures:

Told him to pick up the Dragonfly, Black Widow, and a third that I can't ID. .049 (maybe ?) with compression any idea's? Other two are locked up.

Edit add

Ha, thought it looked familiar, got a couple NIB. Gives me one to run. $50 for all three.

davidll1984 Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:13 am

Look like the ame norvel y cant recon its sing mabe .061 wasp it should perform well with a modified venturi Good Find

davidll1984 Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:16 am

Not sur its norvel look like asp wasp To me look like it use norvel parts on its ventury Not so sure its norvel engine Huh...

look like norvel sing just Not like on m'y model look

rsv1cox Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:18 am

davidll1984 wrote:Not sur its norvel look like asp wasp To me Not so sure

Could be David, a Norvel Knock-off. Mark said it had something like c3po on it and I'm thinking Starwars. c3p probably equals ASP.

But a nice little engine. Gave me a chance to look it over.

davidll1984 Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:27 am

tink is 10 for the norvel 10cnpy Not sur tink its model number if it has that type of number its from rusia tink on asp mabe same Not sur on m'y its just number10 on that side of engine

davidll1984 Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:36 am

Its Not .061 tink smaler .049 look its crankcase just befor the trust washer it look difrent from the one y have .. its sing teling me Somting just cant Find its like norvel sur To 88% just its spiner and Bolt desing like the norvel asp use difrent Bolt and Nut type crankchaft Not like norvel

KariFS Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:37 am

I think it says ”AERO” on it. Not sure if there are any Norvel knock-offs around, looks like a genuine Russian (maybe even Soviet) Norvel to me Smile

You guys have waaaay better flea markets than us. All i used to find was worn out rags with an odd overpriced busted low-quality tool here and there DAMMIT!

davidll1984 Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:38 am

I have silencer To rc that cl norvel engine u have

davidll1984 Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:41 am

Yes aero this is it wit round arow on plane chape ? tink its posible aero model its wy Not like asp or norvel crankcase

Ken Cook Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:44 am

Bob, the engine is a AME. AME was the early company name. They were called AME Zeus engines. They were .049's. Later engines aka Norvel use the AME to designate the porting style. Norvel engines such as Big Mig and AME styles look identical on the outside. ASP is a Chinese engine which is a copy of the Norvel and the quality is pretty bad. There's no comparison between the two other than they look alike. I refer to the engines with the backwards E as the Aero case engine. These can really turn up and the case is shorter than a standard Norvel. I've had these engines to nearly 30K. They desire nitro in the 40% and higher ratios. These engines are not knockoffs. All of the Russian variants were all built in the same place just different machinists and time frames.

Surfer_kris Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:48 am

It is not a knock-off, on the contrary the Steels and Aero are early Norvel engines, below is a little "timeline" (it is not complete though, there was a straight muffler model in there too):

davidll1984 Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:46 am

I just learned something I remembered having seen this model, just not sure of the name knew very well that something was wrong and yes norvel is very Good performance it just Not reliable as a cox engine the wasp strange m'y work Good after couple long run Less efficient exept my seems to me more durable? I have not used these engines so much so I rely on my own experience just like wit cox engine if push To its limite wil Not last as long if for u Good performance is rpm wel My standards are somewhat different y like To control m'y model and yes extra rpm is fun I like to fly slowly sometimes faster To me range of 22.000 To 23 wit 6x4 prop this is Already good enough for me I do not compete cl Flying

Good informations Thumbs Up

rsv1cox Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:48 pm

I learned something too, not to speculate among all you experts. Smile

I can't wait to get it, light it off, see if it will hold together and find out what it will do. Spring is Springing.

NEW222 Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:01 pm

I too have to agree that I have not seen any real model related things at flea markets here either. Not that I have attended many lately in the past couple years, but... Nice haul there. Nice to have a child looking out for that stuff for you.

rsv1cox Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:20 pm

NEW222 wrote:I too have to agree that I have not seen any real model related things at flea markets here either. Not that I have attended many lately in the past couple years, but... Nice haul there. Nice to have a child looking out for that stuff for you.

Thanks Chancey, my 57 year old son would be happy to be considered a child. Smile

Comes with a slightly abused Zinger prop.

Ken Cook Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:31 pm

Too much prop for that engine. They need smaller thinner and lighter pitch props to work effectively.

rsv1cox Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:19 pm

Ken Cook wrote: Too much prop for that engine. They need smaller thinner and lighter pitch props to work effectively.

Knowing me Ken, I will probably just work that prop down and balance it for run on the bench testing if it's not split anyplace. I'm pretty eager to see it go, new one to me. Probably do the two Cox engines at the same time after a quick clean-up.

Going over to Marks tomorrow and visit the F Mkt. Will check out those other engines. Mark said the four stroke was nice but had a hefty price. Also the OS boxed engines, but we will see. You know I'll buy the oldest, grungiest engine any day over a pristine new one. My pleasure is in cleaning them up to running condition.

dckrsn Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:57 pm

rsv1cox wrote: You know I'll buy the oldest, grungiest engine any day over a pristine new one. My pleasure is in cleaning them up to running condition.

Aye, Bob. My most gratifying rewards in this hobby come from that same place.
I used to polish the daylights out of Cox engines, but I've taken to lightly steel wool them
back to reality afterwards. I've had a few real hideous ones that were just dirty.
Maybe tried to start once, and just left to have dust, dirt, etc. stick to old castor oil forever.
This one actually had a loose cylinder when I got her. Still had to heat the case to get it off.
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t8213-another-adopted-bee
Bob

:-(

rsv1cox Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:56 am

dckrsn wrote:
rsv1cox wrote: You know I'll buy the oldest, grungiest engine any day over a pristine new one. My pleasure is in cleaning them up to running condition.
Aye, Bob. My most gratifying rewards in this hobby come from that same place.
I used to polish the daylights out of Cox engines, but I've taken to lightly steel wool them
back to reality afterwards. I've had a few real hideous ones that were just dirty.
Maybe tried to start once, and just left to have dust, dirt, etc. stick to old castor oil forever.
This one actually had a loose cylinder when I got her. Still had to heat the case to get it off.
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t8213-another-adopted-bee
Bob

:-(

Got to admit Bob, when I flipped over to your link and saw your first picture I let out a gasp of envy. Right in my "Gotta have it zone."

I loved Ron's comment. "Making the world a better place one Bee at a time." Gold.

Ken Cook Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:57 am

It just amazes me still that after all the years of sitting these engines just start up. I've had engines in boxes more than 50 years old just wake right up. I recently had a Pee Wee .020 my dad gave me when I was 10, I ran it back then but I took it apart and it never ran again until recently. Over the years, I lost the needle valve but what did the engine in was when I removed the reed. I installed it but put the clip in upside down damaging the reed. I bought the needed parts and it's back in business. It felt real good to put that back together after all these years. I always figured I would put it back together and I finally did.

getback Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:09 am

I like that Alum. engine mount to another mount set up , i need to figure a better way to run the bees . I have some of my bees upstares in a ammo box i would like to get running again ,But am afraid i will get them mixed up with all the others . There is a bee in my shop that i got and it has paint / old castor / crud on it that is really Bad ,, does acetone remove paint ? Huh...

Ken Cook Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:15 am

Eric, you can't paint aluminum effectively which is why it's anodized. Water and a scrub brush will remove the paint. Yes, acetone will remove paint and it can do a lot more damage to plastics and such if you splash it. Hot soapy water and a old toothbrush will remove the paint if you let it soak.

rsv1cox Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:31 pm

I went over to Marks this morning and picked up the engines. Nothing to write home about and the prices were only average to good, but no shipping. Smile

The Black Widow is just a later version with plastic backplate and tank, but it's in great condition and it's thick wall cylinder without slits helps me liking it.

The Dragonfly predates the muffler era. Looks to be average, but for $15 worth it. As mentioned $55 for the lot.

Quite eager to try the "Norvell". Going to leave it where it is, mount a tank and see what happens. The sail looks homemade, seems heavy but it's nicely done. Wish I had something to mount it on.

Got a question though. Were the intakes riveted on like one of Kris's engines, or epoxied on?

Ken Cook Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:52 pm

The venturi of that engine is glued into the case. They come out easily using a heat gun. I just grab the venturi with a small adjustable , heat and offer a wiggle and they come out. AERO engines generally won't run on suction. The intake is too large . Not all of these engines were offered with muffler provisions. Some cases were completely flat on the exhaust flange while others had a ovular lip around the case that prevents the muffler from sliding. Seeing that muffler has a nipple, this will help immensely if you use it to your tank for muffler pressure. Many of these engines came with a backplate tap for pressure. I have choked down the venturi's internally by using JB weld and or tubing. I also see that the previous owner has a Cox plug in the engine. I've used high comp heads in them but never standard plugs. Stels suggested that you use Cox 1702 high comp heads in their engines. Stels then developed their own drop in plugs .

rsv1cox Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:38 am

Thanks Ken, you sure can glean a lot from just a couple of pictures. I appreciate the information.

I found a perfect "non-perfect" tank for testing purposes. I still have to remove the clunk and rework it for static purposes. And, pull the propeller and balance it. Not looking for a speed record here, although I will tach it. Might break into my last unopened quart of fuel but will probably use either 5% Traxx or 25% Cox. Probably chuck it up in my bench vice or screw it down to my roll-around bench.

After that, who knows. I would like to build a model for it, perhaps a Vought Corsair F4U one of my favorites. But probably one of these. Ron remembers the Bel-Air.

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