Cox Engines Forum
You are not logged in! Please login or register.

Logged in members see NO ADVERTISEMENTS!


Yabby makes fuel Cox_ba12




Yabby makes fuel Pixel

Log in

I forgot my password

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» The resurrection of the frankenplane
by davidll1984 Today at 12:50 am

» Evolutionary .36
by davidll1984 Today at 12:20 am

» Crash Free weekend and I did Fly
by Yabby Yesterday at 11:04 pm

» music vids.. some of your favorites
by cstatman Yesterday at 4:42 pm

» Old stock mini electric starter repair
by balogh Yesterday at 12:29 pm

» 1st Babe Bee?
by rsv1cox Yesterday at 12:20 pm

» Just HOW do you test compression??
by Surfer_kris Yesterday at 12:15 pm

» Annual Worldwide Ringmaster Fly-A-Thon October 2nd & 3rd
by Kim Yesterday at 8:59 am

» USPS Tracking Good days and Bad
by davidll1984 Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:29 pm

» ***The World's Smallest Traveling Engine*** SIGN UP!
by jmendoza Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:14 pm

» Ringmaster rescue
by NEW222 Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:08 pm

» Building another P-38, 50 years later
by rsv1cox Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:27 pm

Cox Engine of The Month
September-2021
crankbndr's

"Cherry Bomb" .051 engine

More info on this engine!




PAST WINNERS
CEF Traveling Engine

Win This Engine!
Forum Store
CEF Ear Savers
Gallery


Yabby makes fuel Empty

Yabby makes fuel

Go down

Yabby makes fuel Empty Yabby makes fuel

Post  Yabby Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:59 pm

I have read a lot on this and other forums about Glow fuel;old fuel, new fuel, synthetic, castor, castor/synthetic, castor. I buy my fuel from a large hobby store in Oz and it is 15 synth, 5 castor, plus various nitro levels. As I wasnt using it super quickly I would by it 1 litre at a time. Or as most of you would say 1 quarrrrrt lol! I always added castor to it as I was never happy at the low level of castor for such small engines, that rev so high, and have no rings, so its not a big difference between tight and worn out, so to speak. Compared to a big engine.

When I was young racing TZ GP bikes and after that speedway I was sponsored for my fuel by a local race fuel supplier who still exists today and supplies all the fuel here to the drag racing, speedway, circuit racing, boat racing, you name it, if it has an engine and it gets raced they supply the majority of the fuel and of course to the general public. The fuel is always good as it is getting used at a good rate that way and the methanol is the highest grade racing methanol they can get, same with the Nitro.

Often when I ran my glow engines (All Cox as thats just what I enjoy building, running, flying ), the oil that came out of the engine whilst running the hobby shop fuel (with castor added) didnt look right to me, and when I pulled the engine apart, the internals didnt have that nice bright look I would like to see. Its not a thing based on anything other than many years with very high performance two stroke race engines and a feel for things.

I decided to bite the bullet and mix my own fuel with content I trusted to be very high quality and also to the mix I liked and could alter to suit myself. I went off to the supplier that used to sponsor me and bough five litres of methanol in a new fuel can, 5 litres of race Castor Oil, and two litres of Nitro which was decanted into two black plastic 1 litre bottles. I also bought a 1 litre Pyrex graduated (engraved) jug to help with mixing, measuring and pouring between containers. 250 mils of Castor, 250 mils of Nitro, and 500 mils of methanol, gave me a nice mix I liked. Rightly or wrongly I gave it a really good shake in the container to mix it through and left it for two days before using it. After two days it had gone a nice light yellow sort of colour all through.

I tested it on my Surestart engines and my TD engines, on the bench and then flying them, and they loved it! Very Happy started very easily, ran consistent revs and the oil coming out of the exhaust was a nice clear yellow! I pulled the engines apart when I got home and they had a really nice bright clear even thin coating of clean oil all over them. Just what I wanted cheers sunny

Maybe its just a Yabby thing, but I think, Make your own fuel if you can, and you can get good methanol, castor, and nitro. Not only did it save me money being about 1/3 the cost of the stuff the hobby shop sells, but im convinced it is better for my engines! If you can get the supplies, it is very easy to make, mix a litre as you need it. Perfect.

I know fuel can be a bit controversial, and many different views and opinions, especially in respect to synth and detergent properties. I didnt use any synth. I like it as just castor, nitro, methanol. Works for me, and Im happy with it. Im sure others will see it differently which is one of the good things about all forms of motor sport and tuning etc. cheers Old Bugger lol!

Yabby
Yabby
Yabby
Silver Member
Silver Member

2021 Supporter

Posts : 89
Join date : 2021-06-08
Location : Murray River

Back to top Go down

Yabby makes fuel Empty Re: Yabby makes fuel

Post  Ken Cook Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:19 pm

In general, it's expensive. It's expensive to buy pre made and it's expensive to buy ingredients to mix your own. I just bought 1 gallon of nitro last week and it was $70. A gallon of Klotz Benol was $53, I also use Klotz Techniplate which was $59 a gallon. I buy 4 gallons of methanol which is $62. This works great for making stunt fuel and this amount won't last me a season. My last case of GMA 10-22 Powermaster which has 6 gallons in it cost me $230 for the case delivered to me.  It's not cost effective to make my 1/2A fuel due to the amount of nitro in it. While most use 35% for 1/2A, many of my combat engines run on this fuel and 8 flights = a qt. This can become a expensive day. The New Jersey Vintage Combat festival is next month and I can blow through a gallon in no time which costs me $80 currently. Between the cost of fuel, glow plugs and everything else the hobby should be dead rather quickly.
Ken Cook
Ken Cook
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 4485
Join date : 2012-03-27
Location : pennsylvania

Back to top Go down

Yabby makes fuel Empty Re: Yabby makes fuel

Post  944_Jim Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:07 pm

Good for you, Yabby!

I can't find 1/2A fuel anywhere nearby. I do pass a hobby shop travelling along one of two significant trips from home (state capital, and beach vacation spot), and pick up a gallon (or more) of high nitro/low oil fuel when on the road. A local dirt track engine builder sells methanol BYOB, and Walmart sells castor oil by the quart.

I use this http://web2.murraystate.edu/andy.batts/ps/fuel.htm to blend the latest stash to about 54% methanol, 23% nitro, 23% oil. I try to get the oil to about 3:1 synth/castor.
This works great in my Cox, Norvel, AP engines. I've also been quite satisfied with another fuel I mixed for bench-running a Fox .35, and plan on flying on the same "bench fuel" as I learn "Fly Big."

Is all this counting/blending creating a repeatable mix?  I think it is closer than splashing in a few capfulls of castor into whatever fuel comes along.

I would like to experiment to see just how close I can run my engines on zero nitro fuel this fall.

@Ken Cook wrote:Between the cost of fuel, glow plugs and everything else the hobby should be dead rather quickly.

Ouch!
Expensive, yes. Dead? Mmm...nope. I hope "evolved." I don't like the idea of no more Suck-Squeeze-Bang-Blow. Newer materials will take the place of balsa. No need for dope in the post-methanol days either. But the reality is the hobby will go electric (or die), and we will all have jewel cases of engines that will be hard to find fuel for. We will die, and at that point they won't be worth melting down for recycling.

What scares me is as we see our models "evolve," so will my other hobby. I jokingly call myself a curator of a private antique vehicle collection. While I'm in no rush to die, I hope I don't live to see those old cars and motorcycles forced off the road. Oh, by then it will be illegal to modify a private vehicle away from its original factory build, so electrifying the Porsche, the TR6, the CB1100F and the old Honda S-90 better happen in, oh, the next ten years ("Yeah, right!")
The big bike and the TR are being studied for their potential. The S-90 is too small, and the Porsche, well, is a Porsche ('nuff said). As above, soon enough the bigger toys won't be worth breaking down for recycling either! Sad

I really hope I don't get to see any of these changes.


Last edited by 944_Jim on Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:19 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : Clarity...and a pun (look for it))
944_Jim
944_Jim
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

2019 Supporter

2020 Supporter

2021 Supporter

Posts : 1221
Join date : 2017-02-08
Age : 56
Location : NE MS

Back to top Go down

Yabby makes fuel Empty Re: Yabby makes fuel

Post  andrew Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:45 pm

I wouldn't mind mixing my own fuel from raw ingredients, but mail ordering components is prohibitive due to hazmat fees and there are no race shops near me. I've ended up buying high nitro/low oil content car fuel (usually in quarts) and blending to the ratios that I want.

I wrote the fuel calculator that Jim mentioned in the post above to save time in doing the blend calculations -- they're not difficult, but are fiddly when blending two fuels plus oil. I wrote another as a Window's application that's much easier to use (graphical with a slider), but my email provider blocks sending it because it's an executable and treated as a potential virus carrier. Anyone here would be welcome to have it if I can figure a way to send it.

Only one other in my club flys small engines, so we're sort of left to our own. Since I live in the county, I'm relatively close to a number of open areas, but to avoid complaints, I've found the ease and quiteness of the electron burners to work well in those locations.

I agree with Ken, cost effectiveness for 1/2A fuels is a thing of the past.
andrew
andrew
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1430
Join date : 2011-08-11
Age : 73
Location : Western Kentucky

http://web2.murraystate.edu/andy.batts/ps/POWERSUPPLY.HTM

Back to top Go down

Yabby makes fuel Empty Re: Yabby makes fuel

Post  944_Jim Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:53 pm

Andrew Batts,

I will PM my email address and phone number tomorrow. I've always wanted a crack at the executable one you mention. I'd like to talk of ways to try to move your file. I know of one way that should be surefire, but it won't work for most people. Once I have it, I can play with changing file types and test sending to myself (work email and public mail service). I will be glad to share how from there.
944_Jim
944_Jim
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

2019 Supporter

2020 Supporter

2021 Supporter

Posts : 1221
Join date : 2017-02-08
Age : 56
Location : NE MS

Back to top Go down

Yabby makes fuel Empty Re: Yabby makes fuel

Post  Yabby Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:50 pm

Hi Andrew,

Have you considered making the application available to others via https://github.com/ or https://sourceforge.net/ both of these sites host code for free. they usually host the source and some binaries and use licences such as GPL II and GPL III and other FOSS (Free and Open Source Software) Licences. Its a great way of making your code available to others, getting feedback on the code if you want, seeing how many downloads there are, maybe someone will be interested and want to help you (doesnt happen often)

I have used both of these for many years, in the case of sourceforge over 30 years. They are good sites if you are not looking to make money from your code so much as just see it put to use by people and see it bring good to people. Ive contributed a lot of code to many projects including the Linux Kernel and stuff for video card drivers and other embedded device sort of code.

Yabby
Yabby
Yabby
Silver Member
Silver Member

2021 Supporter

Posts : 89
Join date : 2021-06-08
Location : Murray River

Back to top Go down

Yabby makes fuel Empty Re: Yabby makes fuel

Post  cstatman Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:42 am

so cool to see the motorbike enthusiasts here...

My thoughts on fuel?

i'm old and tired - i dont want to sit out in the shop blending flammables anymore
I want to ride motorbikes, build and fly models, and gaze wistfully at pretty young things in whatever the latest fashion.

I can mail order fuel

https://sigmfg.com/collections/fuel/products/sig-champion-fuel?variant=380738928649

Sig Champion 35% - i have been buying by the pint, (Yabby, even lads who use Litres know what a proper pint looks like!)
35% Nitromethane
20% Lubricating Oils
(1/2 Castor, 1/2 Klotz)

~$10 + shipping ~$20. shows up at my door. I pour it into the tank, and let the boy fly his CL

IF I get super excited and really start flyin more? I MAY buy a quarrrrt at $17

I'll spend the rest of the time putternig around on the Tenere 700 -- although a pal asked last night if I was interested in reviving his TZ750 for a trackday....
cstatman
cstatman
Bronze Member
Bronze Member

Posts : 56
Join date : 2021-02-17
Age : 57
Location : San Jose, CA

Back to top Go down

Yabby makes fuel Empty Re: Yabby makes fuel

Post  Yabby Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:19 pm

@cstatman wrote:so cool to see the motorbike enthusiasts here...

My experience is that a lot of the fellas I raced with and against also were very into CL planes. Usually prior to taking up senior level racing and after they finished racing. I think a lot of the good stuff is in there with CL flying. modifying (or not) relatively cheap engines, seeing what happens when you change things, sharing ideas just like Pit talk and being cautious of some Pit Talk lol! Noise, fumes, showing off. The big differences are you dont get hurt, its cheap, and it doesnt help pull chicks. Lol.

The TZ750 should be a blast!!! :-) cheers I once got to ride a TZ 750 Ow31 !!! Man, it was insane!! and to think people raced those jiggers around Bathurst and the Isle of Man. I got to race at Bathurst on a TZ 350 which was an insanley fast and dangerous circuit in Oz which is no longer used for bike racing. It usually killed 2 to 3 riders at the meet every easter, but how I wish I had been able to afford to race at the Isle of Man!!! Still Im happy with the things I have done and very happy with what I do now, and a part of that is flying Cox CL and also fishing in the boat with my Lad Clapping No regrets Very Happy infact the things I share with my Lad mean more to me than anything else!! and they are now!! not the past. lol! Old Bugger

Yabby
Yabby
Yabby
Silver Member
Silver Member

2021 Supporter

Posts : 89
Join date : 2021-06-08
Location : Murray River

Back to top Go down

Yabby makes fuel Empty Re: Yabby makes fuel

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum