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Dakota Done Empty Dakota Done

Post  firstwordisee Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:13 pm

Ready for maiden, 7oz, even with lots of lead in nose, 0.20 running well. Hopefully these pics arent my only memories. Launching this weekend, maybe Ill get some lastDakota Done Dak4111
Dakota Done Dak811
minute flight tips. Been waiting 3 weeks for std 4.5 prop to come from Canada (wanted a bigger prop but couldnt easily find), no show might delay flight. The Thimble Drome just doesnt seem right on this plane.
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Post  firstwordisee Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:44 pm

Dakota Done Dk2211
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Post  NEW222 Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:53 pm

Great job! Hopefully weather will cooperate for you and your flights.
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Post  Ken Cook Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:31 am

Your engine needs downthrust. It actually looks from the pic as if it has upthrust. Do you have a eyedropper on the the engine? A 15 second engine run can put the plane out of sight.
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Post  getback Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:21 am

Nice job on the build , It does appear to have some down thrust as Ken said
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Post  firstwordisee Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:20 pm

Thanks guys.
Ken I value your experience.
No eye dropper. Plan to inject scarce fuel and try to time it right, had to laugh at "15 sec. run will put it out of sight"
It does appear that engine is very slightly up.
So with down thrust should I put a shim behind top of backplate? My mounting bolts are flush with nuts now. Any recommendation of shim thickness or material? How much down thrust should I start with? I know its difficult without having model in your hands but hoping for some guidance.
I need to get this up and down quick and close, I have a very small school yard field close to me to test it.
Good news is the prevailing wind blows into several acres of open private land (if it goes that way lol) just prefer not to hop a fence and trespass to retrieve it.
Thanks again.
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Post  davidll1984 Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:44 pm

A beautiful little model that you made Good luck with the maiden flight Thumbs Up Airplane
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Post  rsv1cox Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:04 pm

Love your Dakota. What a nice little plane.

Ken worries about losing it, I worry about the wheels. Built in probably but breakaway or a belly landing might be better. Depends on where it might come down. Not sure where you are. West Virginia you might be in trouble, Nebraska or Arizona much better.

There is a full scale airplane that has a parachute built in that activates at the pilots command if there is a problem. I bet there are free flight models out there that a crafty modeler has modified to do the same thing. R/C activated.

No matter, it's going to be great and I wish you the best of luck.
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Post  Ken Cook Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:06 pm

Ok, first I would start with obtain some clay. I know for a fact the plane needs nose weight. Put washers under the backplate but don't stress the ears by overtightening. I would offer 5 deg down and even more if needed. On release, LAUNCH INTO THE WIND. DO this for two reasons, it provides lift and it will circle to the left and come back into the wind and gain altitude. When a Dakota is out of balance it flies weird as could be. You don't want the tail end down and the nose pitched up high. It will loop and come back and slam the ground.

Of the 3 I've had, all were tail heavy and you now have a Pee Wee which is lighter than any engine I had on mine. I know BMJR offers that plate behind the Pee Wee to send it out a little further but I would still add a quarter sized chunk of clay about 3/4" thick.

Trying to time how a integral tanked bee will run is difficult, you need enough to get it to run and you can't see how much fuel is in the tank.

PROP ON BACKWARDS, lean it out and launch. I mentioned this before, if it doesn't work, it's easy enough to flip it around. The Dakota can go out of sight if not careful. I lost one of mine and I was pretty hot about it.

The plane will turn to the left due to torque, you should add a slight amount of rudder to the right which will cause the plane to turn to the right when the engine quits. Don't add too much rudder as it also impacts the turn on take off. Just add small amounts, you don't want it to spin in and stall when the power cuts.
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Post  rsv1cox Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:35 pm

One more thing. Put your phone number in it or on it!
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Post  Ken Cook Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:47 pm

That way the lawyers find you faster
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Post  rsv1cox Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:22 pm

Ken Cook wrote:                     That way the lawyers find you faster

Smile Smile

It was a club requirement when I was flying R/C. Probably populated by a goverrning board of lawyers.

Smile - Bob
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Post  Ken Cook Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:47 pm

Run or floor it nowadays.
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Post  firstwordisee Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:25 pm

Thanks again for the nice comments and good luck wishes.
Ken, I smashed fishing weights and epoxied in the nose, I was surprised how much was needed. The plane balances barely on the leading edge of bottom wing as recommended in instructions. I will bring clay if that isnt enough. Hopefully I have some small washers around here to do as you advise for down thrust, thanks for that. I found that plate/spacer in the kit but there was no mention of it in instructions, everything seemed right without it, not going to worry about it now, If I build another one for pee wee I will definitely use it. Ive got slight right rudder, I wont be adding eye dropper for this test, I know what you mean about not knowing how much fuel you have, Ive been trying to time it but it does seem to struggle to start with min fuel (fuel pick up is flush with bottom of tank). May just have to hold it for a very long time before release. Ill also reverse the prop.
Phone number#?? I was going to wipe down my finger prints, LOL.
We have high winds forecast for several days so right now not good.
I think it was rsv1 that asked where I'm located. Im in the foothills/mountains east of San Diego. My little town has about 1800 people, a lot of big lots (except for mine). If this plane gets away odds of it hitting someone or something of value are pretty slim, unfortunately if it does I will hear about it.
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Post  firstwordisee Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:40 pm

Forgot to mention I read somewhere about a guy that used bb's in tank to displace fuel. Anyone tried this, any reason not to try it?
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Post  Ken Cook Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:39 am

I personally wouldn't do that. Vibration can cause wear all inside the tank due to the BB's rolling and shaking. My buddy Dan used plastic balls in a .049 Babe bee. It works to a point, you can't get back to back timed runs.The bigger concern I would have is that if it begins starving for fuel, it could really lean up which puts the nose up and stalls the plane. However, a test is always worth it.

Have you test glided the plane? Do this in high grass if possible.
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Post  firstwordisee Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:45 pm

45 mph winds with 65 mph gust, birds cant even fly, LOL, no maiden flight right now! Decided to install an eyedropper tank.
Used Lexel to seal fuel lines on dropper, after many attempts with other things, I think this will work, but now I need to wait several days for curing. Ken, you convinced me this was necessary.
I was considering the design of this model, since some suggested I add down thrust. I emailed BMJR. Couldnt believe that Brian himself responded within 30min (very late evening).

Quote...
"I have built several and NONE had any down thrust.
As for the prop backwards , I  would not . the PeeWee is marginal.
to ensure a short flight; you could use an eyedropper tank.

Take the tank off the PeeWee. There is a short piece of fuel line inside the tank.
Drill an hole in the tank, and replace the fuel line with a longer piece attached to an eye dropper.

Brian"

I have 1 degree downthrust right now. Which seems like a lot but think I will try it on maidenDakota Done Fuel_t10
Dakota Done Fuel_t11

Dakota Done Fuel_t10
Dakota Done Fuel_t11
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Post  Ken Cook Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:05 am

Not to detract from Brian's advice.( KEEP IN MIND NOTHING I OFFERED IS PERMANENT) I will say he put in left thrust. A lot of it mind you which is actually too much. The original didn't have any left thrust dialed into the firewall and the original plans which I have calls for downthrust. I can post a video of why.  I'm not certain as to what you sealed the eyedropper with. I take the rubber bulb on the top and drill a small hole in it. I cover the hole with my finger and pull the bulb up and down which pumps the fuel into the engine prior to starting. In addition, the fuel line where it attaches to the eyedropper, I use a little CA and that's it.

              So here's a video of the Dakota, no downthrust and prop on normal position. This is what happens when too much power is offered. No one hurt in the making of this video, just my pride   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaFw4YfBw-k

             The Pee Wee is low on power for this plane, however, when running the prop backwards it's performance is very low. This is exactly what your striving for. I never built one with the Pee Wee, I used OK Cubs, Attwood Wasps and Spitzy's. All very anemic engines but also heavier than the Pee Wee. Again, I can only offer advice from the 3 I built and the others that my club members have built. My flying partner Dan lost his at the NATS 3 years ago and he lost one at Brodak's . I lost mine last year at our r/c flying field. This was a result of not enough downthrust and props working too well. Under strong power, this plane will climb fast in a corkscrew climb, it will roll out and essentially fly straight for a fair distance until it begins it's right hand turning decent. If not careful and you get this up high enough, just wave bye bye to it.

          Some more video, from last yr. I like watching it, good stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwZPbcIFAo8
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Post  fredvon4 Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:37 am

I enjoyed the videos, thanks Ken
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Post  rsv1cox Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:28 am

Crazy Ken! That plane had it in for you. Amazed that it looks like it sustained little to no damage.

Bob
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Post  Ken Cook Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:02 am

I'm not trying to tell you what to do so don't be offended by what I suggest. I see your eye dropper on the outside of the plane. I also have no idea of how large your field is. Your length of fuel tubing alone from the bottom of the eye dropper to the engine holds enough fuel to send the plane out of sight. When I launch with the eye dropper, I don't even have 1/4" in the bottom of the dropper. My OK engine uses a lot of fuel so I use more but keep that in mind. Remember my statement above, a 15 second engine run can put a plane out of sight.
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Post  Ken Cook Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:08 am

There's a fellow on You Tube who's named Ritchie. He built the Dakota and flew it with a Cox .049. He launched with it screaming and lost it. He found it months later but the video had me cracking up. I contacted him and we exchanged many e-mails. It was funny to watch probably not so much for him to experience but he did get the plane back and the engine still is in use. He was concerned for not having anymore engines and I wanted to send him another. Don't be discouraged by what doesn't seem picture perfect. It's all fun and these things even in a short flight will provide so much enjoyment there's no way you can't smile after it flew.
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Post  firstwordisee Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:50 am

Believe me Ken I value your hands on experience. Thanks for the videos too, I need my plane to do what yours does in the second vid! Ill start with 1 degree down thrust, easy enough to add more if plane returns. Hearing about all these fly aways (even your buddy Dan who seems very experienced) makes me more and more anxious.
I used what was avail at my local drug store for eyedropper, its plastic, dont know that I am happy with it. Wanted to use a standard glass eydropper with suction cup (guess I need to order online). Not sure the fuel line will hold to dropper with the lexel, it didnt want to stick to it, nor did CA. Experimenting, I wrapped with dental floss and tried again with Lexel to makes sort of a boot, it takes several days to cure, we'll see. I attached to plane with heavy duty velcro (maybe work maybe not once fuel gets behind it). I corked the top with some rubber scrap. By adding a bit of fuel P/U line on top I am hoping I can inject fuel through it to the engine (havent been able to test this yet). I did bench test this set up (without the cork). Took a lot of priming to get the engine to suck the fuel through, once there it was about a 20 sec run time with 3/4 of dropper full. This may be due to having the smaller prop? I know I only need about 5 sec, just have a hard time leaning the motor out before fuel is gone. Ive been waiting for a std 4.5 pee wee prop to arrive from coxengines in Canada, ordered on Nov 1st still not here.
BTW, I saw that Ritchie video, hilarious.
Thanks for your reply and input!
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Post  Ken Cook Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:08 pm

Keep in mind, that you need to vent the top of the dropper. If the cork is sealing the dropper off, the fuel will not go into the engine. This is why I drill a hole in the top of my dropper bulb. You need to use caution here as it can easily flood due to the weight of fuel in the dropper gravity feeding into the engine.
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Post  firstwordisee Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:06 pm

Mine is vented with the small piece of fuel pick up line in center of cork. As mentioned though Im not sure I am happy with this setup. Im going to order a basic glass eye dropper from amzn I think it will be much cleaner set up and easier to fit the tubing. bTW they have curved tips and staight, is there any preference here?
I've been eyeballing a field very close to me for testing, just have to find the owner and ask if I can use it, it has to be 40 acres plus, delapitated fencing, flat, dead weeds, no boulders (problem around here), no livestock, no people, no trees, no stress.
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