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Post  MauricioB Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:53 pm

Guys, I found this helicopter on the web and was wondering if it could be converted to glow, using maybe a Cox Tee Dee .020 or a Pee Wee .020.
Of course you have to reinvent the blade system, copying the Original Cox, but taking into account the original measurements of the ZOOM COPTER, do you think it may be possible to adapt the Cox motor? Or is it too small?
The approximate measurements are:
Fuselage length: 22 cm = 8.66 inches
Fuselage width: 5 cm = 1.96 inches
Fuselage height: 8 cm = 3.14 inches
I have placed the measurements in the photo.
Any comment you want to make will be well received!!... if possible, I'm a little crazy haha!
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. S-l16022
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Post  GallopingGhostler Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:57 pm

No veo por qué no, ¿Cox .020 Pee Wee posiblemente? Very Happy
I don't see why not, possibly the Cox .020 Pee Wee?
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Post  balogh Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:38 am

Mauricio,

the Pee Wee, that runs in both directions may be OK...the TeeDee020, running only counter clockwise, works only, if the heli rotor turns clockwise, under the reaction torque to the engine. If not, the blading of the heli needs to be inverted for the TeeDee rotation..
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Post  MauricioB Tue Jul 25, 2023 8:14 am

GallopingGhostler, balogh...
Yes yes, you have to study the direction of rotation and the entire original Cox system.
I'm still trying to figure out how the original Cox system actually works as when the motor is stopped the blades are balanced so they go to negative angle and when engaged I think they go to neutral.
I think the way Cox's helicopter climbs is the sum of the pull from the small motor blade and the large rotor blades. What confuses the interpretation a bit is the change in the angle of attack of the blades through their counterweight.
There is an A,B,C... in the process of flying Cox's helicopter, which would be very interesting to see how the pieces interact as the flight occurs.
Hopefully there is someone in the forum who knows the process in depth and can leave us the explanation to learn more. Otherwise, in my case, everything will be pure deduction, which may be wrong.
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Post  MauricioB Tue Jul 25, 2023 8:24 am

The supports (steel wires) that hold each blade also have a negative angle, which form a kind of umbrella, this may be the way in which the entire system turns into a "fall arrester" when the engine stops...in short, they are thoughts.
It is very interesting, it is very curious for me to learn the true function of the system, this device flies incredibly well and it does everything by itself, so they have studied a lot the process for each helicopter flight situation.
All these physical things go very unnoticed by the fan or user, but for those of us who are curious to know why something flies, then it becomes very interesting to learn.
The rotation of the fuselage, which at times remains firm, is clearly due to the torque of the motor - rotor, but from the rotor balance device, the fuselage tends to hardly rotate and maintain a more orderly flight.
Putting traction on a rear prop would be great, but for now I just want to learn step by step.
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Post  MauricioB Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:03 pm

here I received the Zoom Copter, compared to the Cox Sky Ranger, it is much smaller.
I think even a .020 Cox would be too big for him.
Does anyone have the measurements for a Cox SKY COPTER .020 helicopter?
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. 20230719
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. 20230720
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. 20230721
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. Img-2302
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Post  GallopingGhostler Fri Jul 28, 2023 1:02 am

Mauricio, Outerzone tiene un plan de helicóptero, poder de motor Pee Wee:
Mauricio, Outerzone has a Pee Wee power helicopter plan:

Outerzone #10184: 19in (485mm) "Gyro-copter" enero 1960 M.A.N.

ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. 1018410

ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. 00310

Puedes medir el área de esas palas del rotor principal en ese diseño, entonces conocerás el tamaño que utilizar.
You can measure the area of those main rotor blades in that design, then you will know the size to use.

Entonces, prorrateas el área del rotor por aumento de peso con el fuselaje de plástico.
Then, you prorate the rotor area for weight gain with the plastic fuselage.

¿Qué crees sobre eso?
What do you think about that?
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Post  Levent Suberk Fri Jul 28, 2023 1:19 am

Hi Mauricio, I think that Pee Wee is good for the helicopter. Blade length is about 20 centimetres, as I see from the photos. Is weight also important?
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Post  HalfaDave Fri Jul 28, 2023 8:40 am

Hi Mauricio,
Have you tried the ZOOM helicopter as it is ?
The packaging says it is a '21st Century New Design'... Very Happy
The 1970s ones went up, then crash landed. We used to tie firecrackers to them...
Timing the wick to launch, was the key... Laughing
I have seen the same Cox heli you have go. (thanks for the nice video!)
It was calm, around ten yrs ago, (how calm?)
MJD had one that had not run in 15yrs. It fired up easily, ran a tank, re-fueled and let it go....
Straight Up ! Hard to tell how high it got because it went straight overhead...The engine stopped.
I was expecting a flutter down crash, but No !
It auto rotated/glided down. Cool Better yet, I picked it up, 20 yrds/M away ! Cool Cool
I brought it back, and Mike says, " I guess that is the the way the wind is blowing..." Laughing Cool
We laughed and went on to CL/RC that day...
Hope you like this story,
Take care,
Have fun,
Dave
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Post  duaneh Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:09 pm

MauricioB wrote:Does anyone have the measurements for a Cox SKY COPTER .020 helicopter?

Mauricio, here are some quick measurements of the .020 Skycopter:
Fuselage length                 30cm
Rotor dia.                            50cm
length/width of
individual rotor blade     17.7/2.3cm
Weight                                 103g
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Post  MauricioB Fri Jul 28, 2023 11:25 pm

Dear friends, thank you very much for all the contributions you have made here, they are all very valuable to find the right path.
I think my ZOOM Copter is too small considering the data, I'm also thinking of a Cox Tee Dee .010...but I have to take the time to see what work really needs to be done.
Meanwhile I am assembling a Great Planes Extra SP airplane with a SAITO .82 4-stroke engine...once I finish this work, I will resume the Heli!
Dave: No I haven't flown the original ZOOM Copter as it arrives. I have only dedicated myself to taking measures and rethinking the project since, as I commented, it is very small!
Thanks again friends!!
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. 20230722
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Post  MauricioB Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:23 am

Well, I have finished and successfully flown the Great Planes Extra 300S SP with Saito .82 4T engine.
It is really a model with very good flight conditions, I will make a video soon!
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. 20230724
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. 20230723
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Post  MauricioB Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:30 am

then taking up the Zoom Copter...
I was thinking about what to make the blades with, so it occurred to me to use material that is at hand.
The blades are built with school rules, part of the attachment of the blades is made with pen caps, the fastening wires, they are bicycle spokes and that's how I started working on this...we'll see what comes out...
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. Img-2303
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ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. Img-2307
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. Img-2308

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Post  Levent Suberk Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:48 am

Good idea Mauricio Very Happy  Is it a .010 on desk? Why don't you use original blades?
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Post  MauricioB Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:18 pm

Levent Suberk wrote:Good idea Mauricio Very Happy  Is it a .010 on desk? Why don't you use original blades?

Hello dear friend!
Thank you! Yes, it is a .010, although I don't know if it will have enough power, I will see everything in the process, maybe I have to place a .020... but, it all depends on the result...
I don't use the original blades because they have the opposite profile and direction of rotation to what the helicopter needs given the rotation of the Tee Dee.
I think that of the original blades I will only use a piece of them, the section that fits into the central assembly.
I can also modify the original blades by taking them from the other end, but for now, I'm going with the school supplies haha... this is interesting!
Will it work or not??... who knows! ha ha
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Post  getback Sat Aug 05, 2023 8:16 am

Popcorn sounds interesting Eyebrows
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Post  MauricioB Sat Aug 05, 2023 9:48 am

It seems that what I have in mind works... but from what I'm observing the material used is something brittle, it seems to be a hard plastic.
It is possible, seeing that the thought form works, do it by then modifying the original blades.

ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. Img-2309
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. Img-2310
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. Img-2311
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Post  MauricioB Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:00 am

Well here I reformed the original blades since the plastic is flexible and perfectly complies with the adaptation.
It was necessary to cut the arm that joins them to the rotor and invert the holding end of each blade to achieve the correct direction of rotation, taking advantage of the blades' profile.
The balance weights were made with steel from fishing hooks and a piece of carved lead.
The travel angles of each blade can be controlled, since it manufactures collar rings with a travel stop.
The center hub of the rotor was replaced with a 3mm motorcycle rim spoke.
Each of the arms that hold each blade are spokes from 2 mm bicycle tires.
I'm still working on the project.
I think I'll put in a .020!
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. Img-2312
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. Img-2313
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. Img-2314
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. Img-2315
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Post  Levent Suberk Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:06 am

Good engineering. Bravo Mauricio.
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Post  rsv1cox Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:17 pm

You lost me Mauricio when the school rulers became pieces of plastic. Did you just use the rulers for a pattern?

Nice job as usual. Love those tip weights.

Bob
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Post  MauricioB Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:42 pm

Thank you very much Levent! It's always good to hear from you!
Beto; the school rules were the initial idea, only that I began to see that the material, although it is flexible at the same time, is brittle, therefore, I went ahead with them to see if the planned system, balance and way of holding each beam worked bike, as I saw that "apparently" everything works, so I decided to modify the original blades that are made of a very flexible material, I didn't want to ruin them initially, I think the modification is good and it will work.
This "thing" makes me think every step of the way, and that's very good for my wits. If it works, I'll feel great, if it doesn't work, I think I've tried it judiciously...we'll see what happens, hahaha
Thank you for your evaluation friend!
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Post  balogh Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:56 pm

I love your win-win assessment of your experiment approach Mauricio, no matter what, if you do not try, you will never know the result!

And congrats to the modification steps..the 020 TeeDee is the right size engine in my estimate, too..
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Post  MauricioB Wed Aug 09, 2023 1:06 am

Thank you very much András for your comment, thank you for joining the project... it's a nice craft challenge friend!
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Post  MauricioB Wed Aug 09, 2023 1:16 am

Well I finally settled on a .020 Pee Wee motor as I have a chopper plate for that motor and I think it would fit just fine.
So I thought about how to make a fuel tank, well here are the steps of what I came up with:
Take two syringes, the ones used for injections.
Take the front part of them and heat seal one of the peaks, for that use a little fire from a small hand torch.
Then with a hot air gun, I gave temperature to one of the parts and placed a piece of round wood (broomstick), in this way I enlarged the section, then I introduced one inside the other and with a soldering iron for tin, electric, I melted the parts achieving a very good union.
The syringes are very cheap so this is the first deposit, so I can experiment with making others and see which one suits me best.
The nozzle was enlarged with a wick and under pressure it fits into the fuel inlet of the Cox Pee Wee .020 plate, although it remains very firm, I will also see to place something that retains it so that it does not leak when it is in operation and rotating .
Here the photos of the test of the fuel tank.
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. Img-2316
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ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. Img-2321
ZOOM Copter ...my crazy head is thinking.. Img-2322
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Post  rdw777 Wed Aug 09, 2023 7:20 am

Wonderful job on the helicopter Mauricio!!!…Looks like you understand the concept to auto rotate down very well…. The fuel tank was a brilliant idea!!….. Wishing you success with your project Friend!!!
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