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Post  Levent Suberk Fri Sep 08, 2023 11:02 am

Building a Guillows Piper Cherokee 140 rubber powered model nowadays. It is my first rubber model since 1970s, didn't fly a rubber powered model for more than 50 years. Electric and control line instructions are omitted in Guillows kits, but .020 powered free flight instructions are included. I know that building these small stick and tissue scale models need more skill and patience than building big scale models with engines, so I think that scale models at this size aren't for kids.

Note that "Balsa flies better" Very Happy

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Post  rdw777 Fri Sep 08, 2023 12:20 pm

Looks great Levent Very Happy ….The building looks neat and clean and covering looks good too!!….Just follow the little Guillows booklet to do the curves on the fuselage….A couple of tips if you’re planning to fly it….The props in the Guillows kits are terribly inefficient…If you can get a little block of balsa a much more efficient one can be carved… You may already know how…. I can walk you thru it if you would like to try…..

Guillows kits usually tend to be heavy so find the magical tall grass for landing on your first test flights….. Looking forward to see how it turns out…. Thanks for sharing Very Happy

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Post  getback Fri Sep 08, 2023 2:44 pm

Looks really Good man you got a jump on it and should come together for you with out a problem , Is this a old or new kit and U using the silk that came with it , Looks Good on it Very Happy Popcorn
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Post  rsv1cox Fri Sep 08, 2023 2:51 pm

Nice Levent. You must have painted the pilot, I envy your steady hand. It will be interesting to see how you finish it.

"Balsa Flys Better" - yes if you don't load it down with cement and dope as I tend to do. Sad My only surviving Guilows model is a Nieuport 17 last "flown" about five years ago, yes into tall grass. I might have got 20 feet out of it.
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Post  Levent Suberk Fri Sep 08, 2023 3:33 pm

getback wrote:Looks really Good man you got a jump on it and should come together for you with out a problem , Is this a old or new kit and U using the silk that came with it , Looks Good on it Very Happy  Popcorn

It is a new kit not a vintage one. I use the covering paper supplied in kit, somewhat different textured paper. I used white glue thinned with water instead of thinned dope for covering. Sniffing cellulosic glue a little is a part of the model building for me, remembering childhood days Very Happy
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Post  706jim Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:30 pm

While it probably shouldn't matter, I'd think that a low wing plane like this Cherokee would be less stable as a free flight than something with a high wing. My experience anyway.
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Post  MauricioB Fri Sep 08, 2023 9:52 pm

simply wonderful!!!
I love those jobs... my friend, I have assembled all kinds of planes, from scratch to ARF, I fully agree, building a small model is more complicated than a large model where you can stick up to your nose.
Aeromodelling in situations such as working with a small model, or working assembling a Cox .010 or .020, requires a lot of patience, again and again, the attempt goes, you can't hold the piece, it escapes and you try again, or yes that gives temperance to the soul friend... you put a G ring in a Cox .020 engine and ping!!!, it comes out and escapes... and you look for it for hours in the immense workshop, until you find it and say: yes people knew everything behind it.....in short...a universe only for a few....
Miniaturization, temper and shape the character..!
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Post  akjgardner Sat Sep 09, 2023 5:31 am

Nice job, are you using dope or white glue on the tissue?
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Post  Levent Suberk Sat Sep 09, 2023 6:32 am

akjgardner wrote:Nice job, are you using dope or white glue on the tissue?

Thanks. I used thinned white glue to glue tissue on frame. Didn't taute tissue covering yet. I am going to spray a mist of water to tauten it, then will apply a light spray of clear acrylic.

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Post  akjgardner Sat Sep 09, 2023 7:08 am

Whenever we go camping , I take a Guillows 500 series kit to build . It’s very relaxing. I’ve been collecting Guillows laser cut kits for several years . The prices, like everything else has gone crazy.
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Post  Ken Cook Sat Sep 09, 2023 7:10 am

I have built several of the Guillows kits. Whenever I build them nowadays, I redesign them so that the wing is removable. I provide gussets for dowels to pass through and rubber band the wing on lightly. I fabricate some sort of key method so the wing is always orientated and I don't glue the dowels in the model. In the event of a spiral and the wing hits on the tip, the wing just ejects from the model usually without damage. On my Morse Scout, I didn't do this and I highly regret it because I can see carnage in the making.
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Post  getback Sat Sep 09, 2023 8:45 am

That's a really good idea Ken , I can see where that method of building where the wing can eject with out fault would value you, and to me building a wing or repair is intense .
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Post  Levent Suberk Sat Sep 09, 2023 9:08 am

akjgardner wrote:Whenever we go camping , I take a Guillows 500 series kit to build . It’s very relaxing. I’ve been collecting Guillows laser cut kits for several years . The prices, like everything else has gone crazy.

Right. Very relaxing building.

I bought the kit from a shop in İstanbul for 46.00 USD equivalent TL. They don't import anymore because prices are high. Only and available kit was Piper Cherokee.
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Post  Levent Suberk Sat Sep 09, 2023 9:14 am

Ken Cook wrote:             I have built several of the Guillows kits. Whenever I build them nowadays, I redesign them so that the wing is removable. I provide gussets for dowels to pass through and rubber band the wing on lightly. I fabricate some sort of key method so the wing is always orientated and I don't glue the dowels in the model. In the event of a spiral and the wing hits on the tip, the wing just ejects from the model usually without damage. On my Morse Scout, I didn't do this and I highly regret it because I can see carnage in the making.

I think this but because a small model, then didn't change wing design.

I added a balsa former to nose for easy mounting vac-u-form cowl. Rubber motor is short, I don't expect long flights. But building this kit is a kind of rememberance of childhood days. Very Happy
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Post  Levent Suberk Fri Sep 22, 2023 1:20 pm

Glide test is successful despite of tail heavy. Nose need several grams of plasteline or tack glue adhesive putty inside of cowl.

Wheel pants glued in their places.

I found that water slide decals are thick, not easy go on contoured parts and glue of decals is poor. Because of this I brushed white glue under decals.

A mist of white acrylic spray was enough. But I found that some spray brands sputtered paint sometimes. I don't rely on several brands of household spray paints. I cleaned nozzle and shake the paint can every time but paint sometimes sputtering. Perhaps paint is very thick, don't understood this.

Vacuform parts are difficult to align. I added plastic strips inside of wheel pants to align them.

Rubber motor is short, need to be longer. I dropped some silicone oil on propeller shaft.

Attaching clear acetate sheet window parts a little difficult, then I placed them with double sided tape, and reinforced edges with white glue. I recommend double side tape to install canopies, windows etc.

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Post  Ken Cook Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:24 pm

The model looks terrific whether it flies or not. It really looks classy.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:35 pm

Levent Suberk wrote:Building a Guillows Piper Cherokee 140 rubber powered model nowadays. It is my first rubber model since 1970s, didn't fly a rubber powered model for more than 50 years. Electric and control line instructions are omitted in Guillows kits, but .020 powered free flight instructions are included. I know that building these small stick and tissue scale models need more skill and patience than building big scale models with engines, so I think that scale models at this size aren't for kids.
Levent, that is a really sharp looking Cherokee, well finished and decorated to look like the real thing in life. Very Happy

I'd say that any of the kids who built stick and tissue rubber powered planes in the 1930's to 1970's would have no problem with the Guillow. But, we were of another generation that was taught to build things from bird houses to tree forts, dog houses, and etc.

That you mention I believe is true of many kids today, because few are brought up in a learning environment requiring building. Probably the closest is with Legos, but although it helps kids with motor skills and to develop their minds, they don't get to where they craft something from other materials requiring trimming and gluing, and covering.

I started building stick and tissue kits when I was 11 years old. By the time I was 12 years old when we moved to Hawaii, I had already built close to a dozen of these kits, mostly Comet, so being from a different era, I'd say a kid experienced already could easily build one of those. I had already built the Comet 15 inch (380 mm) wingspan Ryan ST Cabin, Bellanca Junior, Porterfield 65, Curtiss Robin, 18 inch (457 mm) North American P-51B, 32 inch (813 mm) Ed Lidgard Sparky cabin, 12 inch (305 mm) Fokker DVII and Spad VII, 20 inch (508 mm) Scientific Paul Del Gatto Cessna 180, 18 inch (457 mm) all sheet balsa Stinson L-5 Sentinel, and a Scientific built-up with plastic turtle deck 18 inch (457 mm) Scientific Musciano Grumman F6F Hellcat with .020 Pee Wee.

In reality we were of a different generation that was encouraged to make and create, not simply users of ARF or RTF type stuff. Check with own eyes
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Post  Levent Suberk Sat Sep 23, 2023 1:11 am

Thanks Ken Very Happy

As we get older, we become perfectionists? Very Happy Very Happy
You are right to say " In reality we were of a different generation that was encouraged to make and create, not simply users of ARF or RTF type stuff" Very Happy
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Post  Ken Cook Sat Sep 23, 2023 6:16 am

I was probably around 6 when I started to more or less help my dad. He would instruct me and I would install. I think back on those times and it's like it was yesterday. He showed me how to size up the sticks over the plan and cut. Certainly not as accurate as one would appreciate but the idea was there. I don't remember the plane but it was similar to the cub. It was covered in a light blue tissue with dark blue on the wings and a white vacuum formed nose. That really was the best rubber power model I owned for years. It flew terrific. It went only up so high and would circle and come down within 50 yds of me.

             Later on, he gave me a Curtis Jenny. It was the larger Comet kits. He said it's no different then building a small model, just read. It turned out very well and indeed it did fly. I'm certain today, I could've made it fly better. The fact it worked out of the box for me made me ecstatic. I could have 20 people around me and if I mention stick and tissue model, they would all look at me puzzled.

Guillows used to have a page for modelers who would send in their finished models. My friend Johnny Recker built a absolutely stunning ME-109. That plane was on their website for some time. It was powered with a Thunder Tiger .10. It needed the weight in the nose but it was fabulous. He never wanted to fly it but we talked him into it on occasion. Johnny was a just a regular Joe, he saw us flying and wanted to try it. He probably only built a few models in his time but his scale work, painting, attention to detail was so over the top.

When I see these models, regardless of build quality, they have a place in my heart for all that build them. Whether they're modified, rubber, etc, it really is a true testament to those that attempted and completed them. To witness a box of sticks come together is just awe inspiring when your staring down on your table with the x-acto in your hand.
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Post  getback Sat Sep 23, 2023 6:27 am

Looking really Nice ! Are you going to make the rubber bigger or longer for a longer flight ? The stick and tissue builds do take a lot more skill that I don't think the younger generation has from lack of practice, but they do have finger skills with there phone and playing games Huh...
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Post  Levent Suberk Sat Sep 23, 2023 9:50 am

getback wrote:Looking really Nice ! Are you going to make the rubber bigger or longer for a longer flight ? The stick and tissue builds do take a lot more skill that I don't think the younger generation has from lack of practice, but they do have finger skills with there phone and playing games Huh...  

I don't want to change rubber motor because fuselage may be crush after 500 600 turns with four strands of rubber. It is two strands in original.

When I was a kid, I crushed two or three models by winding the rubber motor too much Very Happy
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Post  Levent Suberk Sat Sep 23, 2023 10:08 am

Ken, I didn't know that Guillows has a page for builders photos. I am going to send a photo to their Instagram page.

I searched the archive but didn't find your friend's model, sure it was a beautifully made one.
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Post  Ken Cook Sat Sep 23, 2023 10:37 am

I would fly at a control line club which was almost 2 hrs from me. I believe it could be the oldest control line club in the USA. Nowadays, there's little to no activity. From what I've been told, the lease for the circles are going to expire in the next two to three years. I would see old friends once a yr attending this meet. The Ringmaster Fly A Thon always took place on the same weekend we would meet up. I recall the first Ringmaster Fly A Thon and this was in around the time I recall my friend John flying his model. Man how time has passed as I believe this about 16 years back. I believe Guillows was just beginning to offer laser cut kits.
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Post  roddie Sat Sep 23, 2023 1:22 pm

Hi Levent, Congratulations on finally building another rubber-powered model after so many years! You obviously still have the building skills required intact!!
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Post  rdw777 Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:21 pm

Beautiful job on the Cherokee Levent….. There’s just something about pulling the parts out of the box, Studying and comparing to the plan…. A great expectation, And yours turned out very nice….. My entire kit collection consists of two Guillows model, Yours makes me want to start one….

Kind of embarrassed to show this ,  A 3/4 size replica (33” span) of Dick Korda’s 1939 Wakefield winner….. It was in a box in one of my Dad’s barn’s, I had forgotten all about it…. Learned alot about rubber FF from this model…… It had a single blade folding prop….I have a photo somewhere of my son watching it circle overhead when he was about five…. He’s 38 now….Guillows Piper Chrokee Rubber Powered  21f85410
.The plan survived, Maybe I’ll make another one of these days …
Took a couple of photos and gave it a dignified disposal….
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