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Post  rsv1cox Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:43 pm

It's been a nautical day, from cleaning out the pond behind my house (potential place to runs boats) to the arrival of Robert's Enterprise model "Surf-Skimmer" and the Atwood/Wen Mac outboard an ebay find.  Robert's long-time owned boat has seen activity as described in an accompanying note.  The note and the box art featuring a Space Bug Jr alone is enough to make it into my display case.  Robert included the electric motor and the accompanying hardware.  I'm looking forward to checking it out.

It's been a nautical day P1016694


The Atwood/Wen Mac engine/outboard...(Bill Atwood designed the motor for Wen Mac) is interesting.  The cylinder threads in the case are not continuous,  instead they are interrupted by three clear spaces, maybe/probably intake flutes.  I only have one Atwood engine and have never taken it apart, so I don't know. The #2 Cox cylinder that came with it will never fit.  Anyone know about Atwoods?  

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Post  rdw777 Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:02 pm

Glad you got the boat OK…. it needed a new home with a little TLC and to give it a little attention…. Glad you’re enjoying the nautical side…. You know ours is a transportation hobby, ….Planes, Trains, and Automobiles…. Might as well be boats too!!… And if you have a pond nearby, More the better!!!…. I expect before too long we’ll see a smoky noise maker or two skimming across that pond…. Sounds like a lot of fun Very Happy

Robert
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Post  rsv1cox Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:54 pm

Sometimes you just get lucky.

While going through my Wen Mac Testors junk engines and parts I found a very nice two hole mount case Atwood with piston, head and needle that is a direct replacement for the boat engine.  I just have to do a swap.  

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And, Roberts boat retains the original Space Bug Jr. mount.  I wonder if I can restore it to it's original configuration.


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Post  rdw777 Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:12 pm

I bet you can too Bob, You’ll probably have to remove the pad mounts for the K&O Electric motor, but there just balsa and shouldn’t give much trouble…. You may also have to change the drive shat angle to suit the engine mount but that shouldn’t be much trouble either….. Just fill any unused holes with epoxy…. You’ll need a flywheel and coupling but I’m sure you’ll eventually source those….. Would be great to find a water jacket for the head, Will just take some research…. It will look good with an engine in it Very Happy
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Post  getback Fri Dec 01, 2023 6:58 am

A boating you will go ! More cool stuff , and amazing you had a drop in replacement for the Atwood Outboard . Yeah the boat would look better with the space bug Jr. in it and no R/C to deal with . Have Fun !! Rudolph Lighting The Tree
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Post  rsv1cox Fri Dec 01, 2023 12:33 pm

"A boating you will go !"  

I could put that to music Eric.  Smile  Where is that musical note icon............

The Surf Skimmers box, Robert's note, and the plans have found a home.

It's been a nautical day P1016701

Getting ready to get ready to do due diligence on the Skimmer.

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Atwood is less cooperative.  Flywheels machine screw is stripped and frozen.  Might be aligator vice grip time.

It's been a nautical day P1016700
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Post  rdw777 Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:27 pm

Surf Skimmer’s box adds a nice splash of color to the display Bob, A fine place for it Very Happy
I know Skimmer’s firewall is notched for needle access in the side position…. I think it’s fine to orient the needle that way… Actually best….. I noticed the tank bowl on mine is notched on the outside of the venturi tube…. It’s small and hard to see…. When fuel nipples are up on the tank back this notch is aligned with the fuel outlet downstream of the needle on the tank back with side oriented needle…. My SBJ will run 1:45 and
leave only a few drops in the bottom of the tank (see photo)…..I didn’t realize the tanks were translucent…. Pretty cool to be able to see fuel level …

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Post  rsv1cox Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:36 pm

That is strange Robert.

I looked at three (just got the one on the right today) and I could not see it.  I had to put on my strongest readers and hold each under my bench magnifier to see it.  Even then not noticable, only felt by a fingernail falling into the notch.  None as as well defined as yours.  You may have discovered something.  

I'm happy that you got it running and running well.  What fuel are you using?  

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Someday we have to have a discussion about what's in that cup.........serious stuff in there.

It's been a nautical day P1016703

LED in the tank it would make a great Christmas tree decoration.
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Post  rdw777 Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:23 pm

When I first got it going and it was still a little balky I was using Fitz Fuels 24%…. After some further reed cleaning and tank sealing it starts easy and runs great on Fitz 15%….
One of the neatest things at least to me is its ability to hold a very steady needle setting… I set it on a rich 4 cycle and it will hold a steady 11K with a Cox 6-3 for the entire tank, Only leaning out the last 2-3 seconds…. Or you can go ahead and peak it out and it will hold that steady too…..It’s very obedient to wherever you put the needle and stays there… I prefer running it slower and not stress the three piece piston and other parts…. It nearly acts like a little four stroke… Sounds pretty cool too….Maybe something old timer-ish for it….I think that ease of slow speed start/run will be helpful for your boat starting under no load too….

Some of that old hardware is electrical…. The metal steering wheel rotates and I think is a four position switch…. Those pieces of aluminum wire are for the threaded stand-offs for decoration on a deck….That stuff was given to me when they closed the hobby shop here….Looking forward to how you boat progresses Thumbs Up
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Post  davidll1984 Sat Dec 02, 2023 8:15 am

I have here a .049 atwood but missing a connecting rod the piston is stuck in the cylinder it's a shame I'm missing several pieces It's been a nautical day 17015212
It could surely be used for parts
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Post  rsv1cox Sun Dec 03, 2023 8:18 am

Evaluating Roberts boat this morning.  

3/48's work well to mount.  Top one's easy install, bottoms probably not so but possible.  I have been investigating flywheels, Cox and otherwise.  HO gauge locomotives too, lot's of flywheel were used in them.  Might even have one on-hand that would fit.  I may have to file a flat on the Bugs prop shaft for the flex shafts set screw and move the prop shaft back to it's original position?  How did you steer this thing Robert?  I have micro servos....rudder?  

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Heading out to the garage to give this a Berryman's soak, Simple Green, hot water rinse.  

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The spare Atwood is not a direct swap.  I will have to use the original case but the new cylinder/head/piston will screw right in.  I will have to remove the broken needle in the original case.

It's been a nautical day P1016714

I had to grind off the head of the frozen and rusted shaft machine screw. A new 4/40 replaces it.

It's been a nautical day P1016713
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Post  Ken Cook Sun Dec 03, 2023 8:37 am

My buddy at the field insisted on running the outboard at the field one day. It wouldn't start so he used the electric starter. I told him that these carry some merit in terms of value but that means nothing to him. Now he has a broken Atwood. I hope he enjoyed it.
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Post  OVERLORD Sun Dec 03, 2023 10:38 am

Bob, the engine and prop shaft should be in line. If the frame for the engine is fitted correctly, you should reposition the prop shaft to get it in line. That's how it was originally. Look at the Surf Skimmer instruction sheet:

It's been a nautical day S-l12012

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When taking measurements from the drawing, you can determine the exact spot where the stern tube goes through the hull.

The longitudinal section blown up.

It's been a nautical day Img_2024
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Post  rdw777 Sun Dec 03, 2023 11:10 am

Bob, Looks good with the SBJ in it, The engine it was always supposed to have! We always ran the boat in a round metal stock tank and it just rubbed against the side…. I’m sure it’s still scuffed up where it rode the side Very Happy ….I thought about making it r/c one day but never did …. Would be easy with today’s small electronics….

I agree with OL the shaft should be better aligned with the engine…. You might even see on the bottom bottom a different exit point it had at one time…. Several electric motors were tried in it….. Wouldn’t be any problem to punch a new hole and fill the old one…. Those little spring couplings were meant for electric motors…. I’ve seen photos of 1/2 A boat hardware that was more of a universal joint…. One thing I tried on the stronger electric motors  you might think about was stiff vinyl tubing for a coupling… You might have to add some bushing to the drive shaft to get the diameters to match….
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Post  rsv1cox Sun Dec 03, 2023 12:35 pm

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Post  roddie Sun Dec 03, 2023 2:18 pm


You should bid on that Skimmer Robert! One of those other SBJ's would have a home.. plus you and Mark could race/cruise them together. You just cleaned-out the pond in the lower-fourty.. right?? Laughing .... which will be a perfect spot to run your boats!
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Post  rsv1cox Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:09 pm

Smile Smile your wish to my ears roddie, I made the seller an offer which he just accepted.

No windshield or accessories but Robert sent me spares.

It's been a nautical day Ss_lon13

Hmm, beginning to think that Enterprise just included the celophane windshield and not the frame which Robert added later.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:39 pm

Bob, it closed and he readvertised it, US $149.95 or Best Offer, ends Dec-20 or before if sold. Very Happy

Ebay: Rare1950 Anderson Spitfire Tri-Pacer Ready To Fly Gas Powered Model Airplane Cox
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I thought it quite interesting that unlike a kit build, this RTF balsa edges on all surfaces including flying and fuselage are simply squared off, no rounded corners or tapered wing trailing edges. Also, it is a 'round the Pole type flyer, the stabilizer has no moving elevator like for control line use. And, it does come with the Spitzy .045 engine per THIS LISTING. Very Happy
It's been a nautical day 2023-117

I'd have to pass, not for me, but as they say, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. "Age before beauty. Very Happy Laughing Check with own eyes I Love This Forum!
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Post  rsv1cox Sun Dec 03, 2023 6:36 pm

That is one ugly model George.........but here is another:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155871121002?hash=item244aa48e6a:g:sHQAAOSwtqtlR9Iz

Both are interesting enough to be interesting but not to buy.  

I finished the Atwood outboard but may have to disassemble again.  I think I missed the detent in the cam that the extended crank pin fits into.  Turns the prop but only so far.  Got to try it again, maybe let Mark do it.  It's a delicate operation that takes steady hands.  Got to make a proper stand for it.  Installed a new short ASP no idle bar plug.  

As bought:

It's been a nautical day Atwood10


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I looked at this picture and thought the venturi hole was sticking up.  I will have to check it.  Simple to tap it out, readjust and tap it back in again.  
It's never over until it's over....Sad

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I kept the Atwood airplane motor intact and used the tool marked cylinder/head instead.  But I turned it eliminating most of the marks.  Turned out better than the photos show.

I tried to save the original NVA.  Couldn't so I went to spares.  Same venturi's.  Aligned with the intake down draft by marking the opposite side and tapped in with a tapping hammer.  A lot more fun to do than the K&B's which required nothing.  

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Different Atwoods.  Intrupted cylinder threads.  Very easy to cross-thread.

It's been a nautical day P1016724
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Post  roddie Sun Dec 03, 2023 8:16 pm

Some thoughts Robert; You mentioned 3-48 machine-screws working for the "top-two" engine-mounting lugs. I'm assuming that there are four #3-48 blind-nuts behind the firewall? If it was fab'd around the Cox engine.. maybe the panel was pre-drilled to accept them?? If there are blind-nuts in the bottom two holes; you might consider socket-head screws.. installed using a 5/64" hex "ball-end" driver for 3-48's. This will greatly reduce the effort in getting those bottom screws "started".. and not to mention; securely tightened.. which is what you want.

What's the thread-pitch on the engine's crankshaft? "Dumas" (the model-boat Co.) used to offer drive-line kits for the conversion of 1/2A (Cox namely...) glow-engines for marine use. One such kit (H5-2306) includes a flywheel, a brass 5-40 threaded u-joint, stuffing-tube, strut and rudder, a 5-40 threaded steel stub-screw, a steel drive-shaft, steel prop-drive pins and 1" diameter plastic 2-blade props. I'm told that the "flywheel" Dumas provides for 1/2A use; has a center-bore for a #6 machine-screw. If used with the 5-40 threaded u-joint/stub-screw; the flywheel's center-hole should be properly "bushed" to prevent excessive "run-out" (vibration) causing premature-wear to the engines case at the output-point. Apparently the Dumas flywheels are pre-drilled #6.. because Cox's .09 engines utilize the larger 6-32 machine-screw/prop-screw.  Huh... ...

I'm not familiar with the Cox SBJ .049 engine.. but if it utilizes a 5-40 thread on the prop-drive/output-shaft; then the Dumas 2306 running-hdwe. kit would be all that's required for free-running your Skimmer.. EDIT: and maybe a pair of 5-40 hex-nuts used as jam-nuts.

You'll want to remember to install a "drive-belt" to engage the flywheel's pulley-groove BEFORE installation of the drive-shaft.. or any type of "pillow-block" support rearward the flywheel. There are options for starting the engine. A "belt" around the flywheel's pulley which engages a pulley on a hand-held elec. starter is one way. I notice that some 1/2A engine marine flywheels have a "knurled" outer diameter.. which would suggest a "friction-wheel" rotational cranking-action by applying pressure via a rubber wheel or tire using the elec. motor .. rather than tensioning a belt with it.  Huh... Either method requires some RIGID support around that flywheel.. in the form of a pillow-block bushing/bearing, to absorb the torque-load of starting an IC engine.

The Dumas kits for 1/2A glow-engines recommend their 1" dia. plastic (Nylon?) 2-blade propeller for boats with .049 engines.

Here's what the Dumas #3001 1" dia. replacement prop for the .049 glow engine looks like.

It's been a nautical day 9-1-1410

It's been a nautical day 9-1-1411

It's pretty small... Keep in mind that 1" diameter equals 25.40mm. Dumas does not list their propeller's pitch.. but if you were to assemble a drive having a metric propeller.. this at least gives you a "diameter" to consider/look for.

CEF member 1/2Anut (Brad) has TONS of experience running these boats.. and can surely offer more specific/defined information on running them.


Last edited by roddie on Sun Dec 03, 2023 8:25 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : added 5-40 hex-nuts to the recipe)
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:19 am

Thanks roddie for the information.

I just used 3/48's with nuts, temporary - later I will add lock washers and maybe a drop of CA on all four.

The prop nut for the Space Bug Jr. is a 5/40.  

I searched the internet for that Dumas H5-2306 kit and came up dry, I also checked ebay, Amazon and hobby supplies.  All either sold out or could not find.

The Enterprise engine mount is confusing.  The box says that the SB Jr. is already installed but I have seen ad's for it in the box hanging loose.   This one I have coming shows it appearing not to be cemented in or ever having a SB Jr attached.

It's been a nautical day Entz_b10

Maybe Brad will check in sometime.

Bob
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Dec 04, 2023 12:11 pm

rsv1cox wrote:That is one ugly model George.........but here is another: https://www.ebay.com/itm/155871121002  Both are interesting enough to be interesting but not to buy.
It's been a nautical day 2023-118

Yes, can understand why, for $200 + $102 shipping (why so high?) + tax = $327 US is a bit too much coin to part with, and especially with a nothing fancy Cox product engine. Besides, I already have an unbuilt HOB Stealth Sport kit.
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:17 pm

Some sellers let ebay set the shipping costs if they provide dimentions and weight.  When I was selling I always set my own rates based on past information usually less than I what I expected costs to be.
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Post  NEW222 Mon Dec 04, 2023 7:53 pm

Here, here..... Many years old, but yet to be finished and fly. While not having the original engine recommended I was thinking of my Golden Bee. But as the wing is covered in doculam already, if I put an electron powerplant, I don't need to seal the wood from fuel.......

It's been a nautical day 20231210
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Post  rsv1cox Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:12 am

Well I'll be darned Chancey, it is alive.  I never thought I would see another.  Beautiful job.  Are you going to put the pilot guy on it?  

I built a stand for the Atwood.  I duplicated the sellers design using the K&B.  He used 1/4" plywood, I used Luan.  That aerosol Helmsman can untouched for years sprayed just fine.  K&B twin came from a museum in San Diego.  

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It's been a nautical day P1016726

The K&B is obviously the better engine but the Atwood probably went for less money.

It's been a nautical day P1016727
It's been a nautical day P1016728
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