Re: It's been a nautical day

rsv1cox Fri Dec 08, 2023 6:39 pm

Flywheel on the Spitfire boat looks a lot like the one on the Cox powered shovel nosed.

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I'm still looking.

Oldenginerod Sat Dec 09, 2023 2:47 am

Darn Bob. I had one of these a few years back.

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I had no need for it and think I gave it away.
Here's the original label.

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I ended up trying to make a reproduction label.

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Rod.

rsv1cox Sat Dec 09, 2023 7:08 am

Thanks Rod, looks like Leroy had all the bases covered.

I imagine that Enterprise probably made up about 500 - 1000 Surf Skimmers and ordered a like amount of Space Bug Jr.'s and flywheels from Cox to outfit them. Fifty cents, probably a couple of bucks today. I wonder how many are laying around old hobby shops and tool boxes. Catalog #330, I will be searching that number for awhile.

getback Sat Dec 09, 2023 8:39 am

They display nicely Bob , good to hear from you Chancy Rudolph

OVERLORD Sat Dec 09, 2023 2:57 pm

Have a look at this ebay sale. I have this on my watch list for a long time but it's too expensive with shipping:

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/394715055569

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Looks like the flywheel you need, and comes with a constant velocity joint! The flywheel is mounted the wrong wy around though.

rsv1cox Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:14 pm

Strange lieven, everything in French but the seller is in Minnesota USA. I didn't even argue the price. I took two years of high school French but I hit "Translate" the easy way out. I never did do a search on Cox boat engine like I should have. I have an example now. Maybe I can find a local machine shop to make me another.

Do you still have that neat red and white snowmobile?

Bob

OVERLORD Sat Dec 09, 2023 6:14 pm

Bob, that's because I always look on the French ebay site, but you can find the same item when checking out ebay.com. Yes, still got that.

rsv1cox Sat Dec 09, 2023 6:48 pm

OVERLORD wrote:Bob, that's because I always look on the French ebay site, but you can find the same item when checking out ebay.com. Yes, still got that.

One of the nicest examples that I have ever seen. You should post pictures for the new members. If I did a search I could probably find your original post but thta's a few years back. We might get a few inches of snow over the next couple of days. A dusting yesterday.

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Ah, found it:

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t12566-snowplane-test-on-snow?highlight=snow

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getback Sun Dec 10, 2023 6:46 am

I remember the snowplane that was a cool build ,, getting some snow Clean my glasses

65F yesterday was nice today rain all day nite too then cool /cold off again , working on a chainsaw on the dining room table today tongue

robot797 Tue Dec 12, 2023 9:12 am

I really need to make a good video about my cox boat

roddie Tue Dec 12, 2023 9:40 pm

Robert, The Dumas kit #2314 is still available directly from Dumas for $35.00 +tax and shipping. I put the same link and photo in the SBJr. thread.

https://www.dumasproducts.com/?product=running-hardware-kit-2314-for-1209-1410-1411-1422

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Propellers are available separately. They are plastic, **left-hand**.. and have a 1" diameter/1.25" pitch for the .049 engines. (**They are left-hand to allow use on FRV engines.) and cost $1.00/ea.

https://www.dumasproducts.com/?product=prop-3001-for-049-size-engine-1-8-hole

Nowhere on their site do they list the flywheel alone unfortunately.. but I would give them a call to ask them about that.

Another thing to consider.. is to install a thrust-washer between the engine's case and the drive-washer.. because of the "pushing-force" exerted by a stern-drive marine propeller as opposed to the "pulling-force" of an air-screw.

Oldenginerod Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:56 am

https://www.ebay.com/itm/355126443014?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28

rsv1cox Wed Dec 13, 2023 6:57 am

Thanks roddie and Rod. Bought the flywheel Rod. Holding off on the Dumas kit roddie until I see what is in the parts that I have coming. I don't want to get into this boat stuff to deeply. My Navy time not with-standing...... Smile

Ken Cook Wed Dec 13, 2023 5:25 pm

My son picked this up about 10 years ago. Seeing this post made me want to put it into something like your doing Bob. I would love a Scientific boat or something similar like that balsa job your doing. I believe this is a Dumas shaft. What is the piece where it exits the boat? Is this what is referred to as the stuffing box? Or do you just slip the shaft through some tubing and epoxy the tubing into the boat. I have no idea. I suppose this requires regular lubrication?

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rsv1cox Wed Dec 13, 2023 6:33 pm

Ken Cook wrote: My son picked this up about 10 years ago. Seeing this post made me want to put it into something like your doing Bob. I would love a Scientific boat or something similar like that balsa job your doing. I believe this is a Dumas shaft. What is the piece where it exits the boat? Is this what is referred to as the stuffing box? Or do you just slip the shaft through some tubing and epoxy the tubing into the boat. I have no idea. I suppose this requires regular lubrication?

Good questions Ken, hopefully someone with knowledge will check in. Better picture showing those Dumas couplings. Maybe one of those "piece where it exits the boat" too. The early closed end Cox wrench is a bonus along with the .22 caliber cleaning patch tool. Smile

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Bad part is this box of stuff is lost somewhere between West Virginia and California. It should have been here two days ago and tracking shows nada.

roddie Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:21 am

Hey Robert (Bob).. Good that you were able to source the flywheel alone. Robert (rdw777) mentioned having 5-40 hex-nuts. I have a surplus of them and can also send you some.

Here's the period-correct L.M. Cox .049 marine conversion kit (#330) to look for. The special "nut" accepts a short piece of "plastic tube" which serves as a U-joint for the drive-shaft.

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You'll want to keep the engine as cool as possible. Do you have a Cox heat-sink in your parts box? The "Sandblaster" model came with one and the replacement part is cat.#8477 or it can have #1970 cast into it.

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This Cox "Sea Bee" has that heat-sink.. but I don't think it came with one.

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Then there's an actual water-jacket that was offered by Dumas.. (#3601) but it might be hard to find.

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Regarding Ken's questions about the drive-shaft; there's generally what's called a "stuffing-box" (tube) which the drive-shaft (or a flex-cable) fits inside. That tube gets rigidly-fastened inside the hull (usually with epoxy glue) and exits through the bottom/center of the hull near or through the transom... and keeps the internal shaft from whipping. The tube is kept packed with grease to provide lubrication for the shaft or cable.. and also helps to minimize the ingress of water.

There may also be what's called a "strut".. which provides external-support to the stuffing-tube. The strut can be attached either to the transom or to the bottom of the hull. A strut can also serve as a fixed-rudder, to help keep the craft tracking straight; minimizing "crabbing" or prop-walk.

The drive kit that Ken shows below, looks to me like it would need a stuffing-tube.

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Using a "strut" isn't always necessary. I didn't use one when I built my Dumas "Short Stuff" (Deep Vee 10) circa 1992.

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Ken, Here's a web link to some offerings from Dumas that may interest you. The four 18" length kits for .049 power are all $55.. Santa

The "Half Pint" cabin cruiser is the same size as the Short-Stuff kit that I built. I would have preferred it.. but couldn't find one back in "92". Dumas' description; "The kit consists of birch, poplar ply and mahogany veneer die-cuts and builds into a nice little model with lots of exposed natural mahogany."

https://www.dumasproducts.com/?product_cat=only-direct-from-dumas

rsv1cox Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:13 am

Thanks roddie, you always come up with important applicable information.

I have a cashe of #5 nuts and bolts in various lengths that I keep in a plastic compartment container that I keep just to service my small model engine affliction. I also have one or two of those heat sinc's.

That box of parts shows some life. This morning they turned up in Baltimore.

706jim Thu Dec 14, 2023 10:00 am

The more modern setup using a flex shaft and transom mounted rudder/propeller mounting make a lot of sense for simplicity of setup. However, the traditional fixed shaft as seen in the last plan image just looks more "traditional" and to me, more "authentic".
Going back to the times when these boats were made, the only real option you had would be to try and get them to run in circles. Radio control was either expensive or non existent.
We used to attach a fishing line to our boats to get them back when running on open water.

rdw777 Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:47 am

Glad you got that flywheel with the Sterling stamp Bob…. Looks kind of period correct for an old boat….Also good Roddie found the Dumas hardware still exists, I would have thought it would have been gone a long time ago….. Looks like the Dumas hardware is basically 1/8”….Surf Skimmer’s was a bit more “economical “ with the drive shaft at about.080”….I think with engines like SBJ they could get away with a little lighter due to power output…..Roddie posted somewhere about using a thrust washer on the engine, I agree because it’s acting as a pusher…..Would be cool to find one of those Dumas or Cox cast cooling jackets but may be difficult…. An alternative could be soft brass tube coiled around the head….. If I bend something like that I stuff the tube full of thin strands of copper wire from a lamp cord to keep it from kinking…..

rsv1cox Fri Dec 15, 2023 12:45 pm

New stuff in today. Babe Bee in nice shape, Infant not so. Perhaps more fun to recover. SBJr. Box, instructions, and original unmarked Cox wrench. Wheel pant? engine cowl? Tin not plastic. I don't know!..

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Infant. Wow! Beat but has a needle and turns over with compression.

rdw777 Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:00 pm

Fun grab bag of parts to go thru Bob….Looks like maybe even another flywheel on the little K & B?….. I think your K & B may be an .035 due to the five fin head?….. I bought an Infant.020 a few months back and has a six fin head….. Cute little engines regardless and the .035 may be more of a rare bird than an .020…..My Infant has an intact plug but no luck in running it…. Will pop and spit while trying to start but that’s about it…. My diagnosis right or wrong is even though the plug element is intact it’s not in good enough shape to run the engine….. The element is ashy grey in color, not bright….. I’m thinking these elements may have been plated rather than alloyed thru the wire and too much of the plating is missing….. Maybe some more experience with them will comment….

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Oldenginerod Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:16 pm

rdw777 wrote:Fun grab bag of parts to go thru Bob….Looks like maybe even another flywheel on the little K & B?….. I think your K & B may be an .035 due to the five fin head?….. I bought an Infant.020 a few months back and has a six fin head….. Cute little engines regardless and the .035 may be more of a rare bird than an .020…..My Infant has an intact plug but no luck in running it…. Will pop and spit while trying to start but that’s about it…. My diagnosis right or wrong is even though the plug element is intact it’s not in good enough shape to run the engine….. The element is ashy grey in color, not bright….. I’m thinking these elements may have been plated rather than alloyed thru the wire and too much of the plating is missing….. Maybe some more experience with them will comment….

My .035 was the same. Needed maximum current to get the plug glowing bright enough to fire off. It did eventually keep running but only with the battery still connected. I ran a couple of tanks through it and eventually could get it to keep running with the battery disconnected. I suspect that the filament may have been contaminated and cleaned up after a bit of running. I actually only tried running it once and haven't got back to it again to see if it fires up any easier now. It would be great if someone could come up with plug that could be made fit for these engines. PAL reproduced the .020 Infant but I suspect that the insert is too small for the .035.

rdw777 Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:03 pm

Sounds like you had just a bit better luck than I did Rod…..The little progress you had is interesting and does sound like it cleaned up a bit due to the running….. Just for information’s sake the .020 plug is .615” overall height and main barrel .295” dia… If you wanted to compare…..Yes, Agree it would be great if some of these were fabbed up to get these historical little engines going again….

rsv1cox Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:27 pm

Thanks for the Infant education guys.

Yes, V groove pulley flywheel/string starter. Maybe a belt drive for something? It doesn't look like there is enough shaft space there to house a propeller. It get's a Berrymans bath tomorrow, maybe it will clean the element also? A little light touch on the drill press with some 400 grit and fine steel wool. Remove the backplate and see what I have. As I mentioned it turns over with compression. I can see Ken as upset as I am regarding the tool marks.

Got my money back on it already on speculation. Someones box of treasures perhaps tucked away for years. SB Jr. circ 1953. Wonder where the engine is, some landfill attached to a broken Scientific hollow log.

rdw777 Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:54 pm

It get's a Berrymans bath tomorrow, maybe it will clean the element also?

I can’t vouch for the practice since I haven’t seen it done before….
but in looking up how to clean platinum I found that it would decompose hydrogen peroxide….. So I tried it on the Infant plug since it wasn’t working anyway….. The photos show an old but known good Cox .020 head an the Infant plug…. At least a gauge maybe by how many gas bubbles being formed….

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