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So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home Empty So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home

Post  rsv1cox Mon Jan 08, 2024 4:58 pm

I think Guillows but I'm not sure. 14" wing spread sounds about right.  The first model I ever built back when I could barely reach up to the table.  

ebay sale with the bidding starting at $4.95 or "Make an offer."  Sent him a "returning customer" offer of $12.00 which they accepted.  Shipping is cheap.  

This auction is for a PILOT FIGURE of unknown of manufacture in his crashed and broken old control line stick and tissue model airplane. The broken Spad XIII fighter bears the insignia of the famous WW-I Hat In The Ring squadron of Captain Edward Vernon Richenbacher. The c/l Spad model is a wrecked hulk but the pilot would love to take to the skies again in any 1/2A sized model airplane of your choice after you extract, clean and re-install him. This Spad was originally a 14" wingspan model and I could only guess as to a possible manufacturer of the pilot figure as being Wen Mac, Cox, Goldberg, or maybe OK Cub but am just guessing. All of the broken Spad model airplane parts and pieces shown in the listing will be shipped

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home Junk_s11
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home Junk_s10
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home Spad_p10
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home Spad_p10


Rubber powered retrofitted for C/L?
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Post  rdw777 Mon Jan 08, 2024 6:04 pm

I like it Bob, And perfect for your kind of restores…. I would like try to something like that too one of these days….. You’ll be reaching for that scrap box for sure!!…Yes, Best guess it’s a Guillows (or similar) rubber power converted to CL….. Might have even been on the plans as an option…. Looks like a Bee footprint on the firewall….. The way it’s broken says that it flew, Or at least tried to…. Would be nice if you find out what it is for sure and could get the plans for reference for it…
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Post  rsv1cox Wed Jan 10, 2024 9:09 am

I'm having doubts about this being a Quillows model. The bulges at the top of the cowl do not match up. If it isn't Guillows, then what is it?

I agree Robert, looks like a Babe Bee .049, but could be a Pee Wee too. Seller marked - Shipped. I hope that he packed it carefully. Smile

Found my Quillows model.

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016951
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016953
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016952
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Post  rdw777 Wed Jan 10, 2024 9:22 am

You may be right Bob, At 14” span more likely a PeeWee….The more I look at it the more I don’t know….Definitely a kit with all the moulded pieces…. But maybe purposely for
CL, Not a converted stick and tissue job….Maybe an old Scientific or more obscure, short lived company?….. I’m following your detective work…..
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Post  rsv1cox Fri Jan 12, 2024 2:10 pm

rdw777 wrote:You may be right Bob, At 14” span more likely a PeeWee….The more I look at it the more I don’t know….Definitely a kit with all the moulded pieces…. But maybe purposely for
CL, Not a converted stick and tissue job….Maybe an old Scientific or more obscure, short lived company?….. I’m following your detective work…..

Got it today along with the parts ebay buy.  The parts are all .020 and all the cases are holed.    The airplane seller did not include the firewall a most important piece, but it has to be a Cox Pee Wee or .010, this thing is tiny. But my Guillows kit is going to be no help.  

The elevator control rod is internal to the fuselage and works.  The wheels have rubber tires not wooden like Guillows models and the wings are built up and tissue covered.

Picked out the engine that I'm going to use.

 So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016955
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016954
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Post  rdw777 Fri Jan 12, 2024 4:22 pm

That one’s going to take some TLC Bob….Looks like the fuse has sheet sides but stringer and tissue top and bottom?…. Interesting….Too bad he didn’t send the firewall, But looks like rectangle in shape so maybe not too hard to replicate….There’s two 14” Spads in OZ but they’re both stick tissue- rubber FF…. But maybe they can help with outlines for parts?
Thanks for the update(s)  Very Happy

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=13856


https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=13751

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home C3144210
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Post  rsv1cox Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:53 pm

Yes, sheet sides but stringer with tissue top and bottom.  

I did find the firewall, it was stuck right on the larger piece in plain sight.  I think the Pee Wee was positioned cylinder down as the hole in the top of the fuelage is not large enough to fit a head through.  I would pivot 180.  One mount is broken off, but I have others.

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016957
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016959
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016960
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016958

This case sent me to Dannels/Sitter book:

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home Scan_316

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016965
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016964

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016961
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016962
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016963

This hobby always sends me off in a new direction, got to find one now. "Used in the Camero and GTO cars."
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Post  rdw777 Sat Jan 13, 2024 6:34 pm

Interesting case on the .020, Have never seen even a photo of that one….I’m curious if the crankshaft is the same as standard?….. I know some of the .049 car engines had a larger diameter crankshaft to help with that kind of load….
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Post  roddie Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:09 pm

Yes.. I thought that might be a car engine Robert. It's missing a flywheel/gear that looks like it was just pressed-onto the splined crankshaft; same as a prop-drive plate is. As is the engine's bottom-end; that flywheel would be as rare as hen's teeth to find by itself...
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Post  roddie Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:27 pm

I have some photos that could help in your searching the web for identification/tracking-down parts for the two .020 powered cars. I won't be held accountable for any "reckless spending" moving forward on your part...  Laughing

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home 1968-c10

That's your crankcase.. for sure.

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home _020_f10

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home _020_f11

It's got a non-anodized Pee Wee .020 tank-bowl.. and backplate/NVA.. as far as I can tell. It's the bottom and front-end that make that engine special.

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home S-l16021

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home 1_f64510

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home 020_ca11

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home 154-210

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home Images11

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home 18057211

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home Cox_1912

These are just some images that I've gathered off the web.. to help familiarize myself with these cars.
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Post  rsv1cox Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:51 am

Thanks for checking that out roddie. Another thing of note, the glow head is knurled, high compression.

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016968
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016969
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Post  OVERLORD Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:40 am

Bob, all 020 heads are knurled. Nothing to do with high compression.
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Post  rsv1cox Sun Jan 14, 2024 9:40 am

OVERLORD wrote:Bob, all 020 heads are knurled. Nothing to do with high compression.

Hi Lieven, I have a few .020 heads both new in the package and used, a little over half are not knurled.  I checked Sitter and he is not specific.  Can you point me to text on  this?  

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016972
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016973
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016971
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016974

Maybe all .020 heads are "high compression" knurled or unknurled.
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Post  Levent Suberk Sun Jan 14, 2024 10:05 am

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Post  rdw777 Sun Jan 14, 2024 12:08 pm

The photo below shows Bob’s new .020 crank and case next to one of mine staged up in the same position …. Unless it’s an optical illusion looks like a big crank PeeWee .020….
I’m sure a rare bird…. Congratulations on that unusual piece Thumbs Up

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home Ab6e1d10
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Post  OVERLORD Sun Jan 14, 2024 12:24 pm

OVERLORD wrote:Bob, all 020 heads are knurled. Nothing to do with high compression.

Not true, indeed. 10 years ago, I started a thread on this subject

www.coxengineforum.com/t6237-020-alleged-high-compression-head&ved=2ahUKEwjw7PC6vt2DAxUkT6QEHdjpBX8QFnoECBwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw020CCdh1H3zhCLpLaa571C
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Post  rsv1cox Sun Jan 14, 2024 12:41 pm

rdw777 wrote:The photo below shows Bob’s new .020 crank and case next to one of mine staged up in the same position …. Unless it’s an optical illusion looks like a big crank PeeWee .020….
I’m sure a rare bird…. Congratulations on that unusual piece Thumbs Up

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home Ab6e1d10

What a great compairson picture.  A picture is worth a thousand words.  Smile

And Lieven, something is lost in translation, that and presently my brain is so clogged in Covid goo that I can't make your connection.  But, I'm thinking, same glow head/compression/part # -  different visual presentation.

Bob
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Post  OVERLORD Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:04 pm

Do you mean that the link doesn't work? For me it does but I do all this on my phone and maybe that makes the trouble.

This the beginning of the first page

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home Screen19
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Post  rsv1cox Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:50 pm

Hi Lieven, The link works fine and I read every word. I think that we agree.

Bob
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Post  roddie Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:38 pm

rdw777 wrote:The photo below shows Bob’s new .020 crank and case next to one of mine staged up in the same position …. Unless it’s an optical illusion looks like a big crank PeeWee .020….
I’m sure a rare bird…. Congratulations on that unusual piece Thumbs Up

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home Ab6e1d10

Oh yea... You'd do well to catalog that piece Mr. Vining..
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Post  rsv1cox Sun Jan 14, 2024 6:07 pm

Yes, I showed it a little love. Knocked the rust off the splines with fine steel wool, a few drops of MMO in all the right places.

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016979
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016978
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Post  Levent Suberk Sun Jan 14, 2024 6:27 pm

Hi Bob, do you think to deanodize worn and chipped red fuel tanks to get natural aluminum?
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Jan 15, 2024 12:02 am

Bob, that Spad seems familiar, wonder if it could be an early Enterprise CL kit. Nonetheless, there are enough kit plans on Outerzone, Hip Pocket, Aero-Fred's, etc., that filling in missing parts with your skills should be a no brainer. Very Happy
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:07 am

Thanks George, I think I can use the undamaged quarter wing to duplicate the rest, just backlight it and trace. The rest is easy.

And Levent, I kind of like the red tanks, but these are not worth much effort. Evirorust sp? will remove anodization. Rod (Oldenginerod) suggested blank-off rubber grommets instead of JBW as a hole repair. I have an assortment but maybe none quite that small - about 1/4" and less. Going to see if I have some that will fit an oval curve not a flat surface.

I went on ebay looking for Pee Wee parts. WOW! most sellers think they have gold! There are sellers and there are dreamers out there. I found a couple of sellers but still more costly than my comfort zone usually allows. Found two.

NIP $115.00 - Didn't need it, wanted it. Cheap compared to the others.

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home Nip_pw10

And...Parts. $48.00 (Twice what I wanted to pay but I need the fuel tank to add to the Cox Camero/GTO engine)

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home Ebay_b20

These were the cheapest that I could find, most reach into the high two and three hundreds.



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Post  rsv1cox Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:04 am

Enterprise Kit, maybe George.  Looks like the wings have eight ribs each and stringers glued right on the top slab.  Bottom is tissue covered.  

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016983

Engine was mounted cylinder down, needle up.  Needle and fillers must have had extensions, if not they will be.

So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016984
So, slightly bent, broken and abused French Spad is coming home P1016985

Test fitting only. This is so much fun. Warms the heart of an old man. Mysteries uncovered, mysteries solved.
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