Please help me understand the economy of..........

To me, it is not about economics. It's about the joy of modeling and creativity, and I have some balsa stock laying around. Hardware and X-acto blades are cheap enough. You have to power, cover and finish a kit plane too...

I built mine for under $35. Maybe $10 in wood. With lots of scraps. $10 in covering/paint. Bell crank costs 75 cents at my LHS. It was very cost saving for me and I would do it again before getting the kit.

Rolla

It makes sense when you have enough leftover material from previous projects. I am about to embark on a scratch build Ringmaster Dave and all it's going to cost me is a control horn an a set of wheels as I have enough Balsa in my reserves.

I agree though it's cheaper and easier in kit form if you have nothing to start with. I imagine for some scratchbuilding is a real sense of accomplishment when finished.

I believe you have said before " Life's too short to drink cheap Wine"

Or something along those lines.........

I could build a baby ringmaster for under $35 I think, not as quick as a kit but in terms of money it is definitely possible.

Then of course, there's the ULTIMATE economy: Just don't do it! Crank up You Tube and watch someone else spend their money ! No kits, glue, paint, fuel, support equipment, cut fingers, hateful neighbors!

It's a Win-Win !!!!!

Kim wrote:Then of course, there's the ULTIMATE economy: Just don't do it! Crank up You Tube and watch someone else spend their money ! No kits, glue, paint, fuel, support equipment, cut fingers, hateful neighbors!

It's a Win-Win !!!!!

That is, if you see the above as a negative thing

There are five different rib patterns on a Baby Ringmaster.

Without the kit plan where does the "scratch builder" get those and still be faithful to the design?

SuperDave wrote:There are five different rib patterns on a Baby Ringmaster.

Without the kit plan where does the "scratch builder" get those and still be faithful to the design?

Print off the plan from the internet.

nitroairplane wrote:

Kim wrote:Then of course, there's the ULTIMATE economy: Just don't do it! Crank up You Tube and watch someone else spend their money ! No kits, glue, paint, fuel, support equipment, cut fingers, hateful neighbors!

It's a Win-Win !!!!!

That is, if you see the above as a negative thing

Not me! I pirated this "Sinbot" and never touched either kit !!!! ARRRRR !!!!

Kim wrote:

nitroairplane wrote:

Kim wrote:Then of course, there's the ULTIMATE economy: Just don't do it! Crank up You Tube and watch someone else spend their money ! No kits, glue, paint, fuel, support equipment, cut fingers, hateful neighbors!

It's a Win-Win !!!!!

That is, if you see the above as a negative thing

Not me! I pirated this "Sinbot" and never touched either kit !!!! ARRRRR !!!!

That a pert!
Has it got upthrust?

That a pert!
Has it got upthrust?[/quote]

Said the Actress to the Bishop

John Goddard wrote:That a pert!
Has it got upthrust?

Said the Actress to the Bishop
[/quote]





Thanks to you John, everyone is shaking their heads at Bishops the world over.

nitroairplane wrote:

Kim wrote:

nitroairplane wrote:

Kim wrote:Then of course, there's the ULTIMATE economy: Just don't do it! Crank up You Tube and watch someone else spend their money ! No kits, glue, paint, fuel, support equipment, cut fingers, hateful neighbors!

It's a Win-Win !!!!!

That is, if you see the above as a negative thing

Not me! I pirated this "Sinbot" and never touched either kit !!!! ARRRRR !!!!

That a pert!
Has it got upthrust?

Sometimes...depends on it's mood !

nitroairplane wrote:

SuperDave wrote:There are five different rib patterns on a Baby Ringmaster.

Without the kit plan where does the "scratch builder" get those and still be faithful to the design?

Print off the plan from the internet.

ARRR !!! "Faithfulness"...she can be a Cruel Mistress! ARRRR !!!!

SuperDave wrote:There are five different rib patterns on a Baby Ringmaster.

Without the kit plan where does the "scratch builder" get those and still be faithful to the design?

Hey SuperDave,

The downloadable plans have the different rib patterns on them. It's just a matter of tracing them out on sheet balsa and cutting the ribs.

If you PM me your email I can send you the plans and you can see how they measure up to the kit plans.

Ron

Ron:

Since recently built and have flown the "Baby Ringmaster" from a Brodak kit I have everything I need to make a copy should I so choose. Thank you for the offer.

My BR has a beam-mounted TD .051 (from Kim) and it runs on 1/4 oz. Brodak #514 tank. The plane flys very well and by the time it runs out of fuel and quits I'm ready to sit down and get over my "dizzies". It really smokes around the circle on 35 foot lines!

SuperDave wrote:Ron:

Since recently built and have flown the "Baby Ringmaster" from a Brodak kit I have everything I need to make a copy should I so choose. Thank you for the offer.

My BR has a beam-mounted TD .051 (from Kim) and it runs on 1/4 oz. Brodak #514 tank. The plane flys very well and by the time it runs out of fuel and quits I'm ready to sit down and get over my "dizzies". It really smokes around the circle on 35 foot lines!

Glad to hear you are enjoying your Ringmaster. I hope to be enjoying mine in the very near future.

I was offering you plans so you could see how they show the rib templates and to compare against the ones you received in your kit.

Has your original question been answered?

Ron: As to the economy/satisfaction equation, yes. It's a matter of personal choice.

Having built the BR from a Brodak kit I now have the plans and patterns to make another. I would glady loan them to a forum member who wishes to go that route for the satisfaction to be achieved. Economically there is nothing to be gained however for reasons that I have mentioned previously.

At $35 I believe the Brodak kit to be a good value.

I agree Dave. Brodak offers quality affordable kits no doubt about that. I plan on getting a Jumpin Bean from them and maybe the Ringmaster Jr.

They have a ton of CL accessories as well.

SuperDave wrote:Ron: As to the economy/satisfaction equation, yes. It's a matter of personal choice.
At $35 I believe the Brodak kit to be a good value.

IMHO a person can still save some bucks by building from scratch...BUT, if you can afford it, I would suggest buying the kit...at least the first one. Manufacturers are not getting rich making kits. Brodak once said, "How do you make a million dollars from model airplanes...start with two million." (or something near that). By purchasing the kit you help to keep them in business so the stuff stays available.

Manufacturers like John Brodak do it partly for the love of modeling. BTW, John and Buzz Brodak host probably the largest CL fun and competition event in the USA every year around Fathers Day. I think it now runs about five days.

Those of us who are older can name some kit and engine manufacturers who have had close their doors.

Dave - For less dizziness, you might want to try .008x42' steel lines (or 42' other material) for the TeeDee. Most fly reedies on 35' lines.

George

Also, purchasing a kit is NOT always the way to recreate the designer's original model. At least one example is when Dumas took over the manufacturing rights for Joe Wagner's Scout. They redesigned the Veco model, moving the wing, reshaping the airfoil and tail, and made some subtle changes in it's moments. This MAY have been to augment some manufacturing procedures, but I don't truly know. Interestingly they DID NOT change the box art or instructions from the original model. I learned all this talking to Joe back at the '98 or '99 S.M.A.L.L. Fly-In in Little Rock.

I've restored my Uncle's Dumas "Scout", and have an original built from plans that I bought from Joe. I consider them the premier built-up body/wing 1/2A stunt plane.

As far as any "economy", I'd suggest that it depends on the builder and his shop. To purposely "Grocery Shop" for the raw materials to build a specific plane, yes the kit would probably be a cheaper option, but in the case of a full-blown---raging--Balsa Dust Storm---fanatic---Airplane Cave---there's a good chance that there's always enough stock supplies just laying around to scratch a pretty bodacious Model Airplane !

All this aside...it's still a great idea to support those who supply our habit !!!!

The Brodak kits yield a good flying 1/2A plane that is generally quite maneuverable and light. You certainly can't say that with the original Sterling Baby Ringmaster. The wonderful "die crushing" technique that Sterling perfected was absolutely horrid. If there was ever one manufacturer out there that was going to make a scratch builder out of you the hobbyist, Sterling was going to be the one. Newer laser cut kits are so precise that it really can spoil you as you tend to get used to how easy things are. Costs of laser cutting however is expensive not to mention the cad time to draw the programs as well and the prototype building to work out the kinks.

Out of all the Sterling kits I've built and there's been several, there was never a accurate print that included rib details for making templates. The sheeted leading edge full size Ringmaster S1-A was the only kit I ever seen Sterling produce that gave you a semi accurate wing detail showing a full size root rib. Sterling figured this was more or less common workplace for most hobbyists and rarely provided the builder with accurate details and pictures. I'm sure like anything else cost was the bottom line even back then. The quality of the kit your receiving from Brodak's for the price in my opinion is untouchable. Many factors go into that kit prior to the actual wood itself not to mention the illustration and guideline building sheets that have to written and printed. John's kits, and I can't speak for the baby Ringmaster all include accurate printed copies of all the ribs. Most of us generally traced all the parts prior to building for spares later on. That was the first thing we did when you received a new kit. Sterling didn't give you a bellcrank(other than 1/2 A kits) in any kit, they didn't give you leadoutwire materials, no engine mounting hardware, and didn't give you wheels. You generally received pre bent wire gear, a control horn, silkspan and horrible quality wood and instructions. I recently passed by the old Sterling factory and it really does however bring back some terrific memories. Ken

shawn cook wrote:

I recently passed by the old Sterling factory and it really does however bring back some terrific memories. Ken

Yo Ken! If you get by there again, and can snap a photo, I'd like to see it!

I had posted a story about my Minnie Mambo "Little Traveler" on the Sterling Collectors page ( http://home.mindspring.com/~jeff.coons/vintagesterlingmodels/id23.html )a few years ago, but have not seen any activity there for a while. Figure the moderator may have had health or other problems...