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Post  Surfer_kris Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:19 am

I have been doing some bench testing for a recent build. The Norvel pre-revlite are great after some careful running in. I have replaced the stock, cold, glow plug with the later warmer ones. Compared to fiddling with Cox engines, these are just "plug and play"...

Here are some numbers on 10% nitro and 20% all castor;

Norvel pre-revlite .049 RC; APC 5.7x3 prop 18500rpm
Norvel pre-revlite .049 RC; APC 4.75x4 prop 20500rpm

Norvel pre-revlite .061 RC; APC 5.7x3 prop 19100rpm
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Post  ian1954 Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:23 am

Is that with or without the silencer?

I have a few of these but haven't gotten around to running them in yet. Started but not finished!
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Post  RknRusty Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:42 am

I love the three Revlite Norvels I have. I had trouble cranking my first one, which was brand new, but it was just because of inexperience on my part. The older they get, the faster they get. CEF member Balogh bought a couple from NV Engines that were reportedly sour. I hated to hear that, but other reports about them from Stunthangar members place have been positive.
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Post  balogh Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:06 pm

Sure, Rusty, the only positive thing about the NV Big Mig Revlite I have is the RC carb that is really cool. The piston/cylinder fit of the brand new engine was so poor I could hardly start it in lack of compression. Once it started it almost crashed my RC plane due to the lack of thrust.

Reading your tach results I am still not convinced a NV can outperform a TD 051...my TD051 (with more than 50 hours runtime on it) revs around 21k with Bernie's 5x4 prop (the one I posted vids on on youtube)

But I admit I may have been sold by NV a lousy one.
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Post  Surfer_kris Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:13 pm

@ian1954 wrote:Is that with or without the silencer?

The numbers are with the stock silencer.

Norvel pre-revlite, bench running numbers Img_1714
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Post  Surfer_kris Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:18 pm

@balogh wrote:
Reading your tach results I am still not convinced a NV can outperform a TD 051...my TD051 (with more than 50 hours runtime on it)  revs around 21k with Bernie's 5x4 prop (the one I posted vids on on youtube)

But I admit I may have been sold by NV a lousy one.

Well the Norvel .061 will beat it fore sure, while the .049 might be a closer race. The Norvels are more user friendly though, no need for pressure feed (other than from the muffler) or replacement of needles for finer pitch etc.

Which of Bernies props are you referring to?

I only have one engine from NV, and it is not the same as the original Norvels....
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Post  JPvelo Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:15 pm

I recently purchased a new revlite .15 BB. Looking forward to seeing what it will do.

Jim
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Post  Cribbs74 Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:21 pm

Awesome. Love the look of the Norvel .15. Let's hope it's a good performer.
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Post  Surfer_kris Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:54 am

The Norvel .15 BB are great engines. The stock carburetor is a little restrictive, but it gives a very low and stable idle. With the stock carb, 10% nitro and an APC 8x4, I'm getting 2200-14800rpm. Smile

For a little more power, the MVVS .15 carb is a direct drop in. It will then do 2800-15800rpm on the same prop, and gives an excellent power to weight ratio.

Norvel pre-revlite, bench running numbers Img_1414
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Post  Ken Cook Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:06 am

We were using the Norvel BB .15 for combat. The engine worked quite well. We use 35% on a APC 6.3x4 . The prop studs on these are notorious for breaking. In my situation I had a midair and it snapped the prop off the front. The engine went into a shaft run which seized the rod onto the crank. I was able to get the rod off and replace it. I'm still running that engine to this day. The head button itself also comes loose initially which needs constant monitoring. It can be held in place using Ultra Copper on the threads. This also aids compression. Eventually without the RTV it will seal but it takes some running.  A Nelson head button will yield a additional 1200 rpm's. in stock configuration. I highly recommend drilling the drive washer and tapping for a 2-56 set screw. This can be tightened down on the crank which prevents you from losing the drive washer if you hit the ground and the prop stud breaks. The engine runs terrific on bladder and a OS #1A needles is a direct fit into the venturi. The nice thing is you can loosen the venturi nut and rotate the needle all the way back out of the way and up against the cylinder. The stock control line needle is very poor. Problematic due to various air leaks and not worth the time to even make it work. The spraybar utilizes a plastic banjo fitting which in itself has 3 places for air to leak into . If you choose to run it, I would highly consider the the above spraybar and needle. Ken
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Post  balogh Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:36 pm

@Surfer_kris wrote:
@balogh wrote:
Reading your tach results I am still not convinced a NV can outperform a TD 051...my TD051 (with more than 50 hours runtime on it)  revs around 21k with Bernie's 5x4 prop (the one I posted vids on on youtube)

But I admit I may have been sold by NV a lousy one.

Well the Norvel .061 will beat it fore sure, while the .049 might be a closer race. The Norvels are more user friendly though, no need for pressure feed (other than from the muffler) or replacement of needles for finer pitch etc.

Which of Bernies props are you referring to?

I only have one engine from NV, and it is not the same as the original Norvels....

Yes, the 061 is 20% larger in swept volume than a TD051 so no wonder if it outperforms the TD051...The prop I referred to is this one: http://coxengines.ca/cox-.049-propeller-5-x-4.html

I do not use any pressure feed on my TD-s, but use a party balloon for fuel tank and it is the best option I have ever met...my RC planes fly in any position and the TD has enough suction even in vertically upside position to draw fule from the tank. Since I pulled a sylicone tube over the needle valve to seal the threads I also have never had a lean or unstable run. True, though, that the COX R/C carburetor is less sophisticated and reliable than the Norvel..the only strong part of the Norvel, or of at least the lousy one that I purchased from NV a year ago and have not used it ever since due to its non-existing compression .
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Post  RknRusty Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:50 pm

Balogh, I don't recall if we ever discussed your break-in. NV Engines recommends procedures that will ruin compression, such as loosening it up before the first crank by spinning it cold with a drill motor, with only castor in the crankcase. This is to loosen the pinch, making the first crank easier for the novice, but at the cost of destroying compression. The best way to wake up a new Norvel is to crank it and run it hot and fast the first time, only richening occasionally for short periods to briefly cool it before going full scream again. Sorry to dig up old pain, but I'm forever curious about your dilemma.
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Post  balogh Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:06 am

Thanks Rusty. I am aware some people use heat guns before starting up a virgin Norvel thus to prevent excessive cold wear during breaking in. I did not have to use that. Before the piston reached the TDC pinch point there was no compression whatsoever in the brand new engine. I do not believe we have to mistify the phenomenon. It was simply dead on arrival. I do not and cannot claim this is true with all NV engines but mine was a truckload of b...t thanks to - or despite- the hand-selected piston and cylinder. The QC guy was probably not thirsty already when chose the parts.
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Post  Surfer_kris Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:49 am

I have one engine recently bought from NV that behaved like that too, they do seem to have screwed up the machining of new parts, or they are now simply sell off the old parts that didn't make the cut before....

The original true Norvels do not have this problem. Try to get a new piston and cylinder set from ebay and it should fit right in.
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Post  Surfer_kris Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:53 am

@balogh wrote:
Reading your tach results I am still not convinced a NV can outperform a TD 051...my TD051 (with more than 50 hours runtime on it)  revs around 21k with Bernie's 5x4 prop (the one I posted vids on on youtube)

I'm currently using that prop in my Yellow Jacket plane. It has an old beat up rev-lite .061 Bigmig RC in it. The last time a tacked the engine it did about 20500rpm when set for flight, using stock muffler and 10% nitro and 20% castor fuel.
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Post  balogh Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:18 pm

Thanks, Chris,

I am relieved to read your posts.

1. First thing, I am no longer alone with my negative experience regarding recently purchased NV engines. (I felt a bit guilty and blasphemous with my criticism on NV, among all NV fans posting here).  Regarding the new piston and cylinder, I was confident (an euphemism to naive)  enough to buy a spare cylinder/piston set with my new Revlite NV, and needless to say, the spare cylinder/piston set is the same junk of zero compression, as the one in the new engine...so this is no solution. I contacted NV in the US and they gave me an address in St Petersburg Russia where I was supposed to return the engine for inspection, that I could not even google....so I gave up on NV, I am just wondering why it took me so long, having sufficient experience collected behind the former Iron Curtain, with sh....y Russian products..I still believe the only thing these folks should produce today is vodka..they are good at that, but that is the end of the line of recommended Russian products in my experience.

Can anyone out there finally tell me that contrary to my experience with this Russian trash NV, why is that if you (are lucky enough to afford to) open a new-in-box COX engine, made, say 50 or so years ago in a yearly production run of a million pieces, or nowadays as well, you can be darn sure this will be the same flawless quality as any other COX engine you have ever met, even though these may have been made in the last century with 50 or so years old "obsolete" technological knowledge?

2. Second thing, the fact that your 061 NV turns the prop at roughly the same rpm as my 20% smaller TD 051 just further corroborate my experience that in their category, COX engines remain unbeatable.
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Post  Ken Cook Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:44 pm

I will say this, I just recently purchased a new .061 piston cylinder set from NV. For those unaware, NV hasn't had these in stock for over a year now. Dimitry the parts tech returned every one of my e-mails within MINUTES of sending. There were a total of 7 e-mails. Alex the factory rep has helped me anytime I needed parts regardless if listed on the site. These two go over the top in helping me. I explained I had a contest and I really needed to get this up an going. Dimitry found 2 piston sleeves which I purchased and assembled them within minutes of receiving them. I flew this in a contest this past weekend and I was competing against high powered Cyclons, Fora's and Profi's. My Norvel .061 smoked a Fora on a Russian glass prop. I was flying with a Cox rubber ducky trimmed down to 3 7/8".

I find their help and assistance and the quality of the items they sold me were just over the top. I took 3rd place in the contest and I certainly wouldn't been able to do it without the help of those two fellows. Ken
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Post  balogh Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:37 pm

I also communicated with Dimitry and he was really responsive. My problem is not with the sales staff of NV but with the junk they sold me..I would not mind if it was the other way around (i.e., a good product sold by some redneck) but even the nicest salesman like Dimitry will not turn the prop on my plane instead of the trash his company dumped on me...and do not forget it cost me close to a hundred bucks.
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Post  Surfer_kris Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:12 am

I have one of their first, faulty, diesel conversion heads. Still waiting for a proper one from them...

I have also received some of the (too cold) glow plugs with my last order, so things are not like they used to be.

Cox engines have similar issues though, it is the early engines that are good, the later sure starts etc are not made to the same standards/quality. It seems like traditional manual labour is too expensive nowadays...
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