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Is this crazy or what?

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Is this crazy or what?

Post  rsv1cox on Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:35 pm

I put this together many years ago out of a crashed R/C airplane horizontal stabilizer and a throttled Enya .15. You can call it "experimental" Smile



I rigged it so when I gave the model full up it would open the carburetor all the way and full down would retard it the same amount. Level flight held the throttle midway. As I recall it was a lot of fun to fly and I can't wait to try it again. Anyone ever try something similar?







Comments negative or positive are invited. My feelings arn't easily hurt... Sad Smile
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Re: Is this crazy or what?

Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:26 pm

I like the looks of it. Pretty cool the way you designed the throttle. But I have to ask why you would want full throttle for inside maneuvers but not outside ones?

If it was just a fun experimental thing then I get it. Maybe that's the crazy part! Very Happy
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Re: Is this crazy or what?

Post  pkrankow on Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:33 pm

Pretty slick idea. Outsides would be better with power though.

Phil
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Re: Is this crazy or what?

Post  RknRusty on Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:44 pm

You'd be pouring on power during the last half of an inside loop too. But if you could think up ways around those things, it becomes a great idea, maybe a substitute for a 4-2-4 break that could be used on your modern schnuerle engines. Maybe?

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Re: Is this crazy or what?

Post  rsv1cox on Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:02 pm

I was happy just to see this thing loop. I don't think I ever tried an outside even if it could do one. Probably fall off the lines and crash.

I always wanted to try a throttled C/L but wasn't thrilled with the idea of a three line system. Roller coasters were fun as I recall, listening to that Enya respond was sort of thrilling. Smile

The link between the two flaps is broken, I will have to remove them and fix it before trying it again. I wonder how it would fly if just the inside (throttled) flap was operational.. Huh...
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Re: Is this crazy or what?

Post  pkrankow on Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:03 pm

It might fly "fine" sorta.  Not pretty for hard maneuvers but lazy maneuvers would be fine.  Up input will roll out, and up elevator will keep the lines tight.  Down would roll inward, with down elevator keeping the lines tight.  Just fine.

What would work better is to have throttle added with any control input, and a moderate high throttle for level.  A "toggle" mechanism might do the trick.  Think taking a linkage to rotate a disc.  Take the throttle connection off the edge exactly facing (or away from) the carb linkage.  At neutral the throttle would be where it is set, and in either direction  of control deflection the throttle would be increased.  If you put an extension and dogleg on the existing linkage, and make a horn that sticks directly off the flap TE that should do it.

Wiring the throttle wide open would be easier, and probably work just as well.

Phil
(and repair the flaps)
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Re: Is this crazy or what?

Post  roddie on Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:01 pm

A "cam" (lobe).. type horn and either a spring or centrifugally actuated weighted linkage that wouldn't be dependent on a throttle-return spring would be "trick". W.O.T "exponentially" with either up/down control-input.. and "kicked down a notch" (adjustable by the cam profile) at neutral setting. Huh... (the wheels are turning.. Smile )

Navy Carrier has always fascinated me... but they're "scale models".. designed for a scale event... and not built for stunting. I wouldn't be surprised if modern "AMA Carrier" models incorporated "servo-driver's" of some sort, to replace the 3-line system. I'll bet that a system could be designed; limited to stranded-steel lines (for continuity) that would transmit resistance through a "finger-trigger" in the handle.. to a servo-driver unit in the model. Shocked Imagine the possibilities...

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Re: Is this crazy or what?

Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:08 pm

Or.... Just set it uo to run a 4-2. The Enya is pretty much a wet 2 engine by nature. The throttle linkage is neat for playing around, but it would be disastrous if you want to pattern fly.

I wouldn't even consider flying with one flap, or should I say aileron Laughing
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Re: Is this crazy or what?

Post  RknRusty on Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:44 pm

You dudes want to do with IC engines what the electric stunters are already doing with inertial sensors and engine load control. I don't know their jargon for all that stuff but I think that's what it is. Igor Burger the current World Champ from Slovakia is a cutting edge pioneer on those systems. As a mechanical sidebar here, the guy makes logarithmic control linkages for his control surfaces. Brilliant man.
Rusty

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Re: Is this crazy or what?

Post  ian1954 on Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:59 am

RknRusty wrote:You dudes want to do with IC engines what the electric stunters are already doing with inertial sensors and engine load control. I don't know their jargon for all that stuff but I think that's what it is. Igor Burger the current World Champ from Slovakia is a cutting edge pioneer on those systems. As a mechanical sidebar here, the guy makes logarithmic control linkages for his control surfaces. Brilliant man.
Rusty

This is the simple application for electrickery control line motor control. Read and enjoy!

http://www.castlecreations.com/products/control_line_stunt_setup.html

The electrickery surrounding the motor can be applied also using height and angle sensors.

Now if ASX (artificial stabalisation) technology was applied to self trim the control line model!!!!!

(WARNING - IF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY THE ADVANCES IN RC DO NOT WATCH)

However, this is quite a moving little video with the background muzac!



Move onwards and upwards with SAFE technology for assistance and getting out of trouble!



With more explanation!

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Re: Is this crazy or what?

Post  Ken Cook on Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:45 am

I admire your tank installation. That wedge tank  is extremely problematic with that engine specifically if mounted hard onto the outboard doubler. Seeing that you have the tank set into the fuse allows that engine to achieve a proper run . I struggled with the 3303 for a long time due to the wedge having the pickup too far outboard. That engine is just extremely sensitive to that once the head pressure of fuel begins to reduce. The stock control line Enya venturi is considerably larger increasing the throat area of the venturi but it reduces the engine's ability to draw fuel . TO extract the power I required I needed the larger venturi as the stock control line version came with 2 of them. The engine does make a little more power in a true control line version. I tried several different tank configurations and settled on one in particular. Terrific little engines once run in. The Enya's take an incredibly long time to break in. Ken
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Re: Is this crazy or what?

Post  Surfer_kris on Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:42 am

RknRusty wrote:You dudes want to do with IC engines what the electric stunters are already doing with inertial sensors and engine load control.

Really, I thought it was the other way around, and they are just trying to do what IC engines have done all the time, i.e. they are trying to emulate a decent 4-2-4 break...

Back on topic, why not make the throttle increase either way from neutral elevator?
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Re: Is this crazy or what?

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:01 am

Thanks for all of your responses.

roddie, if the wheels are turning - I expect to see something by Christmas. Smile

I refer to them as "flaps" as they operate in unison, it would be interesting flying C/L with ailerons. Smile

Ken, if I got that tank position correct, it was by accident. The old Kelly Johnson routine of "cut and try".

Those Parkzone models are neat, My son has sworn off gas and now flies electric exclusive. The advances in servo and battery miniaturization is amazing.

I posted this picture before. The servos and battery in that T-28 are tiny.



Flying that F4U inside a building was amazing.

Thanks all.
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Re: Is this crazy or what?

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