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Nice original Babe Bee from a Super Cub 105, late fifties.



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Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

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Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  rsv1cox on Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:57 pm

Beautiful day here in WV.  I have no more engines to boil or lawns to mow or leaves to rake, although these are still waiting for me.



So I thought I would start on the PT-17 again posted about here previously.  Found at an antique shop in some disrepair, the top wing held by only a few ill installed balsa struts that separated when I picked it up.

Thankfully I had the same model NIB with the plans.  So I stripped up some mostly clear white pine for struts, sanded them down and cut them to size.  





The builder had just surface mounted the struts with epoxy, so using one of roddies favorite tools equipped with a small pencil grinder I relieved all of the mounting points.  I have no illusions that they will all align properly, so a lot of epoxy is expected here.



I was never sure if the Babe Bee would haul this around a circle as the builder planked all the wings surfaces so I may have to change over to my Enya .09.  Lot's of extra work required though if I do.



It's a start.  I may just enter it in the "Reed speed" contest.  Smile
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  NEW222 on Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:13 pm

Nice plane and working area. I have to ask how it feels to work in such a clean area? I keep trying but cannot ever keep it like yours.
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  getback on Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:08 pm

New it's 3 maids and a butler I think , Nice work ((( Is the wing in the pic broken at the?? aerilon ??? Yea I would gowith one of those Enya 09 s you have ( heck just pic a runner ) and let the good times roll . getback Leaves
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  getback on Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:10 pm

O while I got you how's the leaves looking this year ?? I know it beautiful up your way especially this time of year . Tanks, Eric Leaves
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  rsv1cox on Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:29 pm

NEW222 wrote:Nice plane and working area. I have to ask how it feels to work in such a clean area? I keep trying but cannot ever keep it like yours.

Ha, That's the loft over the garage, it stays pretty clean up there. Where I clean my engines, not so. Sad

Yes Eric, the guy that first built it cut out the ailerons then just glued them on. Non functional.

Bob
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  rsv1cox on Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:34 pm

getback wrote:O while I got you how's the leaves looking this year ?? I know it beautiful up your way especially this time of year . Tanks, Eric Leaves

Yes, the first picture above is a maple, they are just now getting past full color. The hickory trees are gone and bare, the dogwoods have had good color too but are just now shedding. We are four miles out on a winding road paralleling a beautiful valley rimmed by ridges. Beautiful right now.

Almost makes me miss Florida....Almost. Smile

Bob
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  cox24711 on Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:34 pm

im always a clean worker any way good luck with the reed speed contest Very Happy
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  rsv1cox on Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:52 pm

No longer such a nice day here in West Virginia, awoke to five above this morning so I moved things from the loft down to the basement.

After constructing new struts I cut them to length per the plan illustrations and epoxied them in place on the lower wing.

Had to warm up the five degree cold epoxy and paint first though.  Didn't leave them there long.  Smile



The previous builder had cut multiple holes in the bottom of the top wing, but none of them matched the bottom N style struts so I had to cut new ones.  A little swiss cheese here I think.



I filled them with light weight spackling compound and painted with Krylon yellow.  



I turned the whole thing upside down and epoxied the top wing.



I painted the struts with Krylon sprayed into a container and brushed on.



I'm going to pull the original .049 that the previous builder had installed.  I don't think that he ever even started it.  I will replace it with one of my old reliables and provide a different fueling method.  The PO evidently wanted to use a needled syringe located in the dome on top of the fuselage.  (See the fuel ine inside the cowl.)



NO attempt at neatness either on my part or the previous builders was made on this poor old Guillows P-17.  He had sheeted the wings instead of using silk so it's a heavy weight regardless.  I'm not sure if a .049 will even get it off the ground.  But it does have a certain character that appeals to me that might not be evident in the photos.    

It's not much smaller than my Sterling Nieuport 28 which sports a series 21 McCoy .35, so the .049 is certainally suspect.  



BTW - The title of this thread is somewhat in error..... Sad It's a Guillows kit guys.  I just happened to have a complete kit on hand when my son bought me this more or less completed model at an antique shop.

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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  fredvon4 on Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:44 pm

I like it and you do such good work on every thing you post...

My wife is from Weirton and we visit a few times a year from here in Texas

Do you plan on attending Brodaks Last Fly in this year?

Where in WVA are you as I would like to drop by if near to the top of the state next time we are out that way



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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  rsv1cox on Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:40 pm

fredvon4 wrote:I like it and you do such good work on every thing you post...

My wife is from Weirton and we visit a few times a year from here in Texas

Do you plan on attending Brodaks Last Fly in this year?

Where in WVA are you as I would like to drop by if near to the top of the state next time we are out that way




Thanks for the compliment Fred, but this PT-17 model is a double mess, both mine and the previous builders.  As I have noted, my hands shake like a leaf in the wind anymore and applying paint or any adhesive is akin to a blind person threading a needle.  But like Rusty and his problems we just keep pressing on.

PM sent.

Bob


Last edited by rsv1cox on Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  pkrankow on Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:40 pm

Biplanes will fly severely under powered... The performance will be under powered. If this was a free flight model the .049 would likely be fine.

I would try 20 ft lines on that.

Phil
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  ARUP on Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:33 pm

That little 17 is a cutie! Too bad it is built too heavy for the 049. I still have a metal cowl for the N28 like you have! I was gonna ask you about that when I saw it in your avatar but I kept forgetting!
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  rsv1cox on Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:55 am

Hi Phil,  20' lines? I got so dizzy on 25' lines flying a Cox PT-19 that I fell flat on the ground.  Smile It was my first time flying C/L in 35 years, but it was fun.  I'm sure this one will be much slower than the 19, maybe 35' lines?

And ARUP it was your scratch built Kate model that got me stimulated again to complete this PT-17.  I thought if you could build from scratch a rather complicated model I could finish this 95% prebuilt airframe.  I have four unfinished Sterling Nieuport 28 kids, plus a partial.  I have two more that I have built.  The Nieuport being my favorite biplane.  Those spun aluminum cowls are nice.





But I do like that little fat bodied Guillows PT-17, it has a certain - Hey, you need me appeal.  I removed the engine that came on it, and as I thought, it has never even been fueled.  I'm disappointed that it's a new Cox .049 with the plastic back-plate.  I'm replacing it with one I built last summer.  Tapered case with a "thick" cylinder that runs great.  I'm just swapping needles as the TPI seems to be the same. Saves me unsoldering the NV extension.







I can't reach the previous builders method of fueling it so I'm just going to fuel it the normal way.  

A couple of questions:

How is that plastic back-plate vented with just one nipple, and how should I prop it?  The 7/3.5 now on it will have to be replaced.  There is a lot of weight here, the previous builder sheeted both the fuselage and the wings.  

Thanks - Bob
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  ARUP on Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:24 am

If I remember correctly there is a small vent hole next to the nipple. If it would be no trouble I'd like to purchase a copy of the Sterling N28 plans from you. I'd love to build one again. I have fond memories of it! It sure is fun knowing the community! We can encourage each other. I am really discouraged with the FAA thing so these little birds are a real home coming for me. Thanks!
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  rsv1cox on Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:14 pm

ARUP wrote:If I remember correctly there is a small vent hole next to the nipple. If it would be no trouble I'd like to purchase a copy of the Sterling N28 plans from you. I'd love to build one again. I have fond memories of it! It sure is fun knowing the community! We can encourage each other. I am really discouraged with the FAA thing so these little birds are a real home coming for me. Thanks!

I had looked for a vent hole but must have missed it.

No need to purchase, I'll just send you my spare kit. It's missing some parts but with your skills I'm sure you can replicate them.  I have three other complete kits that I will probably never build.  





Just build it and chronicle it here, that will be my reward.  It's nice to know that someone appreciates the old Nieuports as much I do.  PM me your address and it will be on it's way.

Bob
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  fredvon4 on Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:15 pm

Bob I got the PM and will let you know before hand if we are that way long enough to drop by

Most of the plastic back plate only have the one fueling nipple and the vent is hard to see but just a hole in the top of the BP
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  ARUP on Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:45 pm

Bob, I'll do the N28 next! I have a Proctor N28, too! You have some nice Nieuports, there. Are they for CL?
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  rsv1cox on Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:27 pm

ARUP wrote:Bob, I'll do the N28 next! I have a Proctor N28, too! You have some nice Nieuports, there. Are they for CL?

The two 28's are control line, the 17 is rubber powered free flight.

Year's ago I flew the finished 28 many, many times. Beautiful flyer with no faults. Lot's of dead stick controlled landings that never even broke a prop. Even my son flew it. Time though has taken it's toll, while flying it didn't, time did. It needs a complete recovering but the airframe is as strong as the day I finished it nearly 40 years ago.

Love the Proctor, what a wondeful kit that is, but I have never owned one.

Bob
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  stuntflyr on Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:05 am

Try to find that Poly Span I may have mentioned before when recovering the Nieuports, Bob. Much tougher stuff than silkspan or even silk.
Chris...
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  getback on Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:00 am

Bob the Bipes look really good is the air frame one the one your working on now ? You can still enjoy them even if getting to dizzy is a problem , I can kind of relate , need to get into some more complex builds myself all this flat stuff can get boring after seeing some of the others building some really nice structures . Eric This Site Rocks!
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  rsv1cox on Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:39 am

OK, new plan, different engine.  The tapered .049 would not work with the cowl as it doesn't have the 1/2"drive" extension as the original, so I found a "product" engine that did with a #7 split cylinder and bolted on the tank.  Ought to be more powerful.





So, how do I prop this fat bodied heavy model - anybody?  



TD 5/3, APC 5.7/3, Zinger 7.35????  I have others.

I completed both N-28's Eric.  But both need recovering as the silkspan has split in may cases.  I'm looking at poly span per stunt flyer as a replacement.

Just a note on the N-28 ARUP.  I used parachute thread as guy wires on the original model.  WW2 string that was surplused after the war.  Somehow I lost it, darn it was great stuff.  I drilled small holes in the struts and fuselage before assembly which made installaton much easier.  Now, many years later it's as taunt as it ever was.  Amazing after all of those flights.  Box showed double wires so that's how I did it.



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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  ARUP on Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:34 pm

Kinda makes you wonder about the previous owner's interpretation of the PT17 with that centrally located star-in-circle on the bottom. I'm not being critical. I would just like to know. Must be a little story behind it! The little N28 sure is a pretty thing! Too bad the covering is giving up. Those flying and landing 'wires' look great and the colors have a great, what's the word, patina! I also have the Balsa USA 1/4 N28 and a 1/6 Pilot kit! I guess you can tell I like N28s, too! Do you still FF the N17? Me and another guy are trying to start a Flying Aces Squadron here but I think it takes three members. Not too many are interested in FF, either. I wonder what will be the 'hobby' of 50 years from now?
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  stuntflyr on Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:43 pm

6x3 Cox fibreglass grey prop or an APC of the same size. A Tee Dee cylinder and piston set and a high compression head with about 3 to 5 head gaskets will give it some uumph, and let you get it started normally. 25% nitro minimum. Reedies work well with modest mods and make good power. I don't know what that Stearman weighs but it should fly level at least, with a little whipping. Maybe it'd fly better with a little cleaning up of the wingtips where the sheeting meets, it's a lot of drag the way it is.
Chris...
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  rsv1cox on Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:54 am

Mike and Chris....I had thought about that single centered bottom wing star too coming up with the builder probably destroyed one of the four stars provided in the kit when trying to apply it. Weak, but all I have. Smile



At times I bring the N-17 out to the field next to the house, wind the rubber band and let 'er go into the tall soft grass. Trimmed, I may get 20/25 feet, she's built heavy with no rudder off-set.

50 years? Wow. I think back exactly 50 years when I was flying control line and the progress that has been made in the hobby since then. 50 years from now, who can tell. With the progress in flight systems in just the last few years it would be difficult to say. Let's hope that the nuts flying drones etc. unsafely doesn't cause our government to regulate us out of existance.

Thanks Chris. I really have no idea as to how to prop the PT-17. Big fat bodied with 28" wings is a lot for a .049 to haul around and I don't understand the proper thrust to weight and prop size and pitch required to do the job. Big prop with lot's of pitch, smaller prop turning higher rpms. It's Greek to me. I like the APC but the bushings provided for it still don't reduce the diameter for the .049 prop screw, I would have to bush it further.

Bob

Bob
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Re: Hitting the Sterling PT-17 again

Post  ARUP on Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:23 am

The PT-17 is ready to fly?
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