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Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

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Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  JPvelo on Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:45 pm

So awhile back we had a Profile Scale speed contest. It was fun but it became bogged down with rules and procedures.

I'm proposing a new contest.

Build a control line plane out of wood, no metal or composite speed pans, power it with a cox .049/.051 engine that uses a cox glow plug and a suction feed fuel system. Landing gear made of wire with a minimum of 2 wheels at least 2" apart. Commercially available prop from a major manufacturer, no boutique carbon fiber or fiberglass racing props. Exposed bellcrank and pushrod. 35% nitro maximum, no "funny fuel". "Spider wire" type lines at least 35' from grip of the handle to model centerline. Flight timed for 12 laps (1/2mile) at the start of the third lap after launch.  Model flown level with or below pilots shoulder height.

Two classes, reed valve and Tee Dee/Medallion.

Flight videos posted by January 31 2018.

Any takers?


Last edited by JPvelo on Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:24 am; edited 7 times in total
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  roddie on Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:33 pm

Shocked Holy crap... "yea".....
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  Cribbs74 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:47 pm

I’m interested.
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  Admin on Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:23 pm

JPvelo wrote:No prizes, bragging rights only.

I'm sure we could scare up some prizes.

We should also come up with a new sidebar graphic to replace the Profile Scale speed contest.

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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  JPvelo on Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:08 pm

Admin wrote:
JPvelo wrote:No prizes, bragging rights only.

I'm sure we could scare up some prizes.

We should also come up with a new sidebar graphic to replace the Profile Scale speed contest.

Once you get into prizes, you get into official timers, and you get into a lot of work I just don't have time for. Unless a couple of forum members that aren't participating want to volunteer to time flights?
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  Rogallo on Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:58 am

Sure why not. Any plans available or is this an own design event?

Ralph
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  KariFS on Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:48 am

Just for clarification... Would it be a "profile scale" like previous competitions or would a "proper" profile speed plane be eligible?
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  JPvelo on Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:32 am

Rogallo wrote:Sure why not. Any plans available or is this an own design event?

Ralph

KariFS wrote:Just for clarification... Would it be a "profile scale" like previous competitions or would a "proper" profile speed plane be eligible?

Build whatever you want as long as it falls into the parameters of the rules. There is no scale requirement, it doesn't even have to be a profile. As long as it's wood with exposed controls and a 2 wheel wire gear it's eligible. Let creativity be your guide.

Plenty of eligible plans can be found here, or you can roll your own:

https://outerzone.co.uk
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  roddie on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:36 am

Could previous contestants enter the same plane(s) that they flew in the previous contest(s)? If so; then there would likely be more participation. There were nearly 20 interested model-builders and approx. 30 builds in process over the last 3 years.

As far as "prizes" go... I personally don't care.. but having prizes could spawn more participation by members who've never built a speed model.

Not having to build a semi-scale model makes it a LOT easier. Faster builds.. and less emotional-attachment to them.

A new eye-catching contest-graphic with updated rules link and a new discussion-thread link would be great to keep this fire going!
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  pkrankow on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:47 am

No size box?

No limit to the streamline shape?

JUST
exposed controls
wire 2 wheel landing gear with 2 inch spacing between the wheels

So 2 inline wheels?
2 side by side wheels?
wingtip wheel and fuselage wheel?
Trike?

No reasons not to put wheels on a wing
No reasons not to fly a shingle

I look forward to the maverick designs.
Phil
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  Marleysky on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:58 am

pkrankow wrote:No size box?

No limit to the streamline shape?

JUST
exposed controls
wire 2 wheel landing gear with 2 inch spacing between the wheels

So 2 inline wheels?
2 side by side wheels?
wingtip wheel and fuselage wheel?
Trike?

No reasons not to put wheels on a wing
No reasons not to fly a shingle

I look forward to the maverick designs.
Phil

Yeah, what he said above. Engine on a Stick with two wheels. Big question is, can I spin 12-15 times with out falling over? lol!
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  roddie on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:24 pm

pkrankow wrote:No size box?

No limit to the streamline shape?

JUST
exposed controls
wire 2 wheel landing gear with 2 inch spacing between the wheels

So 2 inline wheels?
2 side by side wheels?
wingtip wheel and fuselage wheel?
Trike?

No reasons not to put wheels on a wing
No reasons not to fly a shingle

I look forward to the maverick designs.
Phil

LOL... Laughing ... this could be very interesting... as well as entertaining!

Might as well limit the rules to;

-line-length..
-Cox .049/.051 -glow ignition- engines (2 classes-reed/rotary)..
-2 wheels spaced min. 2" apart.. (any orientation.. but suspended on music-wire gear/struts)
-exposed controls..

Unlimited;

-construction material(s)..
-no size restrictions..
-any type of air-screw.. (I'd personally like to see this one-category be unlimited.. along with fuel) Some international modelers may have limited access to 35% nitro glow-fuel.

The less restrictions.. the more prospective entries.. and the more fun!

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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  fredvon4 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:26 pm

Just random thought's

Mostly cuz I like these CEF unique events---- and I am a big proponent of max participation... see my thoughts on the Engine of the month where I lament the lack of participation in spite of generous prizes donated

AH, Poo... All my TeeDee's only have Galbraith heads and Nelson Plugs and none will run on suction
Just bought a real cool Cox magnesium speed pan

Went back and re-read the entire CEF Reed Speed rules and remembered why I did not enter...

I really like the basic concept JPvelo is campaigning... but would like to see it even less restrictive... Open.... run what ya brung---everything goes event

I still believe in Basic ---....just so we have a basis to compare and agree

Keep it same limits on exact line length...

MUST BE COX base engine (any mods) but the CEF speed contest is all about COX engine...any configuration and size...

The prop rule is not really needed... there are combat and speed glass props.... most all commercially available

NOT much in the way of real exotic high zoot props out there...Cox engines all have a limit on RPM

I am OK with #35% N and no exotic fuels... 'tis what most of us have and run anyway

OTOH--- I have played with 40~60%N and additives... grin
Would not mind reading and seeing an "in rule" attempt and then, an "exception to fuel" run by some member...documented

Say ---- for example---I ran a open design model, on 32' lines and Teedee UNLIMITED Cox engine with Sig Champion 35%N to 63 MPH... solidly in third place against other CEF contestants

BUT ---then I documented a second attempt using exotic 60% brew that manged only 10 laps before the cylinder blew off...BUT the math sez I was spinning 99MPH....OK I am not a top dog winner... BUT it is still cool, funny and sort of demands next year some one attempt to BEAT 99MPH

So with that in mind...

.010 class
.020 class
. 049/.051 class
yadda Yadda

We all know the members on CEF are fine gents and ladies....gentleman/gentlewomen rules.. we trust your claims and desire video to have fun watching your attempt

There are no prizes of any real value...but do intend to catalog/acknowledge your winning for all time within the tomes of the perpetual CEF inter-web forum in words and photos

I also would ask the deadline be extended to mid spring 2018...say April 30...many of the members need at least a 6 month window to find acceptable trials and WX for record attempt

Please dear group....no matter the rules... support this event,

I am officially NOW a sponsor with:
1-- $100 US(or foreign country equivalent) Cash prize to First place (evidenced by CEF popular vote)
1-- Brodak or RSM kit of choice from the 1/2 a list of kits for Second place (evidenced by CEF popular vote)((basically allocated $75)
1-- Sig MFG or Tower single quart fuel cost for any blend desired for Third place (evidenced by CEF popular vote)(( basically allocated $30))

I eliminate myself from any prizes

I nominate Rusty/Kim/Ron Cribbs to be arbitrators of any and all disputes

JPvelo ...since this has been his passion over the years, is free to accept or REJECT any or all of my notions without hurting my fragile feeling in any way...



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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  JPvelo on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:41 pm

pkrankow wrote:

I look forward to the maverick designs.
Phil

Exactly!
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  JPvelo on Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:06 pm

In regards to Fred's comments above (I didn't want to copy the whole post):

I purposefully made the rules in this one simple to make it easy for anyone to build a competitive plane with readily available materials and parts that can be purchased from one of our two cox stores or tower hobbies. I don't want it be a contest of who can spend the most on obscure websites known only to the "experts".  Now if anyone wants to put on an exhibition flight as you proposed I'm all for it! I would love to see you compete Fred, stock venturis and TeeDee glow heads are available for $5.95 and $9.95, respectively.

I think it's great that you want to pony up prizes, thank you for your generosity! I just don't have time to run that part of the contest with a 5 month old at home. If anyone wants to step up and take over on that front I'm all for it! I might even throw in a prize of my own for the winner of average speed, I have some sweeet 1/2a Goodyear kits that are some of the finest I've ever seen.

Living in Phoenix I forget the rest of the country can't fly in winter. Videos due June 1st?

Thanks,
Jim
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  roddie on Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:25 pm

JPvelo wrote:

Living in Phoenix I forget the rest of the country can't fly in winter. Videos due June 1st?

Thanks,
Jim

That gives us all a LOT more time.. BUT.. it would be great if we could keep this HYPE alive... and get a discussion-thread going.. so that prospective contestants can get on-board. "Visibility" through an updated "EYE-CATCHING" ad on the forums' L/H side-bar would be a good start.. along with the periodic bumping of a discussion-thread with ideas, builds and trial-run vids to keep it fresh and exciting.

I'd be willing to donate some pairs of custom 1/2A racing-wheels as prizes..






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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  JPvelo on Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:30 pm

I changed the verbiage in the rules to read "no METAL OR COMPOSITE speed pans". If you have a wood pan go for it.

Jim
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  batjac on Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:31 am

Okay, I'm in. The design wheels are already turning....

The Perpetually Last Mark
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  Marleysky on Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:06 am

JPvelo wrote:I changed the verbiage in the rules to read "no METAL OR COMPOSITE speed pans". If you have a wood pan go for it.

Jim

Not having been involved in speed racing, what is the purpose of, or advantages of using a "speed pan". I always guessed it was so everyone had the same basic airframes?

Anyway, my wife just bought new kitchen utensils, I pulled the old ones outa the trash.
I'm having visions of a "flying wood handle spatula ". lol!
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  JPvelo on Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:31 pm

Marleysky wrote:
JPvelo wrote:I changed the verbiage in the rules to read "no METAL OR COMPOSITE speed pans". If you have a wood pan go for it.

Jim

Not having been involved in speed racing, what is the purpose of, or advantages of using a "speed pan".   I always guessed it was so everyone had the same basic airframes?

Anyway, my wife just bought new kitchen utensils, I pulled the old ones outa the trash.
I'm having visions of a "flying wood handle spatula ".    lol!


I believe the purpose of a speed pan is to provide a solid, vibration free base. I may be wrong.
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  JPvelo on Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:33 pm

Well, I feel like I'm off to a good start.



Last edited by JPvelo on Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  fredvon4 on Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:52 pm

You are

I am / have been fussing around with taking one or more of my unfinished 1/2a planes and cobbeling a morphed fast bird for one of my stronger Medallions...

Did I read right any plane size?  seems so...cool

I will stick by my prizes offer and insist I take on all responsibility for using whatever over all reed and TeeDee 1st through 3rd winners determination you or some future committee determines

My offer stands and on thinking, now includes total of 6 prizes... 1st to 3rd in both classes

Noted above is a June 1 completion date.. I agree but like also noted we need a good way to keep the contest ALIVE

Another thought... I am positive spider wire 32' lines is the right way to go...BUT I am physically challenged in making a set

I would gladly pay for OFFICIAL line sets if some member would make them up
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  fredvon4 on Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:54 pm

Humm...re-reading...can a Medallion be considered a TeeDee entry?
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  JPvelo on Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:57 pm

fredvon4 wrote:Humm...re-reading...can a Medallion be considered a TeeDee entry?

Instead of Tee Dee we can call it the "Rotary Intake" class so Medallions can run as well.
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

Post  fredvon4 on Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:08 pm

Cool... now to find how little fuel in a balloon tank for 13 laps
Front yard big enough for level flight 32'
Got to consider a center Yoke pole
get wife trained in hand launch of a barely will fly hunk o wood...grin
I see lots of broken props

I see a very very dizzy fred happening
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Re: Cox Engine Forum Speed Contest 2018!!!

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