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P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

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Thinking P-38

Post  RK Flyer on Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:03 am

Its looking real good, You've done a great job!!

What brand of paint are you going to use for the finish?

RK Flyer Flying
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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  roddie on Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:32 am

Marleysky wrote:She’s lookin good! Allways like it when the pieces  put together, start to look like a airplane!  I do like your balance station.

Thank You Rene! Yes.. it's good when pieces can finally be glued together.. rather than propped-up or pinned. I made that balance station recently.. and checked quite a few of my airplanes with it.
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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  roddie on Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:05 am

RK Flyer wrote:Its looking real good, You've done a great job!!

What brand of paint are you going to use for the finish?

RK Flyer  Flying

Thank you very much Richard! I looked at some samples of Rust-Oleum aerosol a few days ago at Walmart. There was a "satin" Navy blue that I liked. I just don't know how fuel-resistant satin Rust-Oleum is. Whatever I end up using; I will allow it to cure for several weeks before exposing it to glow-fuel exhaust wastes.

There's still a LOT of work to be done before painting. The fuel-tanks need mounts, the bellcrank mount needs beefing-up, wing-tip lead-out guides.. fillets.. etc.
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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  akjgardner on Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:28 am

Hey Roddie, Nice Job on the P38, I have found Rustolium Camo Paints not to be very fuelproof. They do seem to get a little better after a few weeks of Curing, But not much, However I have found the Krylon Paints that I have used pretty good


Last edited by akjgardner on Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Thinking Paint for the P-38???

Post  roddie on Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:54 pm

akjgardner wrote:Hey Roddie, Nice Job on the P38, I have found Rustolium Camo Pasints not to be very fuelproof. They do seem to get a little better after a few weeks of Curing, But not much, However I have found the Krylon Paints that I have used pretty good

Thanks Joe. Yea.. choosing paint nowadays gives me fits. I haven't flown anything in so long; the balsa models that I "did fly" back in the day were all finished in either Pactra "Aero-Gloss" dope, "Formula-U" aerosol.. or Top-Flite "Mono-Kote".

I'll probably open-up a "can-o-worms" with this statement.. but most aero-modelers of decades past weren't using high-nitro glow-fuels in general. The finishing-products that were commonly-available... provided adequate protection for glow-fuel containing 10% nitro. The racing and combat modelers were likely experimenting with finishes that would hold-up to higher-nitro glow-fuels... just like those of us who currently run our Cox engines for maximum-performance using 25%+ nitro in the fuel-mix. It's tough when you consider the need to "seal" the wood.. apply the color-coat(s).. then seal them in the desired sheen.. (matte, semi-gloss, or gloss).. while trying to keep the weight to a minimum. If there was an easier way to provide a fuel-proof finish to a glow-engine powered-model.. we'd all be standing in line to buy it.

I for one; don't own any spray-painting equipment. I don't have a compressor or a spray-gun. If I did.. then it would make more sense to invest in some of the newer proven products that are available.

It's basically like having to choose the highest-rated (output) engine for a given-design; in order to assure proper performance, once the finish is applied.
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Thinking P-38 .049 Cox reed-valve engines..

Post  roddie on Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:50 pm

The engines that are "dangling" from my model.. are merely dangling... Laughing in-place as "teasers".. and for the purpose of retrieving preliminary balance-data. They are currently being held in-place by one screw.

They will however be configured as "product-engines" with stock horseshoe-style backplates. The airplane with engines weighs-in at just under 8oz. in its current state of build. I plan to configure the engines with #1 dual-bypass/SPI cylinders.. and stock Cox #325 glow-heads. Reed-valves will likely be .005" thick oval-shaped Mylar.

The props (planned) are the "DAL" 5 x 4's that I sourced recently. They came as lefts and rights.. which was an attractive aspect for a Cox .049/twin-application.



Planned control-lines are Dyneema/Spectra synthetic-braid 15# x 35 feet.
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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  getback on Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:55 am

Hi Roddie , The plane is coming along nicely !! I really like the landing gear you configured on there Good Fun Man . I am sure you know bee sure to fill those extra holes in the firewall good with a fuel proofer / speaking of paint the Krylon paints i have used were good to 25% Nitro after that it ran the color away Laughing You know you can buy paint sprayers that work off air cans / or check the pawn shops... Huh...
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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  roddie on Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:20 am

getback wrote:Hi Roddie , The plane is coming along nicely !! I really like the landing gear you configured on there Good Fun Man . I am sure you know bee sure to fill those extra holes in the firewall good with a fuel proofer / speaking of paint the Krylon paints i have used were good to 25% Nitro after that it ran the color away Laughing  You know you can buy paint sprayers that work off air cans / or check the pawn shops... Huh...

Thanks Eric! Good of you to mention that about the extra engine-mount-holes. Have you used satin/flat Krylon? I'm wondering if the gloss paints do a better job at repelling the fuel mist?

My brother gave me an old Badger air-brush system a few years ago. I've never used it. I think it needs a new can of propellant.

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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  944_Jim on Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:44 pm

Regarding that old Badger, I had a Humbrol in High School. That air brush got a steady diet of air from an old, big truck tire.
While air was cheaper that way, I got the benefit of aerobic excersize filling the tire with a bicycle tire pump. During longer spraying periods I would haul it to the school's auto shop to fill it for free.
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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  akjgardner on Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:07 am

good trick Jim, greenie for that one
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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  getback on Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:40 am

I will give a greenie for that too Jim , pumping an full size tire up with the ole manual tire pump was a JOB , done that before Rolling Eyes Use that thing Roddie ( a least give it a try to see if you like it ((( I like mine can spray parts , plane in a jiffy )) The only thing is getting the mixture right if you run out on the first spray 's ? I have used Gloss and regular but not the Satin Roddie . Popcorn
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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  KariFS on Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:56 am

Here's one for your longer spray sessions (and a spare in the middle if you happen to run out of air in a critical point).



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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  roddie on Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:52 am

I hope to get some work done on this model later in the afternoon today. The wedge-tanks need mounts. I'll likely imbed pairs of small hardwood dowels (pegs) top and bottom into the 1/4" balsa. Rubber-bands hook over the pegs to hold the tank in place against the side-wall. The wing's leading-edge is posing an issue with the rear-set of rubber-band pegs.. but I think I have a solution for that.

These are Perfect-brand #17 tanks which are .25oz. (7.4cc) capacity.

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Thinking tank-mount pegs

Post  roddie on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:36 am






It turns out.. the top-rear pegs are unnecessary in securing the tanks.




The silicone fuel-lines for connecting to the horizontally-mounted Cox horseshoe backplate-carb will each be a short 1" in length.

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Thinking P-38 Lightening

Post  RK Flyer on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:54 am

Roddie....You are making great progress on the P-38! Are those tanks 3/4 oz?
Keep up the good work.

I still have a couple of planes on the bench so it wont be long before they are complete!

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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  roddie on Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:07 pm

RK Flyer wrote:Roddie....You are making great progress on the P-38! Are those tanks 3/4 oz?
Keep up the good work.

I still have a couple of planes on the bench so it wont be long before they are complete!

RK Flyer   Flying

Hi Richard. Thank You so much! The tanks are 1/4oz. (Perfect #17) which equals 7.4cc's. This will yield a run-time just slightly less than that of a Cox Golden Bee .049 which has an 8cc tank. I figure that should be plenty to have some fun with.
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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  NEW222 on Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:31 pm

WooHoo! Getting closer, and looking better every day!
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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  roddie on Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:21 am

NEW222 wrote:WooHoo! Getting closer, and looking better every day!

Thanks Chancey! I need to do some fillet-work at the wing/fuse joints. There's twelve points to fillet on this model. I'm going to try using some spackle-paste and apply a thin bead using a syringe.

I went a bit "heavy" with the thin CA/baking-soda accelerator on the center (cockpit/wing) joint.



I had cut the wing-slot too wide.. then to make matters worse.. Rolling Eyes prior to assembly.. I sanded the wing; reducing its' thickness from .125" nominal, to between .095"/.105". There's a 1/4" wide, chord-wise strip of 1/64" plywood glued to the bottom-center of the wing, to bridge the gap in that slot.

It's one of those things that I didn't plan-on. A mistake that cost the build; in "time".. figuring-out a viable solution, utilizing extra materials that I had on-hand.. and their application; to assure a strong-lightweight solution. Laughing blah blah blah..

I actually do "pride myself" in having a myriad of materials in my shop. The downside is.. my shop is small; so as I add items.. efficient organization is a continual work in progress.

I'd like to improve my "finishing-skills" as a modeler. I can't hold a candle to some of the folks here on CEF who show their Masterful skills in the build-photos that they post. Aesthetics have always been secondary to reliable mechanical-function for me.
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Thinking fillets

Post  roddie on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:21 pm

Today I decided to try making some fillets. The "plan" was to load some spackling-paste into a syringe.. and inject a bead along the wing/fuse joints.




As I mentioned.. there are 12 wing-joints on this model. I had a standard 10-12cc "oral-syringe" that came from a pharmacy.. and loaded the spackle into the barrel using a small flat tool having a radius on the end.. (a craft/popsicle-stick would work fine for this..)



My syringe had an opening of just over 1/16" diameter. (.067"/1.7mm) The ideal "bead-size" was approximately 3/32" (2.4mm) diameter.. for forming a fillet using a 1/4" (6mm) dowel-rod.. or tube.

Keeping a square paper-towel "pad" soaked with water in your work-area, helps to keep your tools/fingers/area clean. Dragging the "dowel-rod/tube" through the bead of spackle to form the fillet, causes the dowel/tool to accumulate spackle. "Twirling" the tool on the wet towel removes the excess-spackle.. and also leaves a wet-surface on the tool for smoothing-over the fillet. As with many finishing tasks.. it takes a little practice to develop a technique that you're happy with.

While I had the spackling-paste out.. I decided to fill some spots on the "T33-Dee".. and "Flying-Blind" CEF 2018 Speed-Models.. Smile



The above (T33-Dee) model; I had carelessly removed/reinstalled the wing, causing the retrofitted main-gear wire to "groove" the bottom-side of the soft-balsa wing-panel.. Doh! ... It was "one of those nights" where I should have been more careful.. and wasn't. On the "up-side".. I got a LOT of other things done.. where I usually procrastinate.

The "Flying-Blind" model received four fillets to the main-wing joint.



It may take a second-application of spackle to achieve the desired results.. but that's "OK"... I can't paint until the weather cooperates. So far.... it's been a fairly mild February here in Rhode Island. I'd like to see 50-60F temps consistent into March.. and maybe I can do some painting.
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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  Marleysky on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:54 pm

Hey! You are making progress. That fillet job was very interesting. I didn’t see any real “gaps “ in your construction that really required a filler. I’m gonna guess you just want a smooth beveled transition from fuse to wing, not to fill gaps in figment? I’m not sure from the amount you used there would be a huge difference in weight between the spackle you’ve used versus the light weight spackle that is used to fill small holes in drywall or as a filler, leveling material on balsa. The stuff I have used is like a fluffy frosting and weighs practically nothing, and sands off real smooth.


Here you can barely see the filler on the TE portion of the wing sheeting.
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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  rsv1cox on Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:07 pm

You had better luck with that lightweight spackling than I did Rene. I could not get it to apply correctly whether I wet the wood or not using that exact same brand. I finally resorted to my old standby, the stuff that roddie is using. But my preferred method has always been with epoxy smoothed out with either my finger or with a glove. Done right it does not need sanding and has always accepted paint well.

I'm eager to use this for fillets where strength is not a prime concern. Self mixing and applies as a bead. Problem is it's a one timer, so it must be used up on a model that is ready for it.





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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  Jason_WI on Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:39 pm

You better be quick on the draw with that 1 minute epoxy. It comes out hot out of the mixing tube and is gelled up in short order. No time for do overs with that stuff. I learned the hard way gluing a 3D printed SR-71 together. The seams are not quite even. I went back to the 5 minute stuff after that.
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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  roddie on Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:54 pm

Thanks VERY MUCH for the replies Bob and Rene.. I don't have a lot of experience with making fillets. I "do" have a lot of experience with sanding... Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

I don't really mind sanding... as long as it's not laborious. There's no need for that when we're building a small "sport-model". I try to "draw the line" there. It really depends on how I feel about the project. If it's a "one-of-a-kind" thing.. it would deserve some extra-attention... but I've never built "that type" of model.

Machines that "work".. or.. models of them.... don't stay "pretty-looking" for long after their operation. It's up to us to clean them up afterwards... and make them ready for their next mission......
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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  rsv1cox on Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:01 pm

You sure have put a lot of time, thought, and effort into that model roddie. It's going to turn out wonderful. I can't wait to see your paint scheme. As I have mentioned before and you alluded to, everything from solid to quite involved.

Bob
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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

Post  roddie on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:51 am

Marleysky wrote:Hey! You are making progress. That fillet job was very interesting. I didn’t see any real “gaps “ in your construction that really required a filler. I’m gonna guess you just want a smooth beveled transition from fuse to wing, not to fill gaps in figment?

There were some gaps in the cockpit-module joint.. but all of the wing-slot joints were glued-up using thin-CA, then sprinkled with baking-soda. This formed small fillets which had a crystalline texture and were not uniform. Left untreated; these glue-fillets would have looked crappy.

I've never used the "lightweight" spackle. I should give it a try.. but I didn't use very much of the regular/heavier stuff on this model. As I mentioned; the bead-size was approx. 3/32" and was filleted using a 1/4" diameter wood dowel. This combination was just enough to form a small/neat radius.. with a minimum ridge needing sanding. The syringe worked really well.. and was easy to clean-up afterward, using warm water.
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Thinking Re: P-38 Lightning-Roddie style..

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