First Black Widow

Hmmmmm.............

By 5 early BW's have red aluminum spinners not rubber spinners.

SuperDave wrote:Hmmmmm.............

By 5 early BW's have red aluminum spinners not rubber spinners.

Super Dave,

This is what is on the wikipedia site. It's what I was going off of.

1973 Black Widow (Cat#150 - Manufactured May 1973-Jan 1996)
During the 70s a couple of Cox engineers were playing around with different colored Babe Bee and Golden Bee parts and came up with an all black engine with a red spinner. They hopped it up a bit with a dual bypass cylinder from a Medallion, a black Golden Bee tank and a slightly larger (0.062") venturi intake. The Black Widow was born. These engines were marketed as a High Powered Combat Engine. On later Black Widows the red rubber spinner was replaced by a red anodized aluminum Tee Dee style spinner. In the late 1990s some Black Widows were produced with the a dual bypass slit exhaust cylinder. The slit exhaust was to prevent fires. According to an Aeromodeller engine test done in August 1974 the Black Widow on 25% Nitro output power was 0.08 bhp (60 watts) at 15,000 rpm with a max. torque of 6 oz.in at 9,000 rpm.[14]

Ron:

The red spinner idea is entirely consistant with a Black Widow spider from which the Cox engine took it's name. An actual Black Widow spider is identified by a red spot on it's under-belly.

I well remember encoutering Black Widows, Scorpions and Tarantulas while on US Army desert manuvers in California. We were warned to give them respect and a wide berth.

All of my red aluminum spinners show wear marks from stopping engine running in the wrong direction by piniching fingers on the spinner. Red rubber spinners don't have that problem and are less-expensive to produce for the manufactuer.

"Correctness" at that point is an decision for the engine owner.

Marketing-wise was this was a clever move by Cox adding a rather threatening name to the new #150 product-line

Here is the website I had seen.
http://livingmasterpiece.com/stoneway/restore_engine.asp

Interesting Travis,

Would like to hear more from our resident experts here on this. That story you provided conflicts with the Wikipedia version.

I suggested earlier this week in another thread Ron that we should have a section on the forum where we compile
a definitive history of the brand but only from sources that are irrefutable ie date stamped boxes, mag articles,
advertisments etc. I'll fire off a PM to Jacob over the weekend to see if he's agreeable.
As for the sparse internet information, a lot of it is 'advisory' at best I'd say.

John Goddard wrote:I suggested earlier this week in another thread Ron that we should have a section on the forum where we compile
a definitive history of the brand but only from sources that are irrefutable ie date stamped boxes, mag articles,
advertisments etc. I'll fire off a PM to Jacob over the weekend to see if he's agreeable.
As for the sparse internet information, a lot of it is 'advisory' at best I'd say.

A darn good idea John! I agree the internet is not always reliable. I gave ya a rep point for the idea!

Mille Grazzi Ron

SuperDave wrote:Ron:

The red spinner idea is entirely consistant with a Black Widow spider from which the Cox engine took it's name. An actual Black Widow spider is identified by a red spot on it's under-belly.

I well remember encoutering Black Widows, Scorpions and Tarantulas while on US Army desert manuvers in California. We were warned to give them respect and a wide berth.

All of my red aluminum spinners show wear marks from stopping engine running in the wrong direction by piniching fingers on the spinner. Red rubber spinners don't have that problem and are less-expensive to produce for the manufactuer.

"Correctness" at that point is an decision for the engine owner.

Marketing-wise was this was a clever move by Cox adding a rather threatening name to the new #150 product-line

Yeah it was a good marketing ploy for sure. I too run into nasties quite often in my line of work. I don't get the luxury of giving them a wide berth.

John Goddard wrote:Mille Grazzi Ron

Gotta give credit where credit is due!

Sorry for the hijack Travis, maybe I should lose a rep point.....

cribbs74 wrote:Strange,

They came out in 1973 I thought. Also thought they were black with a red rubber spinner and a no drag spring starter.

Cue Tommy Coopers voice
"Just like That ha ha"

But Oh Oh look at that case

These are mine running oldest near camera to new at rear.
A few differences in just 4 examples.

Goodness!!!!

Now I am confused, silver case black tank and red spinner. You just upped the ante John.....

Are you sure it's not a hybrid of sorts?

Who can say Ron.
The example I'd use is the one above the chrome case. I'd put money on the fact that until I got my hands on it, it had never seen a wrench or any tool whatsoever but Indra (I think I'm right in saying) would put money on the cylinder having been changed at some point because it has a split exhaust port.
I think if you take a step back from the 2 views it points to perceived wisdom (ie what is available on just a few websites)
isn't necessarily 'gospel' and these engines were perhaps thrown together with different bits on from time to time.
I wish I had taken a screen shot but just before Christmas there was a guy selling a Mexican Market NIB airplane
called the Cox (whatever a black widow is in Spanish) with the bw engine in it, the ccase was def chrome and
it still had the cellophane on the box.

Ask Larry Renger (designman), he was one of the designers. Not sure if he frequents this board.

If I understand correctly, it used essentially a Golden Bee with larger venturi, Tee Dee piston/cylinder and glow plug.

They chose black and red cosmetics to go with the Black Widow name. I first saw it with the red aluminum spinner but perhaps the rubber one came first.

George

There was one on eBay a couple weeks ago George in a crystal box which (again who knows if this is right) general consensus is 62 to 76 and that had rubber. I'd say that means rubber if not at the beginning was certainly within the first three years of production.

I have one with a rubber spinner but I bought it on an auction site so I don't know its history. Here is a pic of it along with an old Space Bug.



George

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260945471132&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123 exhibit a of a later days BW ,
(B)http://www.ebay.com/itm/280817025197?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
And (C) http://www.ebay.com/itm/110813249992?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

In reverse order of course,and ther as 1 more example,the estes plastic cases

Warren's info on his Wikipedia page is correct, the first version had a rubber spinner and the stepped cylinder. Jasper's and George's photos above is correct.
Every thick non-stepped, large port cylinder (made '75-'79) I've ever seen had the anodized Tee Dee spinner.
I'm pretty sure the early version had a black case not silver and that was something that came out much later.