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Post  pegin964 Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:08 am

By some luck and creative Googling, i obtained in past month five vintage diesel engines, some at flea maket , other at local auction sites , here in Serbia.
In total, i have four brand new, Hungarian 1 cc FOK 10 ( 1963 .) , Yugoslav AERO 150 ( 1952) , Czech Modela MVVS 1,5D (1980's) and SSSR OTM Striz 1,5 cc (Swallow) (1975.) and well used, Hungarian FOK 15 1,5cc (1964. my peer :-) ).

My DIESEL fleet and Diesel fuel blending DIY 7mBCveF

Since i last time flew my control line on diesel is 1982, i was puzzled where to obtain fuel , Ether is unobtanium , at least not on free market.

And there YOUTUBE helps a lot.

https://youtu.be/Nvc2JFZLeZg

Great source for ether is Starting fluid for car engines, especially the John Deere MCB080 one, which contains some 80% of Ether, while other car starting fuel brands contains 25-50% , like Motop, KLEEN. WURTH, K2 etc.

So, i searched in my city and found John Deere Starting fluid ( in tractor spare parts shop), Petroleum ( in paint store) and Castor oil (in pharmacy) and blended my own mix, 1:1:1 , equal parts of each component.

My DIESEL fleet and Diesel fuel blending DIY Z3Zc6io

My DIESEL fleet and Diesel fuel blending DIY NyPIc8W

Hope will test all these engines soon, and take some videos of test runs.

Cheers
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Post  gkamysz Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:42 am

Lamp oil will be OK, though some can be a much heavier cut than kerosene. Once you get starting and running figured out, you can reduce the oil content to ~25%. The 80% ether in Deere starting fluid is essentially the only liquid in the the can(they also add oil for upper cylinder lube). The rest is the propellant gas which doesn't end up in the fuel.
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Post  pegin964 Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:54 am

@gkamysz wrote:The 80% ether in Deere starting fluid is essentially the only liquid in the the can(they also add oil for upper cylinder lube). The rest is the propellant gas which doesn't end up in the fuel.
Thanx for the comment and tip for Deere can content, its great, so no fuzz with Hepthanes, Epthanes, Butanes, Chloroethanes
added in other brands Start Spray's.
Easyest to calculate mixing ratios.
Thanx.
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Post  Gordinir8 Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:10 pm

Just make sure you put your fuel in a glass or metallic container NOT plastic. Nice engines you got there
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Post  davidll1984 Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:05 pm

I should ask a friend when he goes to pick up pieces of John Deere retailers it's far for me just for some bottle It's been a long time since I haven't tried again The last time I used klenflo stuf I don't need to tell you why I was having difficulty To start m'y litle cox engine I succeeded after bending a connecting rod Break a crank pin and lets Say I was very surprised to hear it start I have some engine designed for diesel I should give it a try I could install the .40 irving on my old .40 trainer Huh... Looks like a good economical choice Compare with nitro
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Post  Yabby Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:22 pm

Nice engines! cheers sunny

I gotta stop reading CEF. Just too many cool ideas and stuff I read and see! lol! I Love This Forum! Now I want to get and try and 049 diesel, ive got the Cox conversion kit, but Im thinking a 049 diesel made as an 049 diesel.

Good stuff pegin! keen to see your reports and any test run videos etc. Thumbs Up

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Post  Oldenginerod Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:06 am

Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure I have around 12 diesels. I've ran all the ones that are complete. I thought a while back that I'd like a Cox diesel conversion, but I now really have no great desire for one. I'd prefer to stick with engines which were purpose-built as diesels. One that I'd really like is an OK Cub diesel, being American, which is pretty rare as diesels were not popular there at that time. The only other I can think of (I'm no expert) is the McCoy DuraGlow.
Having a Cub (or McCoy) in the collection would add another nation. I have English, Australian, Indian, Chinese & Russian. I reckon my engine collecting has just about finished due to engine and postage prices these days.
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Post  Oldenginerod Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:10 am

As for fuel, I don't believe the JD starting fluid is sold out here. Once my supply of (really old) diesel fuel runs out I'll have to test my theory about "Master" starting fluid (which I can get) which is 50% ether, the rest being Heptane, so no need to add kerosene. That's the highest Ether content I can find in Oz.
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Post  sosam117 Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:04 am

@Yabby wrote:Nice engines! cheers sunny

I gotta stop reading CEF. Just too many cool ideas and stuff I read and see! lol! I Love This Forum! Now I want to get and try and 049 diesel, ive got the Cox conversion kit, but Im thinking a 049 diesel made as an 049 diesel.

Good stuff pegin! keen to see your reports and any test run videos etc.  Thumbs Up

Yabby

If you want to purchase a .049 diesel, PAW engines are a good start.
They are forgiving engines if you are going to learn how to run a diesel.
The PAW 15 was my first diesel.

The little diesels are a little harder to start (.03 and .049)
They like to have a little Amyl nitrate ( up to 2%) in the fuel for easy starting / running.
But getting Amyl nitrate is hard to find. You could use any octane booster?

Here in the U.S.A. the only place I can get premixed diesel fuel is from Aerodyne (Al Heinrich)
Al only sells it by the quart so it can get past the postal service hazmat shipping fees.
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Post  getback Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:48 am

Good looking bunch of diesel's there , can't wait to hear them sing a tune ! Very Happy
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Post  ffkiwi Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:11 pm

@sosam117 wrote:[

Here in the U.S.A. the only place I can get premixed diesel fuel is from Aerodyne (Al Heinrich)
Al only sells it by the quart so it can get past the postal service hazmat shipping fees.

You mentioned PAW diesels in your reply above....Eric Clutton the US PAW agent -trading as 'Dr Diesel' used to supply ready mixed diesel fuel-and he's in Tennessee-a lot closer to you....have you checked with him about availability?

ChrisM
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Post  sosam117 Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:58 pm

@ffkiwi wrote:
@sosam117 wrote:[

Here in the U.S.A. the only place I can get premixed diesel fuel is from Aerodyne (Al Heinrich)
Al only sells it by the quart so it can get past the postal service hazmat shipping fees.

You mentioned PAW diesels in your reply  above....Eric Clutton the US PAW agent -trading as 'Dr Diesel' used to supply ready mixed diesel fuel-and he's in Tennessee-a lot closer to you....have you checked with him about availability?

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'

Eric Clutton (Dr. Diesel) use to get his diesel fuel from Allen Heinrich (Aerodyne)
but Eric has not been selling the diesel fuel for 3 years now.

Last time I got diesel fuel from Dr. Diesel for my 03 to 06 size small diesels was at Toledo five years ago
and Eric didn't have that much fuel there to sell.
The fuel he sold for the small diesels were marked 1/2A
because the mix was different for the small engines verses the bigger diesel engines.

I have contacted Eric and purchased two PAW 55 BR (with R/c throttle) in 2018 and did inquire about the 1/2A diesel fuel.
Eric told me to contact Aerodyne to get my diesel fuel because that is where he was getting it for years.

Five days ago I emailed Aerodyne for diesel fuel and have yet to receive an answer?
I have asked some friends that fly diesels in SAM (Society of Antique Modelers) and they think Allen has no more ether?
I hope not?

I love my simple to run PAW engines (all 57 PAW engines). Sad
My DIESEL fleet and Diesel fuel blending DIY Img_0102
My DIESEL fleet and Diesel fuel blending DIY Paw_en10

I have no problem with getting the Amyl Nitrate. Have a qt. bottle yet on hand.
My DIESEL fleet and Diesel fuel blending DIY Amyl_n11


Last edited by sosam117 on Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:04 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added Amyl Nitrate)
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Post  ffkiwi Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:14 pm

Well it looks like you'll have to get used to going the John Deere engine start route then....either that or make friends with a high school chemistry teacher. Ether is becoming a tightly controlled substance in most countries around the world-but still available -with some limitations, in countries like the UK, Australia and NZ-though in our (NZ) case you cant just walk in off the street and purchase it. We here in NZ are fortunate in having a couple of people so dedicated to their modelling that they have gone to the extra effort of getting licensed, doing the appropriate H&S handling courses, and building suitable storage facilities (to meet the licensing requirements)- so that the rest of us can continue to enjoy our diesels-at significant personal expense as well as time to the individuals concerned. Some people go far and beyond-for the benefit of the rest.....

ChrisM
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PS And before anyone asks-there is NO-repeat NO alternative to diethyl ether-there is no other chemical compound you can substitute for it in model diesel fuel....and I state this wearing my chemistry PhD hat, not my modeller's hat
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Post  Ken Cook Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:20 pm

I recently retrofitted my PAW .049 to my Stork. I had a Norvel .061 on it and it needed a lot of nose weight so I traded it in for the PAW. Runs are spectacular and flying it is a joy. Easy starts and more than enough power. What a smooth runner. Today the winds were a steady 15 mph and this was just cutting right through it with no wind up.
My DIESEL fleet and Diesel fuel blending DIY Dscn3022
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Post  atesus Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:46 am

Even though diethyl ether seems to be available through Amazon for me, JD starting fluid is still a much cheaper solution, it seems. 500ml of diethyl ether is priced at $54 whereas a can of JD which contains about 150ml of ether costs less than $5. I still wonder if there would be any difference between the two products.
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Post  sosam117 Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:43 am

@atesus wrote:Even though diethyl ether seems to be available through Amazon for me, JD starting fluid is  still a much cheaper solution, it seems. 500ml of diethyl ether is priced at $54 whereas a can of JD which contains about 150ml of ether costs less than $5. I still wonder if there would be any difference between the two products.

As stated earlier in this thread. John Deere starting fluid is about 80% ether with the 20% being some type of upper lubricant (kerosene?) and propellant.

A club mate (Jack) blends his own fuel with the JD starting fluid, kerosene, caster oil, and cetane booster (about 1%).
If I don't get an answer from Aerodyne for diesel fuel, I'll have to ask Jack to show me how he makes his fuel?

I know he puts the JD starting fluid in the fridge to cool the can down before carefully picking a hole in the can to get the ether out.
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Post  atesus Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:56 am

I spray JD directly into a graduated cylinder and I add in castor oil. Last I add the kerosene (or lately I switched to lamp oil). I empty the contents of the cylinder to the container and I repeat the transfer a couple more times to make sure that all of the castor oil in the cylinder is mixed into the mixture.

Drdiesel's recommendation for PAW 55 and 80 was 40% JD, 40% kerosene and 20% castor oil -though one probably needs more castor during break-in. He also noted that the cetane booster doesn't do anything for smaller engines and must be added no more than 2% for larger ones. All percentages are by volume.

I have eventually switched to 40% JD, 30% lamp oil and 30% castor oil and I usually mix about 100ml at a time. The lamp oil I use is Lamplight Farms Ultra Pure Clean Burn Lamp Oil Clear. I really haven't noticed a static RPM difference between lamp oil and 1-K kerosene. The lamp oil has similar but a less pronounced odor compared to kerosene.
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Post  gkamysz Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:13 am

@sosam117 wrote:As stated earlier in this thread. John Deere starting fluid is about 80% ether with the 20% being some type of upper lubricant (kerosene?) and propellant.

The lube is oil of some kind. Some people say that fuel made with JD runs very dark in the exhaust. This has always been my experience, but I've never had any clean ether to try and haven't run a two stroke diesel in ages.

The risk of cooling the JD and pouring, is that there may still be propellant dissolved in the ether and resulting fuel mix. If used immediately, it can come out out of solution in the fuel lines or carb leading to trouble running.
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