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Post  TexasWade Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:51 pm

Got this one today... eBay seller says never been out of the box... well I guess I changed that status since the paper box slid out of the top cover while I was rolling it around taking pictures!  I doubt the seller's claim, but seems at least plausible.  The thing reeks of ancient paper and I don't see any evidence of it having been off the card it's tied to.   Won it for $86, which seems like almost a steal compared to some of the other Tee Dee .020's I've seen selling and even sold.

I bought it intending to run it, but I kind of hate to unpack the darn thing!  What do you guys think, this isn't something particularly special or rare, is it?   And those who know, would it have come with wrenches or not?  I'm thinking I'll probably get a prop and some wrenches for it and let er rip unless someone convinces me otherwise...

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Post  sosam117 Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:41 pm

There should have been a Cox wrench for that engine in the black base?
The little carboard box that is the base of the jeweled case.

Still, a nice looking engine.
The plastic (tank and rear mount) is in good shape.
And the red body venturi is not cracked.

When the engines with the plastic get old, the plastic gets brittle, even more so when it comes into contact with the glow fuel (over time)
I think the alcohol in the fuel makes the plastic brittle?
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Post  Marleysky Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:04 pm


Do you wanna have a hundred dollars of FUN? Or, do you want to have hundred in your wallet....sometime in the future? Keep the box and paperwork in a safe place and run that engine, fly that plane! Have some fun burnin' nitro. Someone will probably pay you for the crystal display case in the future, while you had fun running the engine!! my Two Cents
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Post  944_Jim Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:10 pm

I've got two antique motorcycles and two antique cars. I jokingly call myself the curator of a private transportation museum. None of them are much fun to look at in their holding spaces. All of them are much more fun while operating them...especially when I get stopped so the onlooker(s) can check them out!

Same for the model engines, AFX slot cars, N-scale railroad...not much fun looking at static toys in a toy shop. I did enough of that as a kid while staring at them when my family couldn't afford them.
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Post  Cribbs74 Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:44 pm

Wade,

Plan on living forever? Do you think it will be cherished and hold it’s value in 100yrs?

I am leaning towards running it however, if it were me, I would sell it to a collector, make more money and buy another one or two that are used already. Collector is happy, you are happy.
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Post  TexasWade Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:49 pm

Alright then, I'm convinced that she needs to RUN!

If the jewel case looked pristine and the wrenches were in there it might be a more difficult choice, but I don't have to worry about those things.    I've seen some sell for $125, but you know what?  After adding what I paid for shipping and sales tax, I'm into this engine for something like $101.00.  If I were to resell it (on the Bay) I'd have the seller fees to pay and I'd have to ship the darn thing etc.  Even if I got the premium price I don't think it'd be worth the hassle.  Yep, let's forget about that idea and enjoy that little gem =)  

Appreciate the inputs!
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Post  davidll1984 Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:07 am

It's quite easy to keep clean to put it back in the box I see no direrence to use or new it is the same A colector only prolongs the life one day someone will use it after al old like new look Good To
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Post  getback Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:35 am

cheers cheers WE have a decision to Run , Keep us informed and video would bee nice .Enjoy !! Small Cox Logo
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Post  706jim Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:29 am

I have the same concerns. I have some new 0.010's NIB and realize they are more valuable if untouched. A real consideration is the fact that us "collectors" are aging and there are fewer following us to buy this stuff. In other words, the collectable value may begin to decrease soon.

In that case you should run the engine.
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Post  rsv1cox Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:58 am

I'm a firm believer that vintage NIB engines should be left NIB. They are not making these any more. A moments fun is small reward for forever removing that title.

I buy a second used engine, run that and get the same thrill without the guilt.

Just me!
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Post  balogh Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:04 pm

I have a few NIB 020-s and one in active use. This critter has been in RC service for years, gone through unplanned landings, has thrown a prop with exploded hub at least once and run unloaded way above 30k for some time. Yet is as new, with a full compression and nice pinch at TDC. Old stock with thin wall cylinder and tapered bore..
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Except for the shiny red aluminum carb body, all parts are original.


All I am saying is that while it gives plenty of pleasure in use, it stays in excellent condition for a very long time...use it and you will want to buy yet another one as a collector's item and build a ship for this one...keep it clean, save from lean runs and have 20% castor in your fuel...it spins the 3bladed COX prop at 24+k rpm..
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Post  cstatman Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:00 pm

@706jim wrote: us "collectors" are aging and there are fewer following us to buy this stuff.

this right here.

My dad was a stamp collector. as in, collector, dealer, expert.
when he realized what illness and how long he had left, he sold the majority of his collection, so his kids wouldn't have to figure it all out. Is this bit of paper worth 4 cents or $4k? is the dealer telling you truth, or screwing you over... the only way to know? is to become a stamp collector.

Dad was infatuated with the Graf Zeppelin. There was a set of stamps called the zeps, 3 stamps, 3 zeppelins. He had 3, cancelled, great condition, first day covers, that had FLOWN on each of the three zeppelins.

at one point, the 3 stamps were worth enough to have paid for my college. Now? they are probably worth $5k and dropping. He kept them, and gave them to me when he died. I'll keep em. my son will have them. the value will continue to drop

The boxes of stamps left over after he passed? I dunno what they were worth, I called an auction house that specialized in stamps.

the great guy on the phone knew my dad, explained he sold his "gems" and the rest was really not worth that much. THEN! we had the discussion about collectible.

Gold - the pyramids were lined with gold. it has been valuable for a long time. Everything else is shifting.

People want the things they couldn't have or did have when they were younger. If you grew up in the 70s? you wanted the cool thing your friends had. I like motorbikes. late 1960s Hondas, cause that was cool when I was younger. I'm not so interested in 1940s war era bikes, cause? they were in museums when I was a kid.

1969 Camaro. Super desirable - but who wants a 1923 Jewett? Super cool car, but.....
Kids now? heck, gasoline may not even be around in 20 years, except for collectors. and the kids sure arent gonna get all nostalgic for a crappy Prius.


Well, same for cox motors. WE, the guys on this group? really like em. And are willing to pay STUPID money for em on eBay. EVEN THOUGH we remember 5 gallon buckets of them selling for $5 at the flea market when we were teenagers.

My son? likes flying my planes, but really? it has no meaning to him. NONE of his friends gives a hoot about cox motors. it wasnt something they played with.

As fast as the world is changing, its difficult to tell WHAT the next generation will be nostalgic for.

Yank that sucker out, slap it on a plane and fly it.
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Post  rsv1cox Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:29 pm

Wow Cstat, it's been a long time since I have read such well presented and thought out opinion. And, I read a lot. And naturally I agree with all of it and none of it.

"Value" is something unique to the owner. What's valuable to me may be worth nothing to you as you alluded to. It's an individual process.

I have an extensive stamp collection started in my pre-teens. Every family member chipped in. Aunts', Uncles', going abroad, Worlds Fair, whatever event I got a stamp. Mom set me up with a "First Day of Issues" club. Got every one from about 1945 to the mid fifties. Albums stuffed full. Never thought of them as a money maker or investment. Gold, precious metals, another matter.

Every word that you wrote about motor bikes and cars. 100% true. Everyone today wants a muscle car from the 1960's/'70's, while that 1946 Plymouth is difficult to move. It's a generational thing. (I check in on "Bring-a-trailer" every day.) But, what draws the big money is that low mileage example. Condition is everything. Same with model engines.

Anyone that reads my posts know that I get far more fun out of a used up piece of junk than I do some new in the box motor. (I give them away Smile) But the few that I keep will not be used, by me at least. I think, that Cox engines especially in the future will be collected and regarded as works of art, and art retains value.
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Post  Ken Cook Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:44 pm

I personally would run it. This stuff has little value and I wouldn't bank on it having any in the future. You don't need some piece of abused crap to start with. Fly the new one and enjoy it without issues. Your in control of it's destiny. I'm a user and not a collector which means that I use it and I don't want to be screwing with it at the field.
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Post  rsv1cox Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:13 pm

@Ken Cook wrote:           I personally would run it. This stuff has little value and I wouldn't bank on it having any in the future. You don't need some piece of abused crap to start with. Fly the new one and enjoy it without issues. Your in control of it's destiny. I'm a user and not a collector which means that I use it and I don't want to be screwing with it at the field.

Words of wisdom Ken, but I do so love these little pieces of crap and like to see them preserved. Smile Smile

Who knows, some reemergent caveman (present generation is well on our way to self-distruction - no defence hypersonic missles etc.) eons from now will find my flyaway Space Bug Jr. and hold it up to the sky like the Ape did in 2001 A Space Odyssey. Old Bugger

Bob
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Post  andrew Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:46 pm

Fire it up! Fire it up! Fire it up!

Sorry, Bob.

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Post  Levent Suberk Thu Nov 04, 2021 7:03 pm

If I were you I run it. I always like to run a NIB engine, it has a different feeling. After run, I clean and oil it, and repack.
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Post  rsv1cox Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:54 am

@andrew wrote:Fire it up! Fire it up! Fire it up!

Sorry, Bob.

andrew

No problem Andrew, It's a free country. It is after all just a engine designed to be used. But there are thousands upon thousands of used ones out there, why sacrifice a rare new one for a moments thrill.
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Post  Marleysky Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:01 am

@rsv1cox wrote:
@andrew wrote:Fire it up! Fire it up! Fire it up!

Sorry, Bob.

andrew

No problem Andrew, It's a free country.  It is after all just a engine designed to be used.  But there are thousands upon thousands of used ones out there, why sacrifice a rare new one for a moments thrill.  

No politics or religion....but some cultures require a sacrifical virgin to appease the gods, change the climate or improve ones lot in life. Yeah, she was a virgin until I got my hands on her prop...POP!
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Post  66 Malibu Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:28 am

My unopened TeeDee.020 jewel box also came with a silver colored wrench and a grey 4.5 X 2 prop.
Since it has a $16.00 hobby shop price sticker on the box , it is a display piece beside a NIB clam shell pack Tee Dee .020.
Flying duties will be handled by a number of other slightly used or new no box TeeDee .020 engines.
The beauty of the hobby is that you have final say on everything !!
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Post  cstatman Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:50 am

@rsv1cox wrote:I get far more fun out of a used up piece of junk  


ME too.
it started out cause I was poor and cheap.
then, as I learned to use tools, clean, rebuild, make?
I realized I enjoy that more.

my favorite is true barn-find motorcycles.

BaT is dangerous for me, because I see cars, then think "i know where one of those is, if I bought it cheap....."

My mechanical mentor was a huge fan of Alexander Weygers, author of "the modern blacksmith"
and here, I've been living in the SF Bay area for over 21 years, and STILL have not gone to the Weygers place in Carmel Valley
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-11-19/the-forgotten-legend-of-silicon-valley-s-flying-saucer-man

My mentor was convinced, knowing how to make your own tools was the key to any successful mechanical adventure
https://www.amazon.com/Making-Tools-Alexander-Weygers/dp/0442293615/

so I learned to blacksmith tools, then to make them on a modern lathe. It's true, when we have to think HOW will we build a tool or jig to repair something, we learn and think what steps the repair will take

Sadly, I am still an amateur when it comes to the cox motors. I am absolutely over-thinking them, but anyhow

Smile

Old junk is the most fun junk
put them motors on a plane and get em flyin!
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Post  layback209 Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:49 am

Enjoyed reading through this thread.  

Let us know how she runs. Looks fantastic. Easily worth $100 of fun. Nothing like the thrill a new motor.

Do what get you the most enjoyment. For me sometimes it's the thrill of the hunt, process of fixing another person's "junk" and rewarding to put it back in service.  Durring the early Covid days it's been very interesting on the market place front.... I've seen things for sale I haven't seen for 20yrs or at all before and at sensible prices requiring much self control  Laughing a lot of the things that appealed to me were the stuff I couldn't afford in my youth.  Namely nitro rc cars from the mid 90s to the early 2000s. I feel like I'm getting my fill now and will be looking to downsize some, depending on if my kids show interest.

That being said also enjoy running a new motor in, the excitement of the first crank up, am I doing it right, I read the manual 100 times. And knowing it's going to be reliable at the field.  I wanna fly not tinker at the field lol

As mentioned above though I do find myself running all the used motors to their limits before dipping into the new ones. Which has cut some days fun a bit short. But I know I got the most out of it before putting it in the part graveyard. From this summer a mach 427 (.27), mccoy 35 and potentially an enya 15 will be retired, do to low compression.  Nitro motors die a slow death.  If you run these in cold conditions they still have a little more to give.
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Post  firstwordisee Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:21 pm

I too have the same issue issue. Picked up a Pee Wee new in package for $65 shipped and put it behind glass with some other old stuff, nice to look at. Couldnt get my lightly used Pee Wee running, just wanted to hear one run so I almost broke it out! Decided to rebuilt instead, since this engine is for a free flight plane I will probably use the rebuilt until it flies away, then try to find another used one to rebuild and so on. Its nice to know there is a new one sitting there if I every really need it but I dont think it will be opened. I believe these little engines will continue to increase in value even after all the old folks are gone. I didnt look at them for 30 years and couldnt believe what they cost now.
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Post  TexasWade Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:12 pm

Wow, look at that!  Don't visit for a few days and see what happens...

So this poor thing has definitely been out of the box as I discovered as soon as I attempted to hear the first POP.   No way, someone had seriously dinged it!  No way of knowing if it was the Ebay seller, or his dad/kid/previous owner... plausible deniability.  I decided to just deal with it since the rest of the parts look perfect.  First of all, I took the cylinder and head off with my fingers only. It wasn't even tight at all.  But the head was REALLY on there.  Like so tight I was afraid I was going to damage something trying to take it apart.  But I got it.  Wow, check out that ding.. I said some bad words about someones mother when I saw this one...

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Well I got out my little screwdriver and x-acto and got to work scraping and burnishing that thing down.  Ended up shoving a .300 gage pin through there with just my fingers (dead perfect fit) and after that, the piston slides through nicely.  Really nice and tight up top too, I'm sure it never saw fuel.  Everything else inside looks perfect and shows no signs of use.  But I'm wondering what the F is up with the conrod play.. it's like .008" end movement.  Seems excessive to me so I'm thinking I'll get the tool and tighten it up a bit.  Oddly, my .010 had about .009" end play before I tightened it up.  Can someone tell me what Cox factory spec was on that assembly? Possible that that kind of play is actually OK or even desired?  

Also ran across a very sweet deal on a bunch-o-Cox stuff the other day, so now I have a second Tee Dee .049 that seems to be a bit nicer than the first, as well as a very nice Tee Dee .09.  That .09 is what I was really after, but I also got about a half dozen reedies, a nice handful of props, and maybe a full dozen fuel tanks. Plus some other miscellaneous parts including all the wrenches I'll ever need. Man, I am all set now!   I think... famous last words, right?  I think my collection is going to be complete with those 4 since I'm not really interested in getting a .15.   Well maybe, but it better be cheap.  I already have too many .15's and .19's hanging around and I'm sure a Cox .15 will be insanely LOUD  Huh...  

I got a set of 4 aluminum backplates on order from Kamtechnik but Greg doesn't have them all right now.  Hopefully, I'll have those in a few weeks and it'll be time to run em all!  With video of course.  Smile  
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Post  TexasWade Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:47 pm

It's alive!!!  Looks like I wasn't too heavy-handed with my cylinder ding repair, whew.  Might be a bit down on RPM but I'm happy enough that she's a runner now   cheers

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