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Cox Engine of The Month
March-2023
rdw777's

"Cox .020 w/Homemade Throttle - Pageboy"



PAST WINNERS
CEF Traveling Engine

Win This Engine!
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Post  getback Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:56 am

Wow with all that for carbon copying the lines and tissue to make the lines you have are in my mine a artist at work and allot of fun evolved to make it look this good . Kudos to you my friend ! I Love This Forum! I had seen Mark (Batjac) do the checkered board in monakote and was impressed with the final , but I believe this looks better in ole time design .
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Post  MauricioB Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:54 am

rdw777 wrote:Trim time…. My favorite part Very Happy

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It is certain that you already explained it, but I want to make sure that I understand, so I congratulate you for the work!, and I ask you later:
That in yellow, blue, red, is it some kind of colored paper?, to which you then place it on the raft and apply dope?
What kind of material is that paper or what is it called commercially?
Thank you!
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Post  rdw777 Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:45 pm

Thank you George!!! Same concept as your beautiful Roaring 20 you have recently shared…. Kind of fits the period too…

Thanks Eric!…. Yes, I’ve seen Mark’s work…. Absolutely beautiful!!! …. Also, It was Mark that outlined how to modify A helicopter .020 backplate to fit in a PeeWee’s footprint that I will use on this plane …. And Mauricio’s recommendation that the heli backplate was good for RC work….And Ken’s Bee tuning tutorials…. and….and … All a team effort friend…. CEF has been great!!!

Hi Mauricio… The blue in the photo are patterns (or templates) made from poster board (thin cardboard) …. Yes, the actual trim pieces are paper…. Commonly called tissue paper here…. Similar to a paper someone may wrap a gift in….The best tissue paper more suitable for model use is made in Japan…. Japanese tissue paper will hold its color and not fade like some inexpensive papers can…I get mine from Volare Products…

https://volareproducts.com/blog/?product_cat=esaki

The raft (balsa) is given two thin coats of clear dope first, sand paper between the coats, Then the trim tissue paper is placed exactly where you want, Then thinner or acetone is brushed directly on the paper and the dope underneath will re-activate and adhere the paper immediately …

It’s actually a very old system that was common and many here will be  acquainted with…. It’s advantage is its light weight, The finish on my plane only added about 3 grams…. It’s also easy to
repair …. Disadvantage is can be weak on open structures…. Many of the old magazine articles from the 1950’s and 60’s on OZ have tips on how to do it….Also some good tutorials on you tube but more modern methods and less harsh chemicals…., I just happened to have a good supply of dope and paper
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Post  MauricioB Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:49 am

The explanation has been very clear to me friend, thank you very much.
So I have used that material, although I doubt that it is real Japanese paper, rather what I have used many years ago in my UControl models, it is called kite paper, also called Japanese paper, but I doubt as I said before that it is Japanese. rather it was manufactured here in my country.
It had low quality, the colors ran, but it was good for entertaining when one was learning to use these materials.
It was very fragile, any grass could pierce it between the ribs of the wing, when that happened, another piece of paper and dope was placed, and thus it was fixed to continue flying.
Beautiful experience, beautiful years of my adolescence.
Thanks again for your time friend!
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Post  rdw777 Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:18 pm

Calling it done Thumbs Up …..Will wait for that just right weather day and give it a shot!!…. I have some fresh batteries coming for it too….I’m already humbled by the many kind things that have been said so let’s see if he’ll really fly next Very Happy…. Came out a 110 g - 3.88 oz less fuel….

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X- Ray for Half A Dave  Thumbs Up

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Post  balogh Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:22 pm

That bird looks gorgeous, Robert...and 110 grams is just really light, it will glide long after the engine stops.

Looking forward to hearing from the maiden flight.
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Post  Yabby Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:09 pm

That is a truly magnificent build Robert! As with all the others I keenly await the maiden flight report and hope it exceeds all of your expectations!

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Post  getback Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:20 am

Very Nice !! I like the colors and natural wood / grained too Hoot Hoot I am sure it will fly as good as it looks . RC Plane Popcorn
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Post  rdw777 Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:47 am

Thank you Gentlemen, I’m looking forward to it!! Small Cox Logo Small Cox Logo Small Cox Logo
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Post  rsv1cox Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:36 am

I love the wheels Robert. Look vintage like what Williams Bros puts out but I would think that you built your own.

My go-to is Luan, a hole saw and some sanding. But I would think your's are more sophisticated than that.

You're against the sky picture is a gem.
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Post  rdw777 Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:32 am

Hi Bob and thank you, Yes Sir, They are made from balsa and plywood…. Tissue caps for color….O - ring tires…

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Luan is a good material to have around the shop in general… Lately the pieces from the hardware store have a super thin outer veneer….. Old house doors can have the thicker “good stuff”…. I’ve used all mine up and watching for another door….
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Post  rsv1cox Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:41 pm

Good one Robert, sparks "Why didn't I think of that."

I have thought about using O rings as tires, I have assortments in both SAE and metric. But my idea was to spin luan and groove it with a gouge.  Not really practical. A three piece wheel as you describe is a much better idea.  Sandwich balsa between two pieces of ply and glue.  As the British would say.....Brilliant.  Smile

My next wheel set.........Imitation is the sincerest............

Bob
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Post  rdw777 Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:08 am

Well, It flies but as it is now is a squirrelly little thing…. Spiral stability needs some help so will raise the dihedral a little on it…. I hate to cut into the wing but that’s what it needs…..

Really happy with the engine though…. With the homemade throttle, cutting a chunk of brass off the needle, and losing the starter spring saved about six grams which let me take three more out of the tail…. Fairly significant for something that weighs a little over 100….

Will try and get some video when it’s behavin’ better

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Post  balogh Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:21 am

Way to go Robert, congratulations to your maiden flight! We are looking forward to seeing a video too!
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Post  getback Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:31 am

It Fly's , Cool hope you can get it to calm down that thing its very small to bee squirreling around in the sky . Would you not cut into the fuse wing saddle to change the dihedral ?? Old Bugger
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Post  rsv1cox Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:29 am

Nice Robert.........into the wild blue yonder!
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Post  MauricioB Fri Feb 24, 2023 10:13 am

rdw777 wrote:Well, It flies but as it is now is a squirrelly little thing…. Spiral stability needs some help so will raise the dihedral a little on it…. I hate to cut into the wing but that’s what it needs…..

I'm so glad it's on the air! Congratulations dear friend!!!
Please, if you read this message, before cutting the wing, please tell me what dihedral you have and what propeller you are using in your engine?!, thanks!
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Post  GallopingGhostler Fri Feb 24, 2023 10:54 am

Robert, back in the olden days of rudder only, I'd simply shim the wing with various slivers of balsa, 1/32nd, 1/16th, 1/8th, etc. It was a normal thing to do, to trim for wind. If you don't want to cut into the wing saddle right away to trim, that could be an option.

Decreasing the decalage of the wing by shimming the trailing edge of a high winger or increasing decalage of the elevator would lower the ability to climb into the wind, would have a faster steeper glide, but at least with R/O, one was still flying when windier.
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Post  rdw777 Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:38 am

Hola and thank you Gentlemen!!!

The plane was initially designed for rudder only and since I added an elevator I thought I could get away with a little less dihedral, The “V” in the wing looking at from the front or back…. I reduced it 25%…. My mistake, I should have left it as Mr. Willard designed….I compared it to my Ace LS which was initially a RO design that I added elevator and it agrees with PB’s original design …. It’s close to Schoolboy’s design too….Dihedral and fin/rudder area have a close relationship so have to be careful here of getting outside the box….Decalage is OK, Pitch is stable

The way it wants to fly now is begin a turn, tries to spin, rescue with elevator, repeat…. Just will not lock into a turn like I know it should

Mauricio, friend, I’m already doing surgery on the wing…. I’ll feel better when it is put back to spec…. This kind of construction is easy to repair and modify if needed….I thought about trying a smaller prop but I don’t think there are any torque problems until a little further testing…. The prop I used was Cox 4.5 X 2…

Thanks everyone for your support

Robert
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Post  GallopingGhostler Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:55 am

rdw777 wrote:Hola and thank you Gentlemen!!!The plane was initially designed for rudder only and since I added an elevator I thought I could get away with a little less dihedral
I guess you found out the hard way, Robert, but better the hard way than no way. In the old free flight designs, some have way too much dihedral for R/C rudder, reducing dihedral to about half helps to prevent tendency to rock side to side and is still effective for rudder control.

If you were to add ailerons to the wing, then yes, your dihedral reduction would be good, make the ailerons more effective. If you haven't started cutting, then adding strip ailerons to the wing could be a viable option.

Then you you have a first, an aileron controlled Pageboy.
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Post  MauricioB Fri Feb 24, 2023 12:36 pm

rdw777 wrote:

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That's the photo for the engine of the month contest.
Mine is a sung vote, but all the work there, added to his own hand, is "the photo" Beer Cheers
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Post  rsv1cox Fri Feb 24, 2023 12:47 pm

"Mauricio, friend, I’m already doing surgery on the wing…"

Man after my own heart Robert. I have lived by "Do it now" my whole life. Sometimes it has caused me trouble, but most of the time it does me well.....
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