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Post  rsv1cox Sun Dec 24, 2023 3:44 pm

Nuavo lorado or something.........I forget.

Just won this on ebay. A little different with the adjustable thrust angle that has been discussed here before.

Another Mexican Cox? Bigin_10
Another Mexican Cox? Ebay_b19

If I can't clean up the blue, I going to paint it black, build a wing and make a clone of this plane. Levent's decals always impressive. Early Cox Babe Bee looks to be in great condition.

Another Mexican Cox? P1016886

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Post  GallopingGhostler Sun Dec 24, 2023 8:53 pm

Bob, instead, could that be what remains of a Jim Walker RTF? They were used in US. I remembered those kits in I think the A&P grocery store among their toy rack in Biloxi Mississippi back in the mid 1960's.

Then it was Cox Mexico later on, that I guess they had rights to Jim Walker RTF parts, may have been involved with marketing in Mexico. Then came up with the Viuda Negra as a Cox product to help the people there to have an affordable one?
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Post  batjac Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:03 pm

That, my friend, is what's left of a Cox TD-4.

The Ancient Mark
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Post  Yabby Mon Dec 25, 2023 1:25 am

great looking plane Thumbs Up
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Post  balogh Mon Dec 25, 2023 1:33 am

GallopingGhostler wrote:Bob, instead, could that be what remains of a Jim Walker RTF? They were used in US. I remembered those kits in I think the A&P grocery store among their toy rack in Biloxi Mississippi back in the mid 1960's.

Then it was Cox Mexico later on, that I guess they had rights to Jim Walker RTF parts, may have been involved with marketing in Mexico. Then came up with the Viuda Negra as a Cox product to help the people there to have an affordable one?

Oh my  goodness gracious I wish our grocery shops had sold such toys back in the 60-s!

Did that tilting engine mount had any rod interconnection with the bellcrank, or with the elevator base setting in any way, or, the pilot had to correct the elevator setting by constantly adding "up"command with his hand in e.g. the beginner's position?

That BB indeed looks to have low milage on its clock, no toolmarks anywhere, the thin wall cylinder with taper bore must be producing as-new compression..
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Dec 25, 2023 4:57 am

batjac wrote:That, my friend, is what's left of a Cox TD-4.
Mark's on to something, that explains it. Rudolph Santa

balogh wrote:
GallopingGhostler wrote:Bob, instead, could that be what remains of a Jim Walker RTF? They were used in US. I remembered those kits in I think the A&P grocery store among their toy rack in Biloxi Mississippi back in the mid 1960's.
Oh my  goodness gracious I wish our grocery shops had sold such toys back in the 60-s!
András, to top that off, across the street from the first house my parents rented (a year later we moved a a block away) was a Cornet department store. It had several shelves of all the Comet rubber powered aiplane kits.

balogh wrote: BB indeed looks to have low milage on its clock, no toolmarks anywhere, the thin wall cylinder with taper bore must be producing as-new compression..
Then Bob's got a prize engine, being a TD-4 fuselage would place the engine I imagine in the late 1950's, early 1960's.
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Dec 25, 2023 7:48 am

Thanks George for straightening me out on my Spanish, and Mark for ID the left-over carcus.  If I ever heard anything about the TD-4 it didn't stick.  

Went looking around.

Another Mexican Cox? Cox_td15
Another Mexican Cox? C0x_td10
Another Mexican Cox? Cox_td14

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-thimble-drome-m-cox-td-flight-85244071

Another Mexican Cox? Td-4_e10

But, That C/L handle with the blue line..........Doesn't look Cox!
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Dec 25, 2023 11:30 am

Bob, you're welcome, BTW, that handle looks more like a handle for flying a kite and winder for its string, no? Bad Xmas Gift
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Dec 25, 2023 11:34 am

GallopingGhostler wrote:Bob, you're welcome, BTW, that handle looks more like a winder for a kite, no? Bad Xmas Gift

Doesn't it, and only one line too.

That wing looks alot like the Baby Ringmasters wing, it will help me to duplicate.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Dec 25, 2023 5:18 pm

Ringmaster wing shape is fairly universal. Short of having access to say, a TD4 designed wing, I can't see why it wouldn't do.
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Dec 25, 2023 5:42 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:Ringmaster wing shape is fairly universal. Short of having access to say, a TD4 designed wing, I can't see why it wouldn't do.

Hmm, I thought it was a balsa wing but looking closer, it's plastic. Leadout guides, edge reinforcements. Still, I have to make one out of balsa. If I can't clean up the blue I will have to paint it. Blue/yellow always popular sounds good.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Dec 25, 2023 5:55 pm

Appears that Cox simplified the wing, done away with the thin sheet plastic halves that were vacuum formed, then welded together at the seams.

The undercambered wing would have lots of lift coupled with drag. A symmetrical wing would be a better stunter and wind handler.

If I had that fuselage, for quick building, might consider a symmetrical K-Flex wing of 3/16-in. foamboard layers with a center rib section to match fuselage saddle contour.

More than 1 way to do. Best way is the one that gets done to satisfactory completion.

You've got a rare but historic fuselage, Bob, but that early Babe Bee is a nice rare bonus prize.
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Dec 25, 2023 6:40 pm

If I had that fuselage, for quick building, might consider a symmetrical K-Flex wing of 3/16-in. foamboard layers with a center rib section to match fuselage saddle contour.

That crossed my mind George, perhaps two wings, one simple balsa, the other as you describe.  Rubber band attachment makes it simple.  I doubt if I will be able to clean up that fuel damaged nose requiring paint.  I have that matte blue that I am so fond of.  Takes to plastic very well.  The nose adjustment comes off easy with a single screw.  The rest rubber bands but there may be a broken piece in the control rod structure.  

I'm pumped.  I thought I had every Cox model covered at least in print if not actually.  TD-4 hiding in plain sight, with a nod to batjac Mark.
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Post  batjac Mon Dec 25, 2023 8:40 pm

rsv1cox wrote:
Short of having access to say, a TD4 designed wing, I can't see why it wouldn't do.

Ask and Ye Shall Receive!


https://www.coxengineforum.com/t6595-giving-new-life-to-a-classic



The Been There, Done That Mark
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Post  rsv1cox Tue Dec 26, 2023 6:34 am

batjac wrote:
rsv1cox wrote:
Short of having access to say, a TD4 designed wing, I can't see why it wouldn't do.

Ask and Ye Shall Receive!


https://www.coxengineforum.com/t6595-giving-new-life-to-a-classic



The Been There, Done That Mark

Wow, Thanks Mark. 2014 and i forgot all about it and i even participated. Looks like I'm missing a major piece but thanks to your drawings I should be able to reproduce it.

Another Mexican Cox? Td-4_p10
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Post  GallopingGhostler Tue Dec 26, 2023 9:32 am

I thought it interesting that Cox would include a girl pilot. I guess that Cox was experimenting to see what would attractt sales.

These TD's faded away I guess because they may have been too simplisitic for sales. The scale jobs seemed to be better sellers.

In Mexico where wages were lower, the simpler and cheaper to manufacture fuselages (or perhaps unsold fuselage stock from Jim Walker RTF's made the Viuda Negra (Black Widow) along with sheet balsa wing made the RTF more affordable. Plus, after its destruction they had an engine to use in a kit.

Bob, it looks like now you have the makings for you next project. Very Happy
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Post  batjac Tue Dec 26, 2023 1:59 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:I thought it interesting that Cox would include a girl pilot. I guess that Cox was experimenting to see what would attractt sales.

Actually, Cox was very open minded about all kids participating.  The sticker on the left was a girl pilot, the sticker on the right was a boy pilot.

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Post  aeronaut999 Thu Mar 07, 2024 1:53 pm

rsv1cox wrote:Nuavo lorado or something.........I forget.

Just won this on ebay.  A little different with the adjustable thrust angle that has been discussed here before.

Another Mexican Cox? Bigin_10


I recently took my first dual flight in a real plane and was asking my instructor where the beginner / sport/ stunt control was but he kept looking at me funny.  Then he said he didn't want to fly with me any more. Did I do something wrong?  Wink
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Post  GallopingGhostler Thu Mar 07, 2024 2:05 pm

aeronaut999 wrote:I recently took my first dual flight in a real plane and was asking my instructor where the beginner / sport/ stunt control was but he kept looking at me funny.  Then he said he didn't want to fly with me any more.  What did I do wrong?  Wink

Experience is a hard master. Huh...

You just had an introduction to various personalities in life. He may have thought you were not serious and probably didn't know where you were coming from. Problem these days is that the aviation industry is under attack and there has been much fear mongering with the unfortunately oligarch owned mainstream news media (radio, TV, printed media, etc., plus the FAA can have a heavy hand on them affecting business. This is another topic best for the CEF Red Neck Zone.)

I'd give it a few days, then call him up or visit him, apologize and tell him where this thought came from, a hobby interest, but you intend to be a serious learner. This particular guy is a serious type and it will take a while until he really gets to know you. Then you can kid with him.

If you get nowhere there, then I would contact his supervisor (provided he isn't a supervisor) and explain to him, let him talk with the instructor or assign you another.

I know, because I've been there done that. Doh! lol!
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Post  rsv1cox Thu Mar 07, 2024 2:23 pm

You did nothing wrong. Your instructor obviously has no sense of humor. And...........and had never flown a Cox TD-4. Smile
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Post  aeronaut999 Thu Mar 07, 2024 2:42 pm

I'm kidding guys.

Nice to find the Cox forum and get some replies re my question about my first-ever flying model that blue Cox P-39 --
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Post  rsv1cox Thu Mar 07, 2024 3:40 pm

aeronaut999 wrote:I'm kidding guys.

Nice to find the Cox forum and get some replies re my question about my first-ever flying model that blue Cox P-39 --

Getting to know you aeronaut..............Good to see that you have a sense of humor. Smile

Bob
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Post  GallopingGhostler Thu Mar 07, 2024 5:02 pm

aeronaut999 wrote:I'm kidding guys. Nice to find the Cox forum and get some replies re my question about my first-ever flying model that blue Cox P-39 --
No problem. Wink

Got my share of "donor engines" from those who had those one-shot flights as a kid, including my one-shots flights. Sad Laughing

Neat to see some of these old birds successfully fly. Before my time old enough to fly these, Cox had caged circles at Disneyland in the early 1960's, would put on demo flights for the crowds to watch. That was when old Walt was still alive, the master of good wholesome imagination.

For me, that was before the Toys-R-Us kids. lol!
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