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Post  Ivanhoe on Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:41 am

Well, here's my new project, I must be mad!

Ohlsson & Rice Restoration Kgrhqf10

Ohlsson & Rice 23, Spark Ignition, circa 1947

I have always wanted an old spark ignition engine, and when this one came up for $10.00 on EBay I couldn't resist it!
As you will see from the photo, there is a lot missing! Including the whole circuit-breaker assembly, whether I ever manage to find the parts (at least at sensible prices!) remains to be seen!
It would appear that the front induction was an after-market add-on, which could be bought to convert the engine from it's original rear side-port induction, the rear intake was plugged with a cork when it was used!
Until the engine arrives I don't know how this worked, but it will be interesting to find out!
If anyone knows anything about these engines (Sparkers) I'd be grateful for information,
and pointers to useful websites would also be appreciated.
This engine is from before even MY time, and I know very little about them, like I say, I must be mad!

Wilf
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Post  Kim on Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:23 am

Don't know if it's "Madness" or "Passion"...or if it matters...but it sure is fun !
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Post  Cribbs74 on Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:16 am

Nice Find Wilf,

Hope you get it up and running. I passed on an old K&B this week for $15. I was thinking of buying it and selling for Cox stuff. Box, papers,decals. There are still good deals out there as you've found.
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Post  Admin on Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:04 am

I have a complete O&R .23 if you want pictures and details.

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Post  Ivanhoe on Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:13 am

Admin wrote:I have a complete O&R .23 if you want pictures and details.

If yours has the front rotary induction as well I'd be interested in any photos, especially how the circuit breaker assembly fits on the front.
I have a list of O&R serial numbers which gives the date of manufacture, if you don't know it already that is!

thanks

Wilf
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Post  proctor on Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:56 am

Mine is serial no 405575 would be nice to know year. Mine has been
converted to glow by simply putting pressed tin cover over timing cam,
as many of the old sparkies were. Mine has an insert in intake throat
held in by the needle valve assembly, presumably to reduce power for
free flight and easily removed for CL

https://i.servimg.com/u/f46/17/26/04/06/twin_l14.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f46/17/26/04/06/twin_l15.jpg

You can just see residue of red paint on head.
Mine is probably O&R 19 rather than a 23
John
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Post  Ivanhoe on Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:57 pm

proctor wrote:Mine is serial no 405575 would be nice to know year. Mine has been
converted to glow by simply putting pressed tin cover over timing cam,
as many of the old sparkies were. Mine has an insert in intake throat
held in by the needle valve assembly, presumably to reduce power for
free flight and easily removed for CL

https://i.servimg.com/u/f46/17/26/04/06/twin_l14.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f46/17/26/04/06/twin_l15.jpg

You can just see residue of red paint on head.
Mine is probably O&R 19 rather than a 23
John

Yes, it's a .19, front rotary valve 19's from 1948 until production ended in early 1953 had serials from 406849 to 433682, so your's is somewhere towards the middle of that period, around say, 1950. The research done so far hasn't narrowed it down any closer, but the list is due for an update anytime now, so we may get it closer.
I read that Ohlsson left the company in 1949 and records weren't kept very well after that.
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Post  Ivanhoe on Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:42 pm

Here you go, Proctor, in case you ever decide to put your O&R in a model!

Ohlsson & Rice Restoration O_and_10
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Post  Puffie40 on Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:14 pm

I can give you a little bit of advice, as I have dismantled our O&R 29 a couple of times:

- the Cyilinder and head are one piece. they were spot welded together during manufacture so they cannot be taken apart. to remove the piston, twist the piston 90 degrees and pull it out from the bottom.

- the piston has a deflector bar on it, and the narrow end need to point towards the intake, or AWAY from the exhaust.

- The only difference I can see between the O&R spark and glow models is a plastic spacer where the points went and a glowplug on top. might be a way to try it out while you are looking for ignition parts.

- Spark coils are all the same, but if you want to throw this on a plane, you could look at spark coils for chainsaws, as they are pretty compact.
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Post  proctor on Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:52 pm

Thanks Ivanhoe, awesome decals! have not run my O&R yet but it's got
a lovely plop to it so will get it on the bench tomorrow.
John
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Post  Admin on Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:30 pm

Ivanhoe wrote:
Admin wrote:I have a complete O&R .23 if you want pictures and details.

If yours has the front rotary induction as well I'd be interested in any photos, especially how the circuit breaker assembly fits on the front.
I have a list of O&R serial numbers which gives the date of manufacture, if you don't know it already that is!

thanks

Wilf

LOL, I have the rear induction with the little plastic "thimble" tank on the back. I knew something looked a little off!
lol!

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Post  Ivanhoe on Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:36 pm

Puffie40 wrote:I can give you a little bit of advice, as I have dismantled our O&R 29 a couple of times:

- the Cyilinder and head are one piece. they were spot welded together during manufacture so they cannot be taken apart. to remove the piston, twist the piston 90 degrees and pull it out from the bottom.

- the piston has a deflector bar on it, and the narrow end need to point towards the intake, or AWAY from the exhaust.

- The only difference I can see between the O&R spark and glow models is a plastic spacer where the points went and a glowplug on top. might be a way to try it out while you are looking for ignition parts.
- Spark coils are all the same, but if you want to throw this on a plane, you could look at spark coils for chainsaws, as they are pretty compact.

Yes, thanks Puffie, that's a good idea about trying it out as a glow, one thing that is worrying is whether it has the early rubber seal between the head and the cylinder, I read that they are prone to leaks, and are nearly impossible to repair because of the "staked" head/cylinder, I just hope it's the later alloy one on this, just have to wait and see! Good tip about removing the piston, and thanks for the detail about the piston baffle position, I'd have been sure to put it back the wrong way round!

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Post  SuperDave on Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:42 pm

Wilf:

My first model aircraft engine was a new circa 1952 O&R .23 front rotary which was a new concept for the time replacing the rear intake used previously.

It appears the the engine shown has had front rotary attached and is therefore incorrect for a "sparker". If you intend to convert it back to spark you'll need to ditch the front rotary and go back to the rear intake system. You'll also need a "sparker" crankshaft as a front rotary uses a different crank. Wheter the internal porting would match, I haven't a clue.

Don't let me disparage your quest for the correct parts. Just know that they exist. Enjoy the hunt.
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Post  Ivanhoe on Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:16 pm

SuperDave wrote:Wilf:

My first model aircraft engine was a new circa 1952 O&R .23 front rotary which was a new concept for the time replacing the rear intake used previously.

It appears the the engine shown has had front rotary attached and is therefore incorrect for a "sparker". If you intend to convert it back to spark you'll need to ditch the front rotary and go back to the rear intake system. You'll also need a "sparker" crankshaft as a front rotary uses a different crank. Wheter the internal porting would match, I haven't a clue.

Don't let me disparage your quest for the correct parts. Just know that they exist. Enjoy the hunt.

As far as my reading so far goes, the front rotary setup was at first a factory "aftermarket accessory" in that you bought a kit of the altered crankshaft and the front section of the crankcase, plugged the rear inlet and replaced the contact breaker assembly on the new front end (see photo)

Ohlsson & Rice Restoration Or_fr10

There is certainly no need to go back to the rear inlet setup to run it as a spark ignition.
I can get a new contact breaker assembly for about 5 times what I paid for the engine, but at least they ARE available!
My biggest problems will be getting replacements for the prop driver and washer, parts like that just don't seem to be being reproduced yet, and also, if it is the early version with a rubber gasket between head and cylinder, and it's leaking, it's virtually impossible to replace due to the staked together head and cylinder.
Oh well, just makes it more interesting!
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Post  SuperDave on Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:24 pm

I was not aware of an O&R factory coversion kit from spark to rotary.

I wrote only from memories some sixty some years past.

"Given enough time and $$$$$, anything is possible." Very Happy
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Post  Ivanhoe on Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:34 pm

SuperDave wrote:I was not aware of an O&R factory coversion kit from spark to rotary.

I wrote only from memories some sixty some years past.

"Given enough time and $$$$$, anything is possible." Very Happy

It's the $$$$$$$ that's bothering me! Very Happy
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Post  SuperDave on Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:41 pm

In the end will the finished product justify the the expenditure of the $$$$$$$$$$$$?

Only you can answer that, my friend.

A $10 engine could cost a hundred when "restored".. Sad
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Post  Ivanhoe on Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:51 pm

SuperDave wrote:In the end will the finished product justify the the expenditure of the $$$$$$$$$$$$?

Only you can answer that, my friend.

A $10 engine could cost a hundred when "restored".. Sad

Good O&R 23s sell for between $150 & $220 (the last price was a NIB example) WAY out of my league, but a little here and a little there, and the enjoyment of putting a scrapper back in service, and ending up (Hopefully) with a usable spark engine is what I'm aiming for, after all any hobby is going to cost you money!
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Post  Ivanhoe on Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:39 am

Well, the O&R arrived today, it's in much better condition than it looked in the photo, internals are very clean (I understand that sparkies don't gum up like glows) although the piston crown is well carboned so it's seen a fair amount of use, according to the serial number it was made in 1947, so it's nearly as old as I am, but I think it's worn rather better!
I need to find a replacement prop driver as a first priority so that I can see if it will run as a glow before I lay out big bucks on a replacement contact breaker assembly.
If anyone knows anyone, private or commercial, who might have any O&R spares I'd appreciate a contact.

I'll post progress pictures as I get them.
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Post  Ivanhoe on Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:39 pm

A couple of photos of the engine as I got it, I screwed the glowplug in to try the compression, but I hope to run it as a glow first to see if it actually DOES run!
Unfortunately somebody in the past has cut the beam mounting lugs off, which means it's radial mount only

Ohlsson & Rice Restoration My_eng10
Ohlsson & Rice Restoration My_eng11
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Post  mitchg95 on Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:40 pm

looks awesome, cant wait for more updates
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Post  Ivanhoe on Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:49 am

I finally got an exact date on this engine, thanks to the helpful folks on the "Ignition Treasures" thread on RC Groups. It's actually 1948 manufacture, later modified to front rotary induction.
Nice to know just how old it is!
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Post  SuperDave on Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:37 am

Wilf:

I believe that I mentioned the possibility of the modfication when you first posted about the O&R but now you have it from an authoratative source as well as an acturate date of manufacture.

Nice detective work, Inspector!
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Post  Ivanhoe on Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:42 am

SuperDave wrote:Wilf:

I believe that I mentioned the possibility of the modfication when you first posted about the O&R but now you have it from an authoratative source as well as an acturate date of manufacture.

Nice detective work, Inspector!

Thanks, I got a copy of the original instruction leaflet, and the conversion kits are listed on it, $5.00 for the front case and a replacement crankshaft!

Ohlsson & Rice Restoration Or_ins10
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Post  Ivanhoe on Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:46 am

proctor wrote:Mine is serial no 405575 would be nice to know year. Mine has been
converted to glow by simply putting pressed tin cover over timing cam,
as many of the old sparkies were. Mine has an insert in intake throat
held in by the needle valve assembly, presumably to reduce power for
free flight and easily removed for CL

https://i.servimg.com/u/f46/17/26/04/06/twin_l14.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f46/17/26/04/06/twin_l15.jpg

You can just see residue of red paint on head.
Mine is probably O&R 19 rather than a 23
John

I've just discovered that the intake insert was standard on these engines John, but is obviously missing from mine, any chance that you could take a picture down the intake so that I'd have some idea what to look out for?

thanks

Wilf
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