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Post  GallopingGhostler on Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:25 am

Rod, yes, those fires even though they inflame our already opinionated press were as you say not only tragically deadly to those who lost their lives and those who lost their health not to mention also livelihood and habitation, but destroyed the lives of the animals they claimed to have conserved through their extreme conservation methods.

For many years, the environmentalists within our US and state governments opposed controlled burns and thinning of forests by logging companies. I was amazed to hear from one of the conservative news sites (the ones you don't hear of much because there is a campaign afoot to suppress these), that the owners and those who used these lands were not allowed to remove the underbrush and accumulated dead leaves, etc. Australia is similar to our US Southwest with limited rainfall in parts. The dead branches and leaves do not have a mechanism to compost.

Nature had a way of taking care of this underbrush and dead leaves by lightning strikes burning away the vegetation. Trees could survive that if the accumulation wasn't deep. Instead, the huge bonfires took down those trees as well.

It is interesting how man's failures through of all things, the wrong people in government and education created further problems instead of solving them. The very animals and vegetation they were purported to have spared are the very ones that were destroyed as a result. Just like here in New Mexico, it will take hundreds of years for the forests to return.
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Post  rsv1cox on Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:41 am

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Post  rsv1cox on Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:53 am

Oldenginerod wrote:Our U.S. friends have been very supportive and generous to we Aussies in the wake of our disasterous bushfires.  That's fantastic, but be careful what you believe.  It sounds like the media over there has got hold of the stories and then exaggerated them by 400%.  Celebrities were Tweeting "photos taken from space" which showed the majority of Australian landmass in flames.  The originator of the picture had to step in and announce that it wasn't a photo after all, but an artist's impression based on several overlayed photos of many weeks of fire (and high temperature) activity.  What appeared as a fire could have been in fact an iron roof reflecting the sun, or a hot rock in the desert.
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.  Many are using the misinformation to fuel their protests about climate change and against our current conservative government.  Cold comfort for the hundreds of folk who've lost all their worldly possessions, or particularly those who've lost loved ones.

Having said that, the sad reality is that millions of critters have been lost, not the least our Koala population which, if they survived the fires (and many thousands didn't) they now have very limited habitat to return to.  If you want to help, find a good Koala conservation charity and give them a hand.

Today we are all Australians Rod.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v22SPtCFck8
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Post  fredvon4 on Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:06 am

you tube always offers up something...for some reason Bob's link gave me this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RST-R5A1jZ4


a good hour of fun.....trust me
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Post  Oldenginerod on Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:00 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:Rod, yes, those fires even though they inflame our already opinionated press were as you say not only tragically deadly to those who lost their lives and those who lost their health not to mention also livelihood and habitation, but destroyed the lives of the animals they claimed to have conserved through their extreme conservation methods.

For many years, the environmentalists within our US and state governments opposed controlled burns and thinning of forests by logging companies. I was amazed to hear from one of the conservative news sites (the ones you don't hear of much because there is a campaign afoot to suppress these), that the owners and those who used these lands were not allowed to remove the underbrush and accumulated dead leaves, etc. Australia is similar to our US Southwest with limited rainfall in parts. The dead branches and leaves do not have a mechanism to compost.

Nature had a way of taking care of this underbrush and dead leaves by lightning strikes burning away the vegetation. Trees could survive that if the accumulation wasn't deep. Instead, the huge bonfires took down those trees as well.

It is interesting how man's failures through of all things, the wrong people in government and education created further problems instead of solving them. The very animals and vegetation they were purported to have spared are the very ones that were destroyed as a result. Just like here in New Mexico, it will take hundreds of years for the forests to return.
You hit the nail on the head George.  For tens of thousands of years the Aborigines used fire to care for the land.  Nature (through lightning) used fire to care for the land.  Now, we who supposedly know better want to live in the bush to satisfy our "lifestyle" dreams.  In the past, the bush burned and we stood and watched from a distance.  Now we need to try to stop it burning because we're in the way.
I am amused by the current news reports about the smoke.  We're currently in very calm weather so the smoke is lingering.  It's bad enough that it's stopped my wife cycling and exercising outdoors, so it must be bad.  Laughing
All these so-called experts are now saying we need to do a study on the health effects of "bushfire smoke".  As far as I know, for millennia every culture in the world have beed burning wood gathered from the bush to keep them warm and cook their food etc.  What's different about this smoke?  Why suddenly is "bushfire smoke" any different to the smoke that campfires and log fires have been making for ever??  Get over it people!  We're mortal.  Somethin's gonna get us.  Life causes death.  The consequences are well documented in a certain ancient book Pray
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Post  Oldenginerod on Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:01 pm

Goodness! Am I starting to get controvercial? Shocked
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Post  rsv1cox on Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:35 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:Goodness! Am I starting to get controvercial? Shocked

Starting??????????  Smile

Humans be darned! My concern is for the wildlife, they have nowhere to run.
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Post  ticomareado on Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:56 pm

"For tens of thousands of years the Aborigines used fire to care for the land. "-- Imagine that; a population with an average IQ of 62 kept things in order.
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:41 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:We're currently in very calm weather so the smoke is lingering. It's bad enough that it's stopped my wife cycling and exercising outdoors, so it must be bad. Laughing
I don't know what's worse. When we lived in Long Beach, California (Los Angeles area), we'd wake up in the morning listening to the birds coughing. lol!

Yup, I know what you mean, Rod. I Agree With Above
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Post  KariFS on Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:42 pm

ticomareado wrote:"For tens of thousands of years the Aborigines used fire to care for the land. "--   Imagine that; a population with an average IQ of 62 kept things in order.

If that is a ”real” number (which I doubt), it sort of makes me wonder about the accuracy and criteria of the IQ measuring process. Put any of us flabby white boys with IQ from 95 to 150+ out there in the Outback shirtless, without shoes, armed only with our superior intelligence and a 6ft wooden stick Shocked I’d give us 48 hours, tops Sad Goodbye


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Post  balogh on Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:50 pm

Could not agree more with your response Kari..
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Post  ticomareado on Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:38 pm

Minimal survival adaption over an extended evolutionary period of time to an environment (no matter how hostile) does not equate to IQ per se. Lizards survive in the Australian outback, but a dolphin would never make it there either. I don't think anyone is prepared to say a lizard is smarter than a dolphin though.
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Post  rsv1cox on Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:01 pm

ticomareado wrote:Minimal survival adaption over an extended evolutionary period of time to an environment (no matter how hostile) does not equate to IQ per se. Lizards survive in the Australian outback, but a dolphin would never make it there either. I don't think anyone is prepared to say a lizard is smarter than a dolphin though.

Victor, I think you must write for Krista Tippett. Just leave off the word "though."
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Post  ticomareado on Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:28 pm

I rather doubt that Krista Tippett would tolerate my company, but I'll take my compliments where I can get them. And since we're doing the grammar po po thing, I'll do a little self correction: "Minimal survival adaption" s/b "Minimal survival adaptation".


biology

a change or the process of change by which an organism or species becomes better suited to its environment.

"living in groups is an adaptation that increases the efficiency of hunting" ·
[more]
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Post  rsv1cox on Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:48 pm

ticomareado wrote:I rather doubt that Krista Tippett would tolerate my company, but I'll take my compliments where I can get them. And since we're doing the grammar po po thing, I'll do a little self correction: "Minimal survival adaption" s/b "Minimal survival adaptation".


biology

a change or the process of change by which an organism or species becomes better suited to its environment.

"living in groups is an adaptation that increases the efficiency of hunting" ·
[more]

It was meant as a compliment Victor. Krista can string words together like no one I know.

Bob

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Post  ticomareado on Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:26 pm

I know and it's appreciated.
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Post  KariFS on Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:04 pm

Well, silverfish seem to do just fine under floor moldings of an old house, eating dust. A cricket would die there. So would I. I know it was a different world not long ago, but nowadays Aborigines are rightfully considered same species as Caucasians.

Different culture, different ”smart”.





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Post  ticomareado on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:45 am

Brits (criminals, ne'er do wells, irritants to the Crown, etc.) settled Australia after forcible expulsion from England and created an advanced (not perfect by any means) civilization. Vice-versa with boatloads of Aborigines to Europe couldn't have (and still can't to this day) produced any type of analogous results no matter how you slice the Kermakakku.
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:53 am

ticomareado wrote:I don't think anyone is prepared to say a lizard is smarter than a dolphin though.
How's the weather? - Page 19 Geico_10

KariFS wrote:I know it was a different world not long ago, but nowadays Aborigines are rightfully considered same species as Caucasians.
There is only one race, human. Tired w/ Coffee Read Popcorn
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Post  balogh on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:58 am

ticomareado wrote:Brits (criminals, ne'er do wells, irritants to the Crown, etc.) settled Australia after forcible expulsion from England and created an advanced (not perfect by any means) civilization. Vice-versa with boatloads of Aborigines to Europe couldn't have  (and still can't to this day) produced any type of analogous results no matter how you slice the Kermakakku.

Blame it to my rather limited English command but what I begin to read among the lines is a mild racism, or white supremacy....where is the political correctness? Or I have lost my sense of humor?
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Post  ticomareado on Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:08 am

I'm not sure you ever had a sense of humor to start with and your ad hominem suggests an inability to refute reality.
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Post  balogh on Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:13 am

Your assumption on whether I have ever had sense of humor is at least as well founded and fact-based as your stipulations about the IQ of Aborogines. But let me tell you, for the sake of peace here, you and I do not have to communicate with each other..at least from now on I do not want to. Bye.
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Post  KariFS on Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:01 am

GallopingGhostler wrote:
KariFS wrote:I know it was a different world not long ago, but nowadays Aborigines are rightfully considered same species as Caucasians.
There is only one race, human. Tired w/ Coffee Read Popcorn

That is exactly what I meant. Sorry if my attempt at sarcasm on the serious matter caused any doubt about it.

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Post  ticomareado on Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:09 am

Well then let Garth Brooks invite all the Aborigines over to his mansion.
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Post  Oldenginerod on Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:14 pm

What just happened here? Huh...

Part of the reason that I had difficulty fitting in over on Stunthangar when I joined recently is because of the bickering and disrespectful slanging that often goes on. I didn't think I'd see it here. I guess I had something to do with it, after commenting on the fires, by introducing the notion that Australian indigenous folk actually know somethoing about caring from the earth, which maybe we can learn from. Unfortunately comments don't always come across in writing like we intended. We also need to respect that some here don't have English as their first language.

Keep it nice please folks.
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