T-Bee-D1 (a Rod-de-sign)

roddie Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:44 pm

EDIT: Thread title changed on 11/3/2023

I'd been wanting to design yet another control-line sheet-wing/profile airplane for "Bee" (Cox .049 reed-valve) power. I started drawing some outlines on Saturday afternoon.. while my wife Lynne was preparing a crock-pot beef stew.. Smile

ah yes............ It was sOoOo good!

.......... Getting back to the drawing; the design is a fairly conventional monoplane which wouldn't be too difficult to build if someone else wanted to try to build it from my drawing.

The air-frame is "all-wood" construction; mainly of balsa. The wing and tail surfaces are of 1/8" (3mm) thickness balsa sheet, with the wing being made from multiple pieces; in an effort to prevent warping.. and also to utilize some wood that I had run through a "Time saver" (precision sanding machine) to thicknesses of 1/8" and 3/16". The "scrap" balsa that I acquired on a job years ago. The width of all that wood is 1.75" in lengths varying from 18-30 inches. The 1.75" width will play-into this design. You'll see..

The profile fuse is made from 3/16" (4.7mm) thickness balsa sheet with the addition of 1/64" (.4mm) thickness plywood "doublers" to extend rearward to 1/2 the wing-chord. I sourced a 12" X 24" sheet of this plywood as well as a same-size sheet of 1/32" (.8mm) from Sig Mfg. Co. In Montezuma IA some 30 years ago.. and still have a good amount of each remaining. The 1/64" wood is 3-ply.. and is sold as "wing-skin" material for foamies.. and cuts easily with good sharp scissors.

I've been using graph-paper for when I draw-out my designs. I only use paper having true 1/4" (.250") gradients. Taping 4 sheets together can make a 16.5"+ X 21.5"+ sheet which is generally large enough for the 1/2A class airplanes that I draw-out.

The image below is what I drew this past weekend.

You can see that I haven't decided on a fin/rudder-profile as of yet. I want a shape that compliments the tips of the wing and stab.

Notice also; the alternate tail-moment.. What?

... This is where I give myself options for getting the CG somewhat close.. without making major changes to the design.

I found an interesting use for empty potato-crisp canisters..

**944_Jim** Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:06 pm

Roddie,
I love those plans keepers. It bothers me to know how many of those cans my boys have gone through...and tossed! I'll slow those boys down and recover the next several. Thanks much for an obvious way to recycle them. I think a good name would be "Rollders," short for Roddie's ROLLed plans holDERS..

PS Dinner looks delicious!

NEW222 Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:02 pm

I also love those rolled plans holders, but unfortunately my waist does NOT agree........

roddie Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:29 pm

944_Jim wrote:Roddie,
I love those plans keepers. It bothers me to know how many of those cans my boys have gone through...and tossed! I'll slow those boys down and recover the next several. Thanks much for an obvious way to recycle them. I think a good name would be "Rollders," short for Roddie's ROLLed plans holDERS..

PS Dinner looks delicious!

Thanks Jim! Those three canisters contain the rolled-plans of the last three airplanes that I designed; the P38, the "Fulcrum Flyer"... and now the...................... wait for it....

roddie Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:36 pm

NEW222 wrote:I also love those rolled plans holders, but unfortunately my waist does NOT agree........

Chancey! Thanks for being here! You know.... you can also use empty toilet tissue/paper-towel tubes. You only need to roll your plan-paper(s) tighter. Rubber bands have much less of a life for the chore. Smile

roddie Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:42 pm

I enjoy drawing-out plans of things that I've made/designed. It's a little piece of "me" that might be around for a while.. after I'm gone. Surely you'd like to leave a remembrance of your time spent with this hobby.

rsv1cox Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:53 pm

So glad to see this. Happy that I re-lit your fire a few weeks ago.

roddies back after too long an absense.......... Smile

Chancey's too.

roddie Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:17 pm

rsv1cox wrote:So glad to see this. Happy that I re-lit your fire a few weeks ago.

roddies back after too long an absense..........

Chancey's too.

Robert! You are the supreme iron-man catalyst for many of us here!

roddie Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:46 pm

I have an incline take-off dolly design see here that got some attention last weekend too.

This latest airplane design had me thinking about alternate launch-methods. I haven't had the luxury of a pit-man/mechanic to assist with control-line launches. Maybe I can make this work?

A little 1/2A "Profile-style" fuse should fit within the rails of the launch dolly. Its belly "notched" to locate at multiple points.

The launch-rail has graduated "slots" to accommodate various launch-points for different models.

Yabby Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:24 pm

Goodaye Roddie, if the launcher doesn't work out for you, I use single drop off wheels on my planes. I have a very light fold-up card/picnic table with a lightweight stooge on the back. the drop of wheel fits into the plane body. as the plane flies off the table the wheel drops off. Works well for me as same problem of flying on my own. I tried launcher like yours but found I built it too heavy. Nice runway under it will make big difference though. I tried to make mine work on grass and not enough power in the 049 to move everything. The table, stooge and drop of wheel was best for me, though a launcher as is yours will be far easier to use if it has a nice runway. The launches from a short table on one drop off wheel can be exciting!

Yabby

HalfaDave Thu Jan 19, 2023 5:49 pm

Hi roddie,
It will fly.
Your launch dolly will be way smarter than most pit crews. Smile

Flat plate wings are hard.
Fun facts:
-WW1 planes had wires, to keep the wings from twisting/bending.
- the Wright Brothers had the first wind tunnel. Try experiments.
-more Cox engines have flown with balsa, than plastic, planes.
-if you can get a Swordsman18 inverted and back, it is luck !

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave

roddie Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:46 pm

HalfaDave wrote:Hi roddie,
It will fly.
Your launch dolly will be way smarter than most pit crews.
Flat plate wings are hard.
Fun facts:
-WW1 planes had wires, to keep the wings from twisting/bending.
- the Wright Brothers had the first wind tunnel. Try experiments.
-more Cox engines have flown with balsa, than plastic, planes.
-if you can get a Swordsman18 inverted and back, it is luck !

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave

I accept the challenge!

**944_Jim** Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:10 pm

So who's got the SkyRay with drop-offs?

I can see the table...I can see the wheels...I can remember what one of you guys mentioning what the wheels looked like.

Come on...admit it's yours and provide the link for Yabby.

roddie Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:17 pm

Not the subject answer... but...............................................................................

HalfaDave Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:42 pm

Hi roddie,
I'm in.
Are JATOs allowed? (got some Estese Ds left)
If I stay below 250grams,
I won't do hard time.
Flat plate wings are hard,
Cops all know me,
Dave

Yabby Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:06 am

944_Jim wrote:So who's got the SkyRay with drop-offs?

I can see the table...I can see the wheels...I can remember what one of you guys mentioning what the wheels looked like.

Come on...admit it's yours and provide the link for Yabby.

Plans below are for my current jigger I desiugned that I posted previously, drop off wheel and tubes it goes in up by the motor shown.

I have also previously posted the launch table with a very small homemade stooge at the back of it. works really well. The drop off wheels idea I saw posted by someone else previously who was using a launch table and linked a video is probably the one you are thinking of. The table I use is much smaller, but I use a TD 049 mostly and its airborne pretty much strait away. It certainly wasnt my idea. The design shown above works really well though from a small launch table. Just got to remember to pick up tghe wheel after lastr flight and not leave it behind. lol!

The picture below is a not great picture of the launch table. The stooge is now at the back of it. When I launch ther plane I balance the plane on its inside wingtip with my battery pack and it sits there running hard till I pull the pin, takes off in about 2ft and the wheel falls to the ground. All of my planes are done that way now. Also the rubber engine mount system in the plan is used on all of my planes. Another idea someone on the forum had posted before I did it. Smile

Yabby

HalfaDave Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:15 am

Hi Yabby,
Nice launch stooge. Very niceley done.
Mine was a coat hanger wire and kite string affair. With 3ft of carpet ahead of it. Worked good....
Until,
I got the needle set, ran out to the handle, snubbed the line with my foot, and it took off.
My hand was inches from grabbing the handle....
Well, my previous Free Flights were ~60seconds. This was a full BlackWidow tank, going up....
If there is a FF/CL contest, I would have won. (never able to try/ do again)
I could tell you the story. But, I cannot, because:
-10 kms (there was a slight breeze)
-High Tension wires.
-two days of big thunder storms, until it came down.
-my Maac#6437 was on it.
-I snagged two dozen delicious cobs of corn on the way out...
AND, I learned,
Be Careful, flying alone. ( and the slightest mistake)
Other than that...

Yabby, I have an OS.25/guts/spars/covering/etc. I like your SW design. Deserves an airfoil.
What will we call it?
12 hrs away,
Dave

P.S. Thick packing tape and balsa, is light and strong.

Yabby Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:14 pm

Goodaye Dave,

Thanks for the kind words about my design and stooge table! :-)
I love your life stories that just seem to reinforce the existance of the butterfly effect.
I called the Plane X1202, X for eXperimental and 1202 being one of the two alarm codes that threatened to prevent the apollo LEM powered decent moon landing
I have worked at this design for many iterations now, specifically for an 049 and wanting to fly 42/52 ft lines with good manauverability. Im fairly happy with it finally for an 049 and I can fly it on long lines with a good 049 TD and it looops, wingovers, Lazy 8s. I didnt use an aerofoyle as didnt want to bleed speed. Found the wing design brings the effective area back into the centre and had read that sweeping back the leading edge has a very similar effect to diehedral (that must ne spelt wrong for sure) on wings. Finally I have a SW that glides really well.

If you scale it up to take an OS .25 with an airfoil I reckon call it DNJ (Daves Next Jigger)

Laughed heaps about your stooge experience. Will have all of the knowing ones shaking their heads. HAhAHahHa, Evil stooge, bad stooge. lol!

Must say, I am a good old man, and I peg my control handle solidly to the ground for such event. But your experience seems much more exciting. Lol.

Yabby

roddie Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:57 pm

LoVe your "Lost in Space" robot avatar Yabby! Thumbs Up

One of my favorite shows as a kid!

roddie Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:49 pm

roddie wrote:
944_Jim wrote:Roddie,
I love those plans keepers. It bothers me to know how many of those cans my boys have gone through...and tossed! I'll slow those boys down and recover the next several. Thanks much for an obvious way to recycle them. I think a good name would be "Rollders," short for Roddie's ROLLed plans holDERS..

PS Dinner looks delicious!

Thanks Jim! Those three canisters contain the rolled-plans of the last three airplanes that I designed; the P38, the "Fulcrum Flyer"... and now the...................... wait for it....

Have you been waiting? Laughing

So................... I've been grappling with the name for this design, but now I'm sure that I like my decision. Looking back at my drawing, you'd see where the tail-moment is not "set in stone".. Huh...

and has two options for the overall length of the fuse...... with the notation; T.B.D. Shocked

So............. Since this design is expressly for Cox .049 Bee style engines, I'm naming it T-Bee-D1.

I have the wood on hand..

It's far from contest balsa... but I'm tired of contests.

rsv1cox Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:26 pm

T-Bee-D1

No better project for a cold Winters day/week in Rhode Island.

Looking forward to the roll-out.

roddie Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:33 pm

roddie wrote:

It's far from contest balsa... but I'm tired of contests.

Actually.. I love contests.. but I don't feel very competitive lately. This design/build will be me trying to design a model that is capable of some stunt maneuvers.... whilst using even a mediocre engine.. or one that would have to run on FAI (which used to mean zero nitro-methane..?) fuel.. and still be able to "bring it".

I never realized how short my lines were.. when I started flying C/L. I flew at home back then, in an area of my yard that had safe-clearance for about a 52' diameter circle. That's a 26' radius. My lines had to be shorter than that.. by at least 3 feet. I couldn't fly on 23' lines now. My last flight was on 35' lines that were the Dyneema-braided "Spider-Wire" brand 15lb. fishing line. It was a maiden-flight for the particular model.. so it's difficult to make an assessment of either.. because it was also my first time using a non-dacron line. It had also been a very long time since I had a handle in my hand.. I must "Do it Again" soon..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgYuLsudaJQ

roddie Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:52 pm

rsv1cox wrote:T-Bee-D1

No better project for a cold Winters day/week in Rhode Island.

Looking forward to the roll-out.

Hi Robert!!! Yes.. you're right about that! We got some snow today.. but it hasn't amounted to much. It's about 2-3" of wet snow and warmer temperatures are forecast ahead. It's been pretty much; a "snowless" season thus far my good friend. I am looking at retirement.. and have given my "two-week notice" at the Whitin mill (Google image link) in Whitinsville, (Northbridge) MA. My last day of work will be Feb 3rd. It would have been 5yrs. there.. this coming May.

It's becoming too much for me physically Robert. I don't know how you do what you do. You get "10's" across the board from me Mr. V.

HalfaDave Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:48 pm

Hi Yabby, roddie, All,

I have on reserve at the local library, One Giant Leap by Charles Fishman.
Looking fwd to it. As a kid, there was this old rowboat called Tranquility Base... (now I get it !)
How could big things be done in less than 10yrs ? With sliderules !

Not sure why I need plans. I am lucky to build within 10% anyways...
Centre of Gravity, now I remember. Smile

A good name helps, to give a project 'personality' .
Yabby, a 'Jigger' around here is a lure jerked up and down. Most icefishers here are jiggers. (do I get a joke?)

If you unroll an old 1/2A dacron line spool, it is 65ft. Call it, 30ft stretchy lines.
Last time out, 44ft braided 10# and what a difference ! (BlackWidow,5-4)

I applaud your goals of line length/1/2A/flat plate aerodynamics. Uncharted territory.
Thanks,
'spar'tan,
Dave

P.S. I like this CEF, glad I joined !

Yabby Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:25 pm

HalfaDave wrote:
Yabby, a 'Jigger' around here is a lure jerked up and down. Most icefishers here are jiggers. (do I get a joke?)

Goodaye All,

Jigger is another referemce for a 'bike' as in motorcycle https://thesaurus.plus/related/bike/jigger but my background sees it as any motor powered thing, bike, car, boat, model planes, used for the purpose of motorsport, not meant as a run of the mill transport. I would expect a jigger to be something that is modded and really goes. A jigger is something I would be proud of. If talking to a group of bike racers I wouldnt not refer to my bike as a TZ 350 but as my Jigger. So, no, it wasnt a joke about ice fishermen. Lol. and we also describe Jigging as fishing using a jig.

Im sure I speak not only for myself, but Im also pleased you joined the Forum This Site Rocks!

and brought your dry sense of humour and joy of the unusual and eagerness / appreciation for a challenge / something that hasnt been done before and not just accepting that it cant be done because its not done often. Beer Cheers

Yep, braided 44 ft. 10lb gives you so much more sky to fly in and makes it so much more fun. Try using 42 or 52 foot 8 though steel lines. I reckon if you got 42 ft braid working, steel will go better again. I went Dacron, Braid, steel, braid, and now Im with steel lines for good, I really like them and believe I can fly longer lines with steel than braid. Many of the conventional designs for half -A that I have tried so far dont fly long lines that well, or maybe I dont fly them well, or maybe you need absolutely calm days. Hence my trying to arrive at a design for slab profile that can. I reckon Im nearly there. Its not mainstream thats for sure, but learnt/learning a lot on the way about CG, where the mass of the wing area is located, the benefit of a fuse or surface similar when overhead, swept back wings, thin wing tips for stability and balance but not such that the plane hinges in windy conditions. lots of little things. Advantage of building cheap, slab, profile style. Lots of the bits and pieces have been learnt from posts and others ideas on this forum.

Yabby

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