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Post  balogh Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:46 am

Sosam117 aka Mike was kind enough to sell and ship to me one of his masterpiece RC carbs for the TeeDee010, and I bench tested it among rather rudimentary conditions in my garage. Several videos shot, with better demonstration of the idle than this one (my primitive pushrod needs improvement for higher sensitivity). Will definitely build in my next project with nano-servo actuation.

Here is the setup:

COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 20240315

(I add the aluminum sheet apron - cut from a beer can -  on the tank top with 010 and 020 TeeDee engines whose exhaust openings are facing the tank, to prevent the tank from melting)


Conclusions:

1. The peak rpm is the same 27.2k+ as with the stock 010 carb
2. Smooth control, and low idle achievable - stops when fully closed
3. Plumber's teflon tape is to be used so as to improve sealing between the retaining nut bottom and the carb body top.







Thank you, Mike/sosam117 a bunch again
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Post  sosam117 Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:58 am

Thank you Andras! (balogh)
Nice short video of my little .010 carb.

Could maybe punch out some round gaskets to do the sealing of the possible air leaks instead of the Teflon tape?

I just don't have any of the newer "smart" stuff to do videos.

I'm in my mid 60's and just trying to keep up with what I have.
Phone on the wall, answering machine, DVD record/play (to record TV shows).
Stuff from the 90's

Mike
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Post  balogh Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:10 am

Yes Mike a plastic washer that endures the abrasion when the nut is spanned would do..but the teflon ribbon is good enough.
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Post  sosam117 Sat Mar 16, 2024 7:31 am

balogh wrote:Yes Mike a plastic washer that endures the abrasion when the nut is spanned would do..but the teflon ribbon is good enough.

Are you going to make a longer video to show it idling?

Thanks,
Mike
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Post  davidll1984 Sat Mar 16, 2024 7:47 am

Sosam117 aka Mike Superb work making such a small piece I imagine that drilling the hole for the spray bar was not easy. It Seems very effective This would be perfect for my micro tigremoth project
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Post  getback Sat Mar 16, 2024 7:54 am

Thanks for taking the time and testing the carb. I may be able to get one next round ,got to get the $$$$ together first ! Very Happy And Thank You for offerings these up to us first Mike !  St.Pats Beers
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Post  balogh Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:39 am

A new experimental setup, video comes soon.

COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 17105910
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Post  balogh Sat Mar 16, 2024 10:35 am

I mounted the engine on my RC Sharkface, and with hand-actuated throttle arm, I shot another video, that this time better demonstrates the idle rpm near 12k (near the end of the vid) ,  and peak rpm-s (this time a bit above 25k, due probably to a somewhat richer carb setting than in the video yesterday where the engine peaked at 27.2k) the RC carb is capable of maintaining.  Congratulations, sosam117, a masterpiece of little RC carb!!!

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Post  robot797 Sat Mar 16, 2024 2:47 pm

oh wow those are some great results
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Post  balogh Sat Mar 16, 2024 3:00 pm

robot797 wrote:oh wow those are some great results

Thank you!
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Post  rdw777 Sat Mar 16, 2024 5:28 pm

Very nice result with the .010 carb Andras Very Happy …. Do you think you will incorporate it on Sharkface?…. Or maybe a new project?….. Having a throttle on small R/C is a blast!! … It adds a totally new dimension…

Wonderful job on fabricating the carb and other accessories you have made sosam Thumbs Up …Hats off to you Sir!

Robert
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Post  balogh Sat Mar 16, 2024 5:44 pm

Thank you, Robert,

Yes, with the throttle arm dropped 180 degrees down from it present upward position I.e hanging down, I may find it  OK to run the pushrod across the firewall and connect it to a 3rd servo...this would be the most imminent use of the carb, but in addition I am thinking of building another, COX 010 TeeDee driven speed plane similar to the Nano of Brad, where the carb would also be used.
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Post  rdw777 Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:22 pm

Sounds like a great plan Andras, Shark face would be a a good test plane to get used to handling the throttled .010….. For the throttle pushrod on my Ace Little Stick and Pageboy
I used Teflon tubing that was meant to be a dispenser for CA glue for the sleeve…. A piece of .008” metal guitar string for the rod…. A piece of paper clip wire to engage the throttle arm with a a soldered brass tube coupling to hold them together….Easy to snake around the balloon tank with this pushrod and very friction free….

COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 5c529e10
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Post  1/2A Nut Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:13 pm


Your vid does a great job of showing what the tiny air choke and NV assembly can do.
I bought one from Mike, have not messed with it yet. A servo will be able to lock in a good idle.
A full wave tuned pipe would be fun to try with the .010 RC carb.

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Post  balogh Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:33 am

Thanks Bob, good ideas for the details...yes, I also use 1.5mm pushrods in plastic sleeves...but when it comes to soldering, I think twice and stay with plyers to bend the Z on the rod end.( I am not much of a solder-master) ..and just another good advantageous use of our favorite balloon tank St.Pats Beers

Thanks Brad, I am looking forward to seeing your experiment with it!  In retrospect, I could have reached an even lower idle  had I set the NV for the highest 27k rpm first! But like always, I was rushing to the disadvantage of the results..The 25k peak shows the setting was rich and this killed the flame at a higher idle than would with the correct setting...nevertheless, I was surprised to see how well a tiny SPI engine reacts to carb throttling/air choking..one would think that air choking is inefficient with the reduced airflow through the carb made up by the SPI air intake...and a tuned pipe would be fantastic! Have you seen a pipe so small as what would work on a 010 COX?
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Post  sosam117 Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:14 am

davidll1984 wrote:Sosam117 aka Mike Superb work making such a small piece I imagine that drilling the hole for the spray bar was not easy. It Seems very effective This would be perfect for my micro tigremoth project

Drilling that small hole for the spray bar "IS" the hardest part of any of the Tee Dee carburetors, as you have to get the location just right.
The drill size I have to use is a number 76 for the Tee Dee .010 carb. Center drill size .020
It is a 50/50 chance of either breaking the drill or drilling the hole.

The Tee Dee .020 drill size is # 68 which is the .031 center drill.
The Tee Dee .049/.051 drill size is #56 which is the .047 center drill.

I have a center drill set that I use for starting the drilling on the initial hole.
The center drill number is the triple zero size and that special drill costs about $12.00.

Of course, I can only find that size (diameter .020") in a set and the set costs me about $63.00 before shipping.

COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 Img_0262
COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 Img_0263
COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 Img_0264

Reason I purchased the set is that I am then able to start the hole for the spray bar location correctly on the .010 / .020 / and the .049~.051 using the correct size center drill to start the hole without the finished drill walking.


As you can see on the outside of the case shows the different drill center sizes.
Trying to get the sizes below the "#0" is hard to find.

COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 Drill_10

Thanks,

Mike
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Post  sosam117 Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:45 am

I have tried to do a silencer for the .010 but it just doesn't work out very well.

COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 005_co18
COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 006_co13

The 1st problem is the welding of the thin-walled tubing to the collector.
I have a Map gas torch and by the time I have the aluminum parts heated up enough to insert the aluminum rod to try to weld the parts together, my parts (thin wall tubing) melt down.
Now "if" I had a TIG welder available to me, and it only heats up a very small area, I could get the parts welded together.
I've tried thicker tubing but then the exhaust diameter is less than 3mm. I like it to be as big as possible?

Anyway, the "one" I have on my engine is the only one that I think is good enough (for my quality standards) that made it after countless tries.
And it seemed to bring down the RPM a bit.
Probably like balogh says about the Tee Dee being a SPI.
On mine, when throttling down it stops most of the time. SPI on this engine causing the problem?

That is why I have not been posting and selling the .010 silencer.
Also, it is more of an oil collector than a silencer.
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Post  robot797 Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:47 am

that is just awsome

to bad its to much work to build them

ps is my throttle still on hold?
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Post  davidll1984 Sun Mar 17, 2024 9:19 am

sosam117 wrote:I have tried to do a silencer for the .010 but it just doesn't work out very well.

COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 005_co18
COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 006_co13

The 1st problem is the welding of the thin-walled tubing to the collector.
I have a Map gas torch and by the time I have the aluminum parts heated up enough to insert the aluminum rod to try to weld the parts together, my parts (thin wall tubing) melt down.
Now "if" I had a TIG welder available to me, and it only heats up a very small area, I could get the parts welded together.
I've tried thicker tubing but then the exhaust diameter is less than 3mm. I like it to be as big as possible?

Anyway, the "one" I have on my engine is the only one that I think is good enough (for my quality standards) that made it after countless tries.
And it seemed to bring down the RPM a bit.
Probably like balogh says about the Tee Dee being a SPI.
On mine, when throttling down it stops most of the time. SPI on this engine causing the problem?

That is why I have not been posting and selling the .010 silencer.
Also, it is more of an oil collector than a silencer.
I opted for a less expensive solution than welding the parts my collector is built like cox did for their model the tube is insert insert fit tight And we then have to rivet it into place from the inside To do this you need to build a tool like this  COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 17106810
COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 17106811  You just need a kind of small cone-shaped tip to cut it very short, it's difficult and weld it onto the hardened piece of metal.
The diameter of the punch tool must be just large enough to be inserted into the collector. I place it on two blocks and use a hammer to hit the tube a few times to deform the tube from the inside to rivet it in place like a rivets it is important to machine the tube well so that it creates a Good tight seal at first  
Once riveted in place all is good and and seal Perfect save time and $$ make this tool You will thank me later Hand Shake
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Post  sosam117 Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:26 am

robot797 wrote:that is just awsome

to bad its to much work to build them

ps is my throttle still on hold?

Yes, it is robot797 ---- waiting on your March 23 date. (don't worry yours's is guaranteed).
Making a couple of more .010 carbs.
I have made gaskets from Enya gasket material (0.200 thickness)
Balogh used some "Teflon" tape (for pluming) to possibly seal leakage around the carb and needle valve assembly.

My original, I had no leakage problem, that I noticed?
The Enya gasket material is like a compressed sponge. After it absorbs a liquid, it expands to seal.

I'll mail out the seals to the other guys that already purchased the .010 carburetor in a small envelope.
Still have the U.S. Postal receipts that have the mailing address on it for the ones that purchased the .010 carbs.
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Post  sosam117 Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:39 am

davidll1984 wrote:
I opted for a less expensive solution than welding the parts my collector is built like cox did for their model the tube is insert insert fit tight And we then have to rivet it into place from the inside To do this you need to build a tool like this  COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 17106810
COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 17106811  You just need a kind of small cone-shaped tip to cut it very short, it's difficult and weld it onto the hardened piece of metal.
The diameter of the punch tool must be just large enough to be inserted into the collector. I place it on two blocks and use a hammer to hit the tube a few times to deform the tube from the inside to rivet it in place like a rivets it is important to machine the tube well so that it creates a Good tight seal at first  
Once riveted in place all is good and and seal Perfect save time and $$ make this tool You will thank me later Hand Shake  

I still think the problem with a muffler on the .010 is the SPI?
It seemed to bring down the RPM a bit ( about 1,000 or so).
Probably like balogh says about the Tee Dee being a SPI.
On mine, when throttling down it stops most of the time. SPI on this engine causing the problem?

That is why I have not been posting and selling the .010 silencer.
Also, it is more of an oil collector than a silencer.

The one I have; I did bell the end of the tubing then slipped it in on the inside diameter hole (tube just long enough to fit into the center hole where the cylinder would fit), then pulled it as tight as I could through and out the other side to were the tubing was sticking out and then I tried the "RED" Loctite to keep it in place?
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Post  davidll1984 Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:43 pm

I understand but surely you could adjust the position of the tube so that the oil comes out well I believe that the loss of performance vs the noise reduction can be an acceptable compromise as long as the plane is flying On my model the oil comes out well the tube is of almost equal size to that. Internal  diameter COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 17106910
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Post  davidll1984 Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:17 pm

1/2A Nut wrote:
Your vid does a great job of showing what the tiny air choke and NV assembly can do.
I bought one from Mike, have not messed with it yet. A servo will be able to lock in a good idle.
A full wave tuned pipe would be fun to try with the .010 RC carb.

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I was also wondering if using a tuned pipe chamber would be beneficial And compensate for the performance loss caused by the SPI For example, the tune pipe could help to release the gases and produce a positive effect on the engine power ?? Without having a gain but making the lost performance less and in the end the engine has the same performance as without the silencer or very close I must say that a thousand revolutions on an engine which does more than 20 thousand I believe that a little loss is acceptable an engine so small with a good silencer would be very silent and inaudible from inside the house
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Post  1/2A Nut Mon Mar 18, 2024 1:17 am

Oddly enough with SPI engines tested / flown to date all performed well enough with a tuned pipe.
I have many 1/2A car engines .05/.06/.07/.09 all designed to function with pressure taps and
short to med wave car pipes. I found the car engines to work well with a full wave Profi tuned pipe.

Tested TD's .049,.050,.051 and Reed .049 / .051 tend to be useful if the right prop load is used for
static testing and flying. Piped TD .051 made 33.1k / 4x4.5 vs 30.5k open exhaust 4.1x4.1N unloaded.

TD .010 with a full wave tuned pipe would use the Profi .8cc pipe measurements reduced to .17cc
Manifold / header and pipe would not use up much aluminum. The extra dab of power offsets
some of the drag and weight with oil spray under control.  

COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 Td_n_t13

COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 010_4c10


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Post  balogh Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:00 am

rdw777 wrote:Sounds like a great plan Andras, Shark face would be a a good test plane to get used to handling the throttled .010….. For the throttle pushrod on my Ace Little Stick and Pageboy
I used Teflon tubing that was meant to be a dispenser for CA glue for the sleeve…. A piece of .008” metal guitar string for the rod…. A piece of paper clip wire to engage the throttle arm with a a soldered brass tube coupling to hold them together….Easy to snake around the balloon tank with this pushrod and very friction free….

.....

Voila, Robert, I have integrated the 010 RC carb into my Sharkface, and it is ready to go:

Instead of soldering the Z-s to the pushrod ends, I made the pushrod out of 2 parts, each having a Z bent at its one end. I united the 2 parts at the free ends with the help of a screwed pushrod-end piece (see screw head near the arm of the grey throttle servo), that also allows for the telescopic raw adjustment of total rod length, before the servo arm position is trimmed.

COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 20240317

At the carb end I have bent a generously wide Z in the pushrod end,  to help the rod clear the engine backplate without any bending tension caused by the carb arm being nearer to the engine centerline:

COX 010 TeeDee with RC carb, courtesy sosam 117 20240316


Last edited by balogh on Mon Mar 18, 2024 6:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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