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Old MccCoy and K&B

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Post  gcb Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:53 pm

@Godsey3.0 wrote: I guess you just make sure you seal that spot well. I may have to just wing it. Ha! Pun.


WING IT! Cool

Thumbs up on that one!

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Post  Godsey3.0 Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:56 pm

gcb: I will not actually start all of these planes at once. I know I made it seem like that. But I will build one and then move on to the next. I also do not really need a trainer as far as handling. I can handle the planes. Me and my dad were just looking for something to help get used to the pull and so he had something easier to fly.

shawn: So you actually put the sheeting over the tube? And you pretty much packed the space between the tube and the sheeting to get a good contact?

Edit: Wait. You put the blocks in first to help hold the tube or to help set yourself up for a good seal. Then sheeting over the top with a hole to get the tube.
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Post  Ken Cook Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:09 pm

If you know how the Flite Streak is built, it's typical to any plane that has 1/4" spars high and low. I cut the front of the rib off right in the center of the spar notch. I cut I believe 4 of them. I then used a metal die punch that was 1 1/4" and cut the holes all at once in the half ribs. I slid them all on the tube and glued the entire unit in as a assembly. My bladder tube was down from the top of the wing a little less than 1/4". I then took a small block of soft balsa drilled a 1/2" hole in it and glued it directly on top of the tube. I sanded and conformed this soft balsa to the shape of the airfoil and glued a small piece of sheeting about 2" x 2" over this sanded and shaped block. I did this only for the covering and not for structural integrity. I then smeared epoxy around it as the tube is slightly below the covering. Ken
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Post  Godsey3.0 Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:15 pm

Ok. I thought that you had a huge chunk of balsa (block) glued to the tube and glued to the ribs and spars and such. I was thinking that that would be rather unnecessary and heavy. But you pretty much got a hunk of balsa and put it on the tube. Then sheeted over it and attached the balsa rimming the hole in the tube to the sheeting. You essentially made a tunnel into the tube with the block. Does that seem right? Cause if it does I will seriously jump with glee. I hate not understanding something. My heart actually sped up a few moments ago when I realized how the mount in the Demon and the Voodoo worked. The support block that goes between the center ribs had me confused. I realized that it goes in and then the spars (mounting beams) attach to it. Then more balsa blocks go on the outside and then you make it all shapely and appealing.
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Post  Ken Cook Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:28 pm

You got it!!!!!!!!. Here is the situation, every plane is different. The Voodoo is smaller than the Demon in thickness. It makes it harder to put a tube within it as the plane was never designed for it. Ken
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Post  Godsey3.0 Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:01 pm

Shocked Ha! I had to get it eventually! Thank you very much.

I have a question. I saw the email sent by a Cook to black hawk regarding the Demon kit. I know there is a Kenneth Cook and a Shawn Cook. The email to black hawk was from Kenneth and the writer talked as if they were the father. I say this because they saw "I can't believe my son could fly it." And your username is Shawn Cook. Any you talk as if you are the father. I am curious, which of you is the father? If you did not send that email then totally disregard this. It may just be the belligerent writings of a delirious teenager.
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Post  Godsey3.0 Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:04 pm

Rusty: I believe I have seen that picture before. You have it in a black mesh like material. Dacron to the back of wing. It is a good way to do it. It would avoid using a tube.
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Post  Ken Cook Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:33 pm

Rolla, I'm Ken and my son is Shawn. Shawn actually signed onto the forum here. I tried to sign on under my own name and the forum already recognizes my e-mail as already being used. Not knowing how to get around this I left it as his name. I myself have been self taught when it comes to computers. I have to ask him any questions as my patience level decreases and my blood pressure increases when it comes to computer literacy. I wrote that letter to Larry Rice from BlackHawk a few years ago. I wrote it via e-mail and Larry used it as a testimonial. The engine I put on my Black Hawk Demon was just way over the top. I had a extremely powerful and rare F2D engine on it. It was insanely fast. I now have a scratch built Demon with extended booms that is flying at 118 mph on 60' lines. The Blackhawk was flying at almost 120 on 50' lines. I wasn't aware of that letter until recently when a club member brought it to my attention. My son Shawn rarely posts on here as I've pretty much been the one doing all the blabbering. Ken
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Post  Godsey3.0 Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:50 am

Ok. I was just curious. I have also seen you on stunthanger.
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Post  Godsey3.0 Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:38 pm

Does anyone know what the spacing should be between two ribs on the Voodoo? The whole wing is 36 inches. But it is not shown in full no the plan. If I had rib spacing I could possibly get it printed correctly.
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Post  Ken Cook Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:21 pm

Rolla, The inboard wing is longer than the outboard wing. While the inboard measures about 17 1/8" the outboard wing measures approx 16 1/4". This is c/L of nacelle to outboard ribs (not wing tips). Therefore the rib spacing isn't the same throughout the wing panels. The inboard wing has about 2" in between ribs while the outboard wing has approx 2 1/4". The most critical is the bay that was designed for the tank. Although most tanks are generally 2" wide, they're not always 2" wide meaning they could finish at 2 1/18" or 2 1/4". This would require you to do some body and fender work on the tank and crush it a bit to fit it into that space. I like to go a bit wider to allow for that. The Voodoo was designed around the Veco wedge tank and therefore has the proper rib spacing. The reasoning behind the different size panels is due to the inboard wing flying faster than the outboard wing, hence the need for less wing tip weight. The larger inboard wing essentially develops more lift due to it technically flying faster. Ken
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Post  Godsey3.0 Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:53 pm

Ok. That will help. I was thinking about buying a red head McCoy off of ebay for this. I can get a buy it now shipped for around $26.

It is here. I was wanting to see if you saw anything wrong with it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-McCOY-35-Red-Head-Model-Airplane-Engine-with-Good-Compression-/130736178052?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e707bc384

Here is another. It is really dirty.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110926923247&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

And if there was a good .19 size wing I would get this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251117999724&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en


Edit: I do believe one of those nva assemblies was broken. The fuel nipple was missing. Also if someone else on here is selling one I would be interested. Does not have to be McCoy. Fox, OS, ST, and any others. Probably avoid the last two in 35 size due to power. I will have this plane tamed down. Rich. 5% nitro.

Also, can I get Fox Super fuel and run it in Fox and McCoy engines? It is 29% Castor and 5% nitro. I recall Ken saying not to run 29% oil in the Fox engines.
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Post  Ken Cook Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:03 pm

Rolla, you want to run high castor in Fox engines. If I made mention of not using it, it was how I run my engines and my engines only. I would never advocate someone not to run high oil content in their iron piston /steel sleeve engine. I use 22% 50-50 oil in my Fox's. I also fit my piston sleeve assemblies by lapping them in. Fox Superfuel is a high quality fuel for the Fox and Mccoy's or any engine that has an iron piston. Engines like the OS MAX-35's even though are iron piston, prefer all castor but usually no more than 25%. Ken


Last edited by Ken Cook on Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post  Ken Cook Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:13 pm

The Mccoy line of engines was a recent topic on here a few weeks back. Although some work and others including myself have had success using them, I no longer use these engines. They're an inexpensive line of engines and certainly didn't come without problems. I've bought many of items including engines from Ebay. I have to say other than 1 or 2 incidents, I feel that many people are still honest. There are those that really just don't know as well and this can be a problem.

I can say this, their definition of good compression and mine are like night and day. Without having those particular engines in hand, I seriously would reconsider buying them. Gaskets now are becoming available as I've seen rebuild kits. The kits though costs as much as I would pay for one of those engines. The pistons were made of a powdered metal compressed under pressure and subjected to high heat. They eventually fail, not all of them but the majority of them. This can happen with one run out of the package and I can tesitify to it as it happened to me twice.

Kim had posted his success and I contributed to the success's we had using Fox.35's. These would cost you probably the same. The engine is still in production today with parts support. I can only tell you that this engine is going to stand the test of time using the proper fuel and props. They come with their idiosyncrasies as well. More models have been designed around a Fox.35 than any model ever. Ken
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Post  Godsey3.0 Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:35 pm

Well, first attempt at making a con rod was a failure. I was grinding it and had made huge progress before I realized that I had been holding it at an angle. It ended up being junk. On to the next one.
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Post  Ken Cook Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:47 am

Rolla, did you try and request a conrod on the other forums in the classifieds? Trying to make a part like that isn't a simple task. The alloys used as well are pretty superior. The holes in the ends for wrist pin and crankpin are typically not drilled but reamed. They're also reamed parallel with each other. In the event, you do get it to work, the longevity of it may be short lived. If your using aluminum, it probably more than likely will break due to work hardening. The other problem would be galling and seizing on the crankpin. If the engine is good aside from the rod, you certainly could find a rod for probably little expense.

I don't know too much in the area of greenheads, I do know that some parts were interchangeable with Mccoy engines. I'm not sure of the major internals though. I think it would be worth a shot though to ask on the other forums. Ken
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Post  gcb Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:09 am

Fuels, metals and such:

Old iron pistons in steel cylinders run well for a long time unless you get a lean run. Too lean and the engine heats up. Part of the cooling is provided by unburned fuel (oil) so less fuel, less cooling. As the engine heats up the piston expands. Tighter fit between piston and cylinder causes increased friction and more heat. Castor oil (and some GOOD synthetics) gums up and becomes a varnish which can slow down or stop the engine. At minimum it will continue providing some lubrication. In similar situations with most synthetics found in our fuels, the lube will burn off as fuel providing no lubrication. This situation is called thermal runaway and can ruin an engine in a single run.
That is why iron/steel setups need castor.

Most iron/steel setups run well on 20%-22% lube. The Fox .35 is a little different in that it is a maximum engine in a small case. Most use 25% to 29% lube for them. The McCoy .35 needs high lube because of the metallurgy, I'm told.

If iron/steel engines are fairly new, a lube of half castor and half synthetic seems popular. As the engine gets almost worn out, all castor can be used to provide a varnish seal on the porous iron (mehanite) piston. Fox Superfuel was advertised at one time for this purpose. If you acquire a iron/steel engine it is a good idea to use all-castor to maintain this seal. Running any synthetic in your engine will remove this seal and you can lose a LOT of compression. You can usually regain the seal by running all castor for awhile.

Modern ABC, ABN, AAC, etc. usually have a characteristic that if you set it too lean it will expand the cylinder more than the piston and be a little bit forgiving on wear. They usually will not form a good varnish seal on the piston because they use a high silicon aluminum for the piston. When it's worn out, it's worn out. :-(

George

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Post  Kim Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:40 am

Rolla !!!!!!! What a thread you started with your two old engines! I'm 'bout to run out of printer ink from copying stuff like the above post !
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Post  Godsey3.0 Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:12 pm

I did ask on RC Groups. Several people just told me to make one. No one popped up saying any parts were interchangeable or if they had any. I was using iron to make the rod.
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Post  Godsey3.0 Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:13 pm

And that is some very good info gcb!
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Post  gcb Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:55 pm

@Godsey3.0 wrote:I did ask on RC Groups. Several people just told me to make one. No one popped up saying any parts were interchangeable or if they had any. I was using iron to make the rod.

I just checked and someone is selling a K&B .19 parts engine on the bay that has the conrod:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-K-B-Torpedo-19-Model-Airplane-Engine-parts-missing-/290752867535

Good luck.

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Post  Godsey3.0 Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:58 pm

I saw that as well. I am not sure if I will get it. The con rod on it is liable to be wore out. Or it could be pristine. I was looking at the picture and thought I saw a gap between the crank pin and the rod. I may just be paranoid! tongue
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Post  RknRusty Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:35 pm

@Godsey3.0 wrote:I saw that as well. I am not sure if I will get it. The con rod on it is liable to be wore out. Or it could be pristine. I was looking at the picture and thought I saw a gap between the crank pin and the rod. I may just be paranoid! tongue
Yeah, looks pretty rough.

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Post  Godsey3.0 Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:40 pm

Has anyone here ordered from Barry Baxter? Do you have to add $9 to the plan price? If so then it would be $23 for one set of plans! If that is how it works then I honestly think that I will never be able to order from him. Sad Which is a real bummer. I love several of his plans.
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Post  Ken Cook Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:39 pm

The site states free shipping for folded plans and $9.00 for rolled plans. He does provide contact info at the extreme bottom of the order page. Ken
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